Why the security is not as bad as they seem

(madoule) #101

oh good, discussion back on track.

i mean sadly we don’t know enough by know to get the “instant deep context” ed stern developed. my head keeps spinning trying to imagine what’s going on on the ark, things we don’t know yet.

tho my earlier posts have indicated otherwise i do have to side with the thread title.
h0rse’s explanation

  • They have a secret, master plan, that saves everyone, but in the meantime, needs to cause/maintain chaos.
    may be a good explanation that the close circle of leaders have the master plan leaving the bad taste that they didn’t involve the entire community such as founders and/or refugees and/or the security.
    another possibility may be that security and resistance are played against each-other. perhaps a mole on the resistance or on the security side has leaked wrong information and started an unnecessary conflict to pursue his own goals…

bottom line, this discussion makes me ache for the game. i have always been a fan of those stories with extra info if you just look for it. i really want to have a deep look in that afore mentioned instant deep context ed promised and get the whole story… NOW :wink:

(Ajax's Spear) #102

Words change, connotations change, contexts change… there’s nothing racially charged about the word “ghetto” itself at all. It no longer specifically applies to Jewish people during the third reich, at least no in American-English. I know many Jewish people, and though I’ve never done a scientific and clinical experiment, I don’t think using the term in front of them would somehow induce cringing.

I don’t need any help from someone so overly-PC that they think any term that could possibly hold some terse connection to racism is offensive. You people are a bane on freedom of speech. Are we to stop using the words “cotton” or “pyramids” as well?

(Ajax's Spear) #103

That’s like saying you don’t care about the plot of a movie or book because it’s fictional. The devs intentionally made a story that was supposed to spark discussions of morals and ethics. I’m happy to oblige.

(Ajax's Spear) #104

[QUOTE=Herandar;261467]Language and word meanings change constantly. The word ‘gay’ meant happy in the 1950s, it meant ‘homosexual male’ in the 1970s, it meant ‘homosexual person’ in the 1990s, and nowadays it apparently means ‘stupid’ without any sexual implication at all. (Try to remember that when dealing with kids online.)

Ghetto had a strong connotation 500 years ago and it was somewhat revived by the Nazis, but there aren’t typically Jewish districts in American cities. But there are ghettos. And Chinatowns…

The original meaning is irrelevant to a conntemporary discussion.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. If I had seen this response first, I wouldn’t have even bothered replying to Apples.

(Herandar) #105

Secret plan:
Raise the anchors. Set the top-secret Ark drive system to full speed ahead. Once land is spotted, set Container City adrift. Throw a party.

(madoule) #106

[QUOTE=Herandar;261511]Secret plan:
Raise the anchors. Set the top-secret Ark drive system to full speed ahead. Once land is spotted, set Container City adrift. Throw a party.[/QUOTE]

that plot would be a letdown…
i have more belief in ed’s capabilities.

(Nail) #107

morality in games is contrived, it’s either black or white, IRL it’s a million shades of grey

(MatthiasK75) #108

this whole argument is what brink is about. I am a Resistance fan, and i truly think that they are fighting to be equal and to be properly treated and respected, but others in this thread do not, which is how the security see. The security think that they are trying to gain control of everything and look to seize power by killing and causing destruction, and that is part of the reason why i am in love with Brink, one simple misunderstand, that could probably be solved with perhaps a simple meeting of leaders, leads to a giant, bloody, destructive war… that will be fun as hell :slight_smile:

(Bullveyr) #109

I honestly don’t care.
I don’t expect much from the SP: “MP Maps” where the main objective has more background, tied together with a story and cutscenes.
The story will be good or bad or something in between.

I will play that once and after that i’m of to MP, where Resistance or Security only means that I’m atacking or defending on this map, just as I don’t care if I’m a bad Strogg/Axis Soldier or a good GDF/Allied Soldier.

Nevertheless it’s a nice discussion. :slight_smile:

(Seyu) #110

It is easy for you to say that, I doubt an impoverished man working 18 hours at a sweatshop would agree with you. Whenever such conditions have arisen there has been revolution. Revolutions in France, Iran, Russia, Cuba and the present state of affairs in the Middle East have all been because of the superclass’ refusal to ‘share’ with the suffering, downtrodden proletariat.

While we are at it, give this a look. The theory has lost relevance over time but still makes for an interesting read.

[QUOTE=Atavax;261189]except, thats complete BS. You don’t support ever taking people off life support until they die? Taking someone off life support is judging someone’s life and determining who to kill and who to let live; exactly what you said you’re against.

even the most basic concept of modern society:laws, is basically judging lives and says a life where the individual does X deserves to be punished in Y way. Society revolves around valuing and judging individual lives.[/QUOTE]

You can’t compare the condition of a comatose patient to that of a repressed community. Then, according to your views shouldn’t we just bump off all the unemployed and criminals as they put stress on a society’s resources? There’s a reason why the death penalty has been abolished in almost every developed nation.

Misunderstanding amongst the foot soldiers that is, I doubt the founders or the Resistance’s leaders are clueless about what exactly is going.

(Jess Alon) #111

Did you know that if you have running water in your home that you are considered more wealthy then 60 percent of the rest of the world? Pretty sure container city probably doesn’t have running water. Think about that for a second.

(Mad Hatter) #112

Of course it doesn’t. Water is probably the most important and scarce resource on all of the Ark. Hence why it’s handed out in rations.

Anyway, a thought: Why don’t the refugees just build more water processing plants and algae farms or something? Even if they have to steal some equipment to do it it seems like it would be a better use of their time than fighting a civil war. And like H0RSE said, some of them were scientists, mechanics, and engineers before they came to the Ark, so the technical aspects of such an endeavor shouldn’t pose too much of a problem for them.

For that matter, why don’t the Founders and the Security side do the same thing? Sounds like they’ve got nothing but time on their hands, and they built that fusion reactor, so why not work on creating more water and food?

(Herandar) #113

Because all they have is sheet metal, weapons, tattoo parlors, face paint, ripped clothing, a few badass facemasks and tons of cheap labor.

(Atavax) #114

modern society in every developed country are men playing gods, men, valuing life and handing down judgments. Killing every unemployed and criminal puts off more stress on a society’s resources then not doing so, and thats why many societies don’t do it. Why do you think most modern governments don’t kill drains on society such as unemployed and criminals?

Why does a man work 18 hour shifts in a sweatshop? He doesn’t have a gun to his head; he could live in the middle of nowhere and survive. The wealthy are not stealing his labour. The wealthy offer him more then he could produce by himself.

(Ajax's Spear) #115

[QUOTE=Atavax;261700]modern society in every developed country are men playing gods, men, valuing life and handing down judgments. Killing every unemployed and criminal puts off more stress on a society’s resources then not doing so, and thats why many societies don’t do it. Why do you think most modern governments don’t kill drains on society such as unemployed and criminals?

Why does a man work 18 hour shifts in a sweatshop? He doesn’t have a gun to his head; he could live in the middle of nowhere and survive. The wealthy are not stealing his labour. The wealthy offer him more then he could produce by himself.[/QUOTE]

Oh, ****e. Here we go. Private property entitlement. I was wondering how long it would take before this issue arose.

(H0RSE) #116

Why does a man work 18 hour shifts in a sweatshop? He doesn’t have a gun to his head; he could live in the middle of nowhere and survive. The wealthy are not stealing his labour. The wealthy offer him more then he could produce by himself.

Because they wealthy pretty much block every other opportunity for him to do so. Ultimately, the man winds up working for the very people that are keeping him down.

(Ajax's Spear) #117

True enough. The wealthy can use the government to construct barriers to entry. Though they often appear otherwise, corporations are often the number 1 fans of regulation, because it usually helps them more than it hurts them.

(Atavax) #118

a man by himself is nothing. If you didn’t have wealthy people build you up, you wouldn’t even be able to build a fire. Our understanding of math, language, history, and science are given to us as kids by those wealthier then us. We are built up, not kept down. If you were in a coma from birth until you were a young adult and then when you were a young adult you awoke and you were left in an area where there was no human interference; you would not be better off then if you were in a human society where the wealthy are happy to impart knowledge and to give you a job where you get more from then you could get by yourself. you bought your tv from the wealthy, your monitor, your computer, your internet, your house. Without the wealthy, you would at best be in a cave with a fire. In the case of Brink, they wouldn’t be alive without the wealthy. the Wealthy produced the very ground they live on and the wealthy happily gave it to them.

(Ajax's Spear) #119

a lot of that is just happenstance though. The same could be said if anyone owned the means of production, whether it be wealthy private individuals or co-operatives (i.e “the people”).

It also depends on who or what you consider to be wealthy. As far as basically being reduced to a caveman without the wealthy and without proximal relation to industry and society, tell that to Heimo Korth.

(Atavax) #120

[QUOTE=Ajax’s Spear;261707]a lot of that is just happenstance though. The same could be said if anyone owned the means of production, whether it be wealthy private individuals or co-operatives (i.e “the people”).

It also depends on who or what you consider to be wealthy. As far as basically being reduced to a caveman without the wealthy and without proximal relation to industry and society, tell that to Heimo Korth.[/QUOTE]

Heimo Korth was raised in a wealthy nation and was educated. Education is very valuable and given in most developed nations for free.