Women Characters?

(SPC. Angseth) #41

You are aware that Unreal Tournament 3 has female characters with their own models/textures and animations as recent as 2 years ago? powered by the Unreal engine.

Same with Saints Row 2 and Red Faction Guerrilla.

Well, at least one recent game coming out has female characters, which is Lost Planet 2, Ill be playing that.

Developers just have to admit it the truth, females are being excluded for simple reasons, there is no “technical” limitation whatsoever. And if there was? make females from the start.

(Nail) #42

Don’t like it, don’t buy it. It’s that simple, but to come here and insult the developers intelligence, why that’s just idiotic.

(SPC. Angseth) #43

It was a general comment about developers and a true one as well, there is no technical limitation to producing a different model, skin and animation, considering its been done many times before.

Can’t work around it? simple, exclude it then.

That sounds like they can’t come up with a viable solution, so its just better to can it.

(Grimi) #44

[QUOTE=SPC. Angseth;221704]I call BS and you know why? we had female character models in games like Unreal Tournament and Quake 3, 10 years ago and that never surfaced as a problem.

Are you telling me developers are stupid to implement this into games now? when back then it was normal?

Why didn’t they make all the models female to begin with then? why pick males?

I got an answer for that, and its one that can be used every time a developer has to make up a “technical” excuse for the exclusion of women in games: biased sexism, plain and simple.

Recently, Rufian Games, the developers behind Crackdown 2 gave a similar excuse for the exclusion of females in the sequel, its clear its becoming a trend to do so.

Its too bad the mentality of the average gamer is around the 13 years of age, because they can’t think of women as important characters for storytelling and gameplay, no, it always has to be about sexualising them and if not, exclude them.

Looking at the few games that DO include female characters, it amazes me how developers can come out and say it is a matter of cost, money or developer time to add a model and skin variation, I guess in those other games that do have them apparently that never surfaced as a problem.

So please, no matter what excuse the developers come up with Im not gonna take their word for it, there are ways around to work it out if its truly a technical problem (which its not) if they really cared to add them (which they don’t).[/QUOTE]

First of all it’s not down to if it can be done or not. It’s a matter of the time and cost to get it done right. A female would differ from a male by the look and with todays advanced hit boxes the female and male hit boxes would also be different, making this not just an issue of appearance, movement and action animations but also the balance of the game.

And why not all females? If you havn’t noticed the situation for females around the world has improved alot during our lifetime, meaning back in the days when noone of us was here to decide all the rules, men were the soldiers and the workers. And females stayed home to take care of the children, the house and make life easier for the men. When the first games came out most of the soldiers were still men, and if someone had by then made a game where you shot females they would probably have been hated around the world as people didn’t tolerate attacks on females. Most games are based on reality and even if our goal is to have everyone being treated equally no matter thier gender, that is not the case of the world yet. Atleast not in every kind of job and in every house around the world.

(Nail) #45

it’s not that it’s different, but that it requires 6 animations instead of 3 and doubles the memory in game needed, plus the time to develop the seperate animations and body movements. How many commercially successful games have you developed ? Just wondering where you get your technical knowledge of developing games with the id Tech 4 engine comes from, now you’ve professed to be an expert on the technical limitations.

or in other words, go away troll

(SPC. Angseth) #46

[QUOTE=Grimi;221713]First of all it’s not down to if it can be done or not. It’s a matter of the time and cost to get it done right. So…the only solution is basically go all out male then? right got it. A female would differ from a male by the look and with todays advanced hit boxes the female and male hit boxes would also be different, making this not just an issue of appearance, movement and action animations but also the balance of the game. Well, Ive never seen this kind of problem with games like Saints Row 2, where each gender has their own voices, animations and clothing options, Im guessing they had all the money, time and effort to pull it off, or maybe just maybe it was something they wanted to put in and cared for, no matter how challenging it was.

And why not all females? If you havn’t noticed the situation for females around the world has improved alot during our lifetime, meaning back in the days when noone of us was here to decide all the rules men were the soldiers and workers. And females stayed home to take care of the children, the house and make life easier for the men. When the first games came out most of the soldiers were still men, and if someone had by then made a game where you shot females they would probably have been hated around the world as people didn’t tolerate attacks on females. Apparently, that hasn’t really changed much either, let me know when I can see a playable female soldier on Call of Duty that I can shoot. Most games are based on reality and even if our goal is to have everyone being treated equally no matter thier gender, that is not the case of the world yet. Ok fine their based in reality, let me know when you see a 2 foot tall male carrying 10 weapons with a full body armor who knows how to deactivate bombs, drive tanks and planes and lift heavy objects that are 50 times larger than their size. We can all take for granted that, but something as simple as having a female character apparently isn’t. Atleast not in every kind of job and in every house around the world. And how does this relate to fiction? games are fiction, no matter how “realistic” they may look. Ever heard of books? their another form of fiction.[/QUOTE]

My reply in bold.

(Reanimator) #47

I generally don’t give a shit what gender I play as long as my character looks cool, or the gameplay is good.

(SPC. Angseth) #48

[QUOTE=Nail;221714]it’s not that it’s different, but that it requires 6 animations instead of 3 and doubles the memory in game needed, plus the time to develop the seperate animations and body movements. How many commercially successful games have you developed ? Just wondering where you get your technical knowledge of developing games with the id Tech 4 engine comes from, now you’ve professed to be an expert on the technical limitations.

or in other words, go away troll[/QUOTE]

Don’t like it? don’t post.

Ive made legitimate posts about my opinion on the subject numerous times, to be saying Im a troll is not only moronic it is also ignorant.

How many commercially successful games have I developed? none, but seeing what developers pull off in games these days, its beyond me how an extra model, animation and sound is way harder than anything else involved.

And I have a brother in the gaming industry, in a very old but renowned studio if I may add.
You don’t have to work in a bank to know how banks work.

(Nail) #49

“its beyond me” now, you got it, plus multi posting the same old is trolling

(signofzeta) #50

lol, having female characters in all the games, including sports games, is like having clean air in every country.

Where is

Atlanta Dream
Chicago Sky
Connecticut Sun
Indiana Fever
New York Liberty
Washington Mystics
Los Angeles Sparks
Minnesota Lynx
Phoenix Mercury
San Antonio Silver Stars
Seattle Storm
Tulsa Shock

in the Basketball sim video games?

(SPC. Angseth) #51

Yea, too bad I didn’t make this thread.

Guess you should dismiss it too as someone trolling too.

(DarkangelUK) #52

How much customization did you have with those games?

(signofzeta) #53

hmm, same reasons/excuses however you want to put it.

Also http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23160

Nothing to do with gaming, but it is quite interesting.

(Grimi) #54

In this case they didn’t focus on the double-gender option. Don’t take it as an assault on females.

Most games are based on reality. Some tries to reflect it, others just use it as a base and then twist it with thier imagination to create a unique and cool world that brings interest to it. When making a game it’s not going for 100% or 0% realism.

Also what is books?

(SPC. Angseth) #55

Let me give you a Youtube link and see for yourself.

You can look up the others if you like, the customization in Saints Row 2 is very, very deep.

(Reanimator) #56

THQ is a much larger company, plus the graphics for SR2 are sub-par, and if you didn’t listen female customization will most likely be a huge consideration for Brink2 or DLC (citation needed on DLC). If SD put’s in females now you’ll be more disappointed with the lack of customization and detail then if you had been patient.
edit Just looked up THQ’s company stats, and in 2007 they had over 2100 employees.

(SPC. Angseth) #57

[QUOTE=Reanimator;221730]THQ is a much larger company, plus the graphics for SR2 are sub-par, and if you didn’t listen female customization will most likely be a huge consideration for Brink2 or DLC (citation needed on DLC). If SD put’s in females now you’ll be more disappointed with the lack of customization and detail then if you had been patient.
edit Just looked up THQ’s company stats, and in 2007 they had over 2100 employees.[/QUOTE]

THQ publishes Saints Row, as well as others like DarkSiders and Red Faction Guerrilla.

SR and RFG are made by Volition, who are relatively a small studio.

I will be playing Brink, I like customization no matter what, but if there are females it makes it all better to me. And as you can see Im a huge advocate for gender diversity in games.

The only shooter that I know of released this year to include customization with females is Lost Planet 2, would be nice if Brink had that post release.

(Nail) #58

I take exception to these quotes of yours

1: I call BS

2: I got an answer for that, and its one that can be used every time a developer has to make up a “technical” excuse for the exclusion of women in games: biased sexism, plain and simple.

3: there are ways around to work it out if its truly a technical problem (which its not)

4: You don’t have to work in a bank to know how banks work.

1: you don’t know how much work is involved

2: absolutely insulting to the company and the people employed there, shame on you

3: you once again are speaking from ignorance

4: this absolutely proves you have no clue, tell me how a bank decides who is entitled to what interest rate and why, with a list of the criteria used, K ?

I understand you may be frustrated, but don’t blindly accuse people of lying and sexism without being able to back it up with technical expertise

(LyndonL) #59

Hehe it’s getting a bit firey in here :slight_smile:

I want female characters too so that my mrs will be a happier camper when I force her to play with me. But she is starting to realise that female models aren’t a necessity, just a nicety.

I have a proposition for you: Let’s all just support the hell out of Brink, and tell everyone we know about it and get them to buy it. That way they will make a sequel and put in female models, since they won’t have had their time tied up with SMART systems etc etc. Everyone wins, and we get more content :smiley:

(light_sh4v0r) #60

I hardly consider female characters more content. You’ll maybe notice the difference for about half an hour, after that you’ll just be shooting em like they are guys and Splash Damage wasted a lot of resources on something that makes so little difference.