Will Dazzeler be reintroduced alongside Thunder?

(Reddeadcap) #1

In closed pre alpha footage of Dirty Bomb, a merc by the name of Dazzler was around, who had both Frag Grenades and Flashbang Grenades.

After a while these two roles were split into Thunder and Fragger, while Fragger keeps the obvious Frag Grenades Thunder used Concussion Grenades, in late alpha stages by the looks of older threads Thunders grenades would decrease players mouse sensitivity and movement speed, now judging from a video I’ve come across they seem to work more like flash bangs, blinding the player who sees them. Do you think it would be better for Splash Damage to keep thunder the way he used to be, decreasing player mobility caught in his grenade blast radius and reintroduce Dazzler as a flash bang focused assault?

(birdhorse) #2

Yes totally agree, flash bang assault class (no smoke), but primary weap should be either a LMG or rfile, plus pistol as standard. No double primary’s.

(Eox) #3

I think a grenade decreasing your mouse sensitivity and movement speed can be frustrating IMO, giving a player the feel to be harmless and the false impresson to die in a cheap way while it does not really change a lot from Fragger’s playstyle. Flashbangs would probably be a safer choice for Splash Damage in their player relations.

I don’t really want to see stun grenades reintroduced though at the end I probably wouldn’t mind. I prefer the Flashbang concept.

(TheOrangePhantome) #4

Nope cus as we all know he was split up into 2 mercs: Fragger and Thunder so i don’t think they’ll bring him into the game.

(Reddeadcap) #5

[quote=“Eox;73087”]I think a grenade decreasing your mouse sensitivity and movement speed can be frustrating IMO, giving a player the feel to be harmless and the false impresson to die in a cheap way while it does not really change a lot from Fragger’s playstyle. Flashbangs would probably be a safer choice for Splash Damage in their player relations.

I don’t really want to see stun grenades reintroduced though at the end I probably wouldn’t mind. I prefer the Flashbang concept.
[/quote]The thing is, There are both Flashbangs and Conc Grenades one can spawn them via console when playing alone, both have different icons and models.

(Eox) #6

[quote=“Redcap;73244”][quote=“Eox;73087”]I think a grenade decreasing your mouse sensitivity and movement speed can be frustrating IMO, giving a player the feel to be harmless and the false impresson to die in a cheap way while it does not really change a lot from Fragger’s playstyle. Flashbangs would probably be a safer choice for Splash Damage in their player relations.

I don’t really want to see stun grenades reintroduced though at the end I probably wouldn’t mind. I prefer the Flashbang concept.
[/quote]The thing is, There are both Flashbangs and Conc Grenades one can spawn them via console when playing alone, both have different icons and models.[/quote]

@Redcap What is the most recent model ?

(KattiValk) #7

SD just doesn’t understand what a concussion grenade is.

(Reddeadcap) #8

[quote=“Eox;73305”][quote=“Redcap;73244”][quote=“Eox;73087”]I think a grenade decreasing your mouse sensitivity and movement speed can be frustrating IMO, giving a player the feel to be harmless and the false impresson to die in a cheap way while it does not really change a lot from Fragger’s playstyle. Flashbangs would probably be a safer choice for Splash Damage in their player relations.

I don’t really want to see stun grenades reintroduced though at the end I probably wouldn’t mind. I prefer the Flashbang concept.
[/quote]The thing is, There are both Flashbangs and Conc Grenades one can spawn them via console when playing alone, both have different icons and models.[/quote]

@Redcap What is the most recent model ?[/quote]
Both, as in there is both the green and round concussion grenade used by Thunder and the baby blue cylander-y flashbangs, both going by their own names, Thunder’s conc nades using the head with a star on the forehead and the flashbangs just a simple icon of it, it doesn’t help that both effects that I’ve mentioned and lines can be found, sure many characters have lines for different abilities, Vasilli pretty much having lines for everything, maybe being an early placeholder for everyone, but the “I’m blind” lines in general are used when exposed to Redeye’s smoke grenades but there are many lines where characters are have trouble, some comparing it to a hangover.[quote=“Incoming;73314”]SD just doesn’t understand what a concussion grenade is.[/quote]
How would someone implement a concussion grenade? Many games go for a view and control disorienting grenade, but not a flat out blinding effect, a great example being Planetside 2’s as the closer you’re to the blast the more the visuals would be blurred and mouse sensitivity would turn sluggish…

(Eox) #9

[quote=“Redcap;73443”]
Both, as in there is both the green and round concussion grenade used by Thunder and the baby blue cylander-y flashbangs, both going by their own names, Thunder’s conc nades using the head with a star on the forehead and the flashbangs just a simple icon of it, it doesn’t help that both effects that I’ve mentioned and lines can be found, sure many characters have lines for different abilities, Vasilli pretty much having lines for everything, maybe being an early placeholder for everyone, but the “I’m blind” lines in general are used when exposed to Redeye’s smoke grenades but there are many lines where characters are have trouble, some comparing it to a hangover.[/quote]

So, there none of those two kind of grenades that were introduced after the other ?

If beta Thunder had the concussion ones, the next Thunder will probably be using Flashbangs I guess.

(Reddeadcap) #10

[quote=“Eox;73450”]

So, there none of those two kind of grenades that were introduced after the other ?

If beta Thunder had the concussion ones, the next Thunder will probably be using Flashbangs I guess.[/quote]
The thing is Dazzler since really early closed alpha had flashbangs blue ones, in later closed beta these were long gone since the introduction of Fragger and Thunder which instead uses concussion grenades, I haven’t been hit by it myself but used Thunder so I can’t say if the effect is like a flashbang but people compared it to the planetside grenades I mentioned so theres a lot on my mind about these the inclusion of Dazzler theres a lot one can spawn with console commands, some of which is new, some of which is old, but a the fact that these flashbangs are still even available make me curious, the other items are:

Phoenix’ healing pulse, which seems to have been updated and changed from how it was before.

Nader’s old grenade launcher, which functioned as an actual weapon which needs to be reloaded and ammo

Aimee’s camera which has both a blinding flashbang effect and the visual shaking of what people said the concussion grenades would do, which means both are in the game?

Sounds for Phantom’s original pistol which would be supressed.

I’m wondering other people’s thoughts since one would guess these wouldn’t be in the coding anymore since the character is now long gone along with how exactly are DB portraying Thunder’s concussion grenades since as far as I know they’re not one in the same, and if the case of them simply replacing his concussion grenades with flashbangs, why keep the sky blue models for Dazzler and what happened to Thunder’s deep green/round models.

There was also the fact that Thunder’s grenades couldn’t be cooked like Fragger’s but maybe had a 3 second fuse.

(Eox) #11

I screwed up my quote and terrible things happened. I’m sorry. D:

However, the flashbang model turned green right ? There have been a modification made. So the probability to see Thunder getting those Flashbangs is still here and is pretty big.

Now that I am thinking about it : what if Thunder, upon re-release, gets the two grenade types ? One concussion grenade and one flashbang.

(Reddeadcap) #12

[quote=“Eox;73656”]I screwed up my quote and terrible things happened. I’m sorry. D:

However, the flashbang model turned green right ? There have been a modification made. So the probability to see Thunder getting those Flashbangs is still here and is pretty big.

Now that I am thinking about it : what if Thunder, upon re-release, gets the two grenade types ? One concussion grenade and one flashbang.[/quote]

A bit doubtful as it would make him a more effective Fragger, but without the need of his grenades doing damage, with 2 flavors to choose from so to speak, It’d be nicer if it was given to a second character.

The green grenade is still named Concussion Grenade, but it currently has the flashbang effect, Although people mentioned it used to have a different effect camera wobble/mouse control loss.

The Blue grenade is still named Flashbang, it still has the flashbang effect I’m curious because one would think it would be gone, along with Nader’s actual grenade launcher as a weapon, that also makes one wonder why they’d keep these, along with the Rocket launcher that for a character that might not even exist along with items that are actually getting updated (Pheonix’ healing pulse)

[url=“https://youtu.be/-vIf4EkYLRE?t=1m36s”]My main concern comes from Thunder’s lines being “You no see lightning but you’ll definitely hear thunder.” and many lines characters have which seem to be responses to being hit by his grenades are less about being blinded or not being able to see (Those are used for Redeye’s smoke) and more outright disoriented, one line even comparing it to a hangover.

A string of these lines, followed by the blind ones, used when in Redeye’s smoke.

This is weird as Aimee’s third eye cameras seem to be have both effects, the commentator says the first effect was a conussive blast, but was blinded, while the second does the camera shake, and the sparks/smoke of what one can see in some footage with Thunder.

Here is some footage in question, one can see it’s the round/green/triangular pinned grenades and as the player runs around the corner sees his own blast

(Eox) #13

Man, those quotes are awesome ! “Personnally, I think I am thunderrated, which is HILARIOUS… Laugh !”. As someone who is still searching for a 3rd merc, this hyped me a bit.

That feel wierd indeed, but it comforts me a bit about the fact that he could be somewhat heavily reworked. They probably figured out that a stun system was not fun for the players fighting against him maybe ? Since the “Phantomgate” I heavily suspect SD to be as careful as they can about their gameplay choices, avoiding everything that players tend to find annoying. I also may be totally wrong and he’ll probably come out with the good ol’ concussion grenades.

I doubt that having both kind of grenades would make him overpowered actually. What’s better ? Stunning/blinding, or downright kill ? Unless Thunder has more splash range than Fragger I actually doubt a bit he may be used more than him…

(Reddeadcap) #14

[quote=“Eox;74242”]Man, those quotes are awesome ! “Personnally, I think I am thunderrated, which is HILARIOUS… Laugh !”. As someone who is still searching for a 3rd merc, this hyped me a bit.

That feel wierd indeed, but it comforts me a bit about the fact that he could be somewhat heavily reworked. They probably figured out that a stun system was not fun for the players fighting against him maybe ? Since the “Phantomgate” I heavily suspect SD to be as careful as they can about their gameplay choices, avoiding everything that players tend to find annoying. I also may be totally wrong and he’ll probably come out with the good ol’ concussion grenades.

I doubt that having both kind of grenades would make him overpowered actually. What’s better ? Stunning/blinding, or downright kill ? Unless Thunder has more splash range than Fragger I actually doubt a bit he may be used more than him…[/quote]

in the case of them working as flashbangs, one could be blinded just a grenade next to the Ev as they’re leaving spawn as the attackers, so it has more range, definitely but the effects seem to be based on distance from the grenade blast, so someone at that distance would be blinded for a second while someone right on top of it would be blinded for about 4-5.

(Eox) #15

[quote=“Redcap;74267”][quote=“Eox;74242”]Man, those quotes are awesome ! “Personnally, I think I am thunderrated, which is HILARIOUS… Laugh !”. As someone who is still searching for a 3rd merc, this hyped me a bit.

That feel wierd indeed, but it comforts me a bit about the fact that he could be somewhat heavily reworked. They probably figured out that a stun system was not fun for the players fighting against him maybe ? Since the “Phantomgate” I heavily suspect SD to be as careful as they can about their gameplay choices, avoiding everything that players tend to find annoying. I also may be totally wrong and he’ll probably come out with the good ol’ concussion grenades.

I doubt that having both kind of grenades would make him overpowered actually. What’s better ? Stunning/blinding, or downright kill ? Unless Thunder has more splash range than Fragger I actually doubt a bit he may be used more than him…[/quote]

in the case of them working as flashbangs, one could be blinded just a grenade next to the Ev as they’re leaving spawn as the attackers, so it has more range, definitely but the effects seem to be based on distance from the grenade blast, so someone at that distance would be blinded for a second while someone right on top of it would be blinded for about 4-5.[/quote]

Probably. It would be a nice mechanic also : a grenade that can blind, with a LOT of range, but you could counter by simply looking away. Not that simple to counter.

(Reddeadcap) #16

[quote=“Eox;74282”][quote=“Redcap;74267”][quote=“Eox;74242”]Man, those quotes are awesome ! “Personnally, I think I am thunderrated, which is HILARIOUS… Laugh !”. As someone who is still searching for a 3rd merc, this hyped me a bit.

That feel wierd indeed, but it comforts me a bit about the fact that he could be somewhat heavily reworked. They probably figured out that a stun system was not fun for the players fighting against him maybe ? Since the “Phantomgate” I heavily suspect SD to be as careful as they can about their gameplay choices, avoiding everything that players tend to find annoying. I also may be totally wrong and he’ll probably come out with the good ol’ concussion grenades.

I doubt that having both kind of grenades would make him overpowered actually. What’s better ? Stunning/blinding, or downright kill ? Unless Thunder has more splash range than Fragger I actually doubt a bit he may be used more than him…[/quote]

in the case of them working as flashbangs, one could be blinded just a grenade next to the Ev as they’re leaving spawn as the attackers, so it has more range, definitely but the effects seem to be based on distance from the grenade blast, so someone at that distance would be blinded for a second while someone right on top of it would be blinded for about 4-5.[/quote]

Probably. It would be a nice mechanic also : a grenade that can blind, with a LOT of range, but you could counter by simply looking away. Not that simple to counter.[/quote]
I forgot to leave out a few details butt that was me trying to explain how effective they are so far.
IF one was to throw it, say at the side of the EV in the first phase, the attacking team would be blinded if they were just down the hill, as my screenshot shows. But that would be for just a second and a half, someone too close to it will still be blinded but for about 4 or 5 seconds, even when not looking at the blast.

(Eox) #17

[quote=“Redcap;74287”]
I forgot to leave out a few details butt that was me trying to explain how effective they are so far.
IF one was to throw it, say at the side of the EV in the first phase, the attacking team would be blinded if they were just down the hill, as my screenshot shows. But that would be for just a second and a half, someone too close to it will still be blinded but for about 4 or 5 seconds, even when not looking at the blast.[/quote]

So it’s just basic hit detection ? Too bad. :confused:

(Reddeadcap) #18

[quote=“Eox;74290”][quote=“Redcap;74287”]
I forgot to leave out a few details butt that was me trying to explain how effective they are so far.
IF one was to throw it, say at the side of the EV in the first phase, the attacking team would be blinded if they were just down the hill, as my screenshot shows. But that would be for just a second and a half, someone too close to it will still be blinded but for about 4 or 5 seconds, even when not looking at the blast.[/quote]

So it’s just basic hit detection ? Too bad. :/[/quote]
Sorry for the delay and potato quality but heres a view of the grenade itself

So Long as you’re not in direct line of sight from the blast so to speak the blast wont affect the player, but it does have a max range, [url=“http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/691656007248010888/DBEA4C610F8A407B7E23F057B74A54E0536B1EEE/”]at the closest range it blinds the player for 3 seconds at the minimum about half a second.

My only thought is, Thunder could just now have flashbangs which is a shame and his voice lines will contradicts everything he says he does and the grenades had their models changed from their original form to be easier to destinguish from Fragger Grenades or the posibility of seeing Dazzler as a flashbanging alternative in the future, or that the Conc Grenades might be heavily worked on and the Flashbangs might just be left over from the alpha like Nader’s grenade launcher which was an actual weapon with a magazine capacity and could be reloaded rather than an ability.

Edit: Although, the one he’s holding looks a lot more like the ones he would toss before, not the blue, flashbang ones, while the ones dangling on his harness appear like a mix of different types for cosmetic purposes like the rest of the mercs have.

(PowerReef) #19

pre alpha

There is no such thing.

(Reddeadcap) #20

[quote=“PowerReef;78410”]>pre alpha

There is no such thing.[/quote]
Pre-Alpha Multiplayer footage, my mistake.