Why the Points System is Flawed ( and suggested Fix)

(Wraith) #21

Anyone just realize that once you hit level 20 xp gains no longer matter and you can just do what is best for your team?

(dazman76) #22

looks around the room for raised hands A low enough number to mean that you don’t meet many of them while playing online, unless you intentionally get together with them :slight_smile:

(Happymonster) #23

[QUOTE=Hyraltia;313959]Problem with this is that most people are spec’d for 2 different classes per character they make, for me, my main is medic and operative, meaning im PRETTY much bottle-necked into those two classes if i want to be useful/effective against the enemy team (since most of them will play their main classes and have full skill points vs my none if i don’t use mine), my alt char is soldier/engi, granted i switch between my chars based on my mood and how i feel like playing, but either way, I can only do so much effectively.

All of the above is why i think the skill pointing stuff is kinda…blah for a class based game, don’t get me wrong, i enjoy the skills and such but it leaves you very limited in usefulness when a map gets picked that you don’t have a spec into…[/QUOTE]

thats why u need to be able to change bodytype/character midgame

(goodpain) #24

[QUOTE=Hyraltia;313959]Problem with this is that most people are spec’d for 2 different classes per character they make, for me, my main is medic and operative, meaning im PRETTY much bottle-necked into those two classes if i want to be useful/effective against the enemy team (since most of them will play their main classes and have full skill points vs my none if i don’t use mine), my alt char is soldier/engi, granted i switch between my chars based on my mood and how i feel like playing, but either way, I can only do so much effectively.

All of the above is why i think the skill pointing stuff is kinda…blah for a class based game, don’t get me wrong, i enjoy the skills and such but it leaves you very limited in usefulness when a map gets picked that you don’t have a spec into.

And as to the killing exp thing, no, kill exp is fine where it is, if you get objective points and kills at the same time you get a significant bonus, random kills off the objectives should barely count for anything (as is right now). Like I’ve said in other threads, you boost kill exp or start tracking KDR, you create lone wolf retards who just wanna boost their stats/get easy exp and end up providing NOTHING useful to the team.[/QUOTE]

This

and also this

Thanks :cool:

(suho) #25

I agree that 75XP for buffing someone right after they spawned and already have full HP (minus 1-2 pips) is way to much. It also is a huge waste of supplies. In fact yesterday evening while I spawned some stupid medic gave me a frakkin Adrenalin buff, at our frakkin spawn point … serisouly, that is damn stupid.
I think however this is very easy to solve: Just give only 20 XP for buffing someone who otherwise has full HP and give 75 when buffing someone who is half dead which is a much more effective use of your supplies.

(Bakercompany) #26

I tested a theory over the past few days after being beat down for daring to suggest this game have a win/loss counter, something to motivate people to win instead of doing whatever.

I was told the KD stats in this game would push people away from doing objectives and just kill camp.

So in a bunch of matches when my buddies were offline and I was solo, I ignored the main Obj completely (since bots seem to anyway) and I continually re-captured command posts, upgraded them, and camped them out. Since the current bot AI constantly sends them after command posts instead of objectives, every match I ended up with Best Engineer, Most Kills, and Best Overall, smoking the rest of the teams XP without bothering with the main objective (without a W/L counter, losing doesn’t really matter, XP matters).

Sure when you’re in a concerted effort with your buds you want to win the match. But just as a test I realized I came away with much more XP camping kills and command posts rather than doing the main Objective, since the bots ignore it anyway and the other 3 guys on my team were garbage.

(Bakercompany) #27

[QUOTE=suho;314250]I agree that 75XP for buffing someone right after they spawned and already have full HP (minus 1-2 pips) is way to much. It also is a huge waste of supplies. In fact yesterday evening while I spawned some stupid medic gave me a frakkin Adrenalin buff, at our frakkin spawn point … serisouly, that is damn stupid.
I think however this is very easy to solve: Just give only 20 XP for buffing someone who otherwise has full HP and give 75 when buffing someone who is half dead which is a much more effective use of your supplies.[/QUOTE]

Thats a point I forgot. I tossed out weapon upgrades to everyone around whenever I would spawn, this generated far more XP than chasing the main objective with 4 dumb bots and 3 not-so-great players who were just trying to boost their XP.

Occasionally I’d get the good player or two who’d help with the main obj. But I mainly see medics buffing everyone to top the charts, not running to revive.

(Dorian Gray) #28

In a very short time people will have their character levels maxed out and won’t be medic XP whores anymore. I’ve been playing the 5v5 competitive gametype and I’ve found a lot of people communicating and working together to do the objective. As far as everyone being medics, I have to switch to medic a lot because our team won’t have one otherwise.

From reading some of these posts you guys really need to try out the 5v5. No lag, no bots! I’m on xbox.

(Orthias) #29

Umm… that’s irrelevant because:

[ol]
[li]new players have to get to 20 first. If the journey there is unpleasant they will quit the game before then, with a very bad impression[/li][li]players at 20 will still want to use the XP gained as a reference of who played better in their team, people need to rank themselves against others. And if the XP system can be abused, that invalidates the rankings…[/li][/ol]

(Bakercompany) #30

[QUOTE=Orthias;314274]Umm… that’s irrelevant because:

[ol]
[li]new players have to get to 20 first. If the journey there is unpleasant they will quit the game before then, with a very bad impression
[/li][li]players at 20 will still want to use the XP gained as a reference of who played better in their team, people need to rank themselves against others. And if the XP system can be abused, that invalidates the rankings…
[/li][/ol][/QUOTE]

Agreed.

The less team-minded people who play, once they’re at 20 they’ll just do whatever they know makes them look like the star on the board. Then you’ll see more kill camping to get “Highest Kills” than you would if this game had stat tracking.

I can get Best Engineer just by buffing everyone on the way out of spawn, and most kills comes easy with Drognav headshots.

(suho) #31

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;314279]Agreed.

The less team-minded people who play, once they’re at 20 they’ll just do whatever they know makes them look like the star on the board. Then you’ll see more kill camping to get “Highest Kills” than you would if this game had stat tracking.

I can get Best Engineer just by buffing everyone on the way out of spawn, and most kills comes easy with Drognav headshots.[/QUOTE]

Ehm, I kinda have to disagree here. First off as engineer u should definitely try to buff people right of the bat because improoved weapon damage is a huge advantage so the XP is justified.
If that makes u the best engineer so be it. As for the lvl cap, I can only say it is good that u reach it very fast and I believ that is the intention of SD. I believe they only put this into the game to get the attention of the type of FPS gamer that has evolved in the last couple of years. As for me I can only say that I play this game it is intended to be played: For the fun of it and not for rewards and K/D ratio …

(NathanDavid) #32

[tear]I’m a little emotional because of the sheer awesomeness of Orthias’ post. So, please bear with me.[/tear]

Okay, on a serious note, I couldn’t agree more with you’re assessment. You hit the nail on the head. (Sorry for my chessiness)

[short story]
Just last night I was introducing a friend to Brink. He had just finished a few challanges and wanted to get into the action. So, we jump on a server and Aquarium is loading up. So, I explained to him “Dude, if were on defense, this map is going to be super easy!”, which is a problem all its own, but thats besides the point of this thread. Luckily we were selected to play on the defensive side. So I go, set-up my MGs, take the lower CP, drop a sentry to protect the CP, then go back upstairs to defend the bridge. At this point I explain to him “Dude, I bet you I sit here defending, picking off the assault one by one, get Most Kills and still get the lowest amount of XP!”.

Just as I said, that’s exactly what happened. Now, I’m not raging, I had tons of fun taking of thier heads, believe me!, but something isn’t right when I score the lowest XP, though I was the most proficient on my team at accomplishing the MAIN objective, which was to defend. There honestly was nothing else for me to do as an engineer, other than buff passing friendlies.

(Bakercompany) #33

[QUOTE=suho;314286]Ehm, I kinda have to disagree here. First off as engineer u should definitely try to buff people right of the bat because improoved weapon damage is a huge advantage so the XP is justified.
If that makes u the best engineer so be it. As for the lvl cap, I can only say it is good that u reach it very fast and I believ that is the intention of SD. I believe they only put this into the game to get the attention of the type of FPS gamer that has evolved in the last couple of years. As for me I can only say that I play this game it is intended to be played: For the fun of it and not for rewards and K/D ratio …[/QUOTE]

Oh don’t get me wrong. First off I completely agree with the time it takes to reach 20. I’m glad this game doesn’t have a ridiculous level grind, thats what MMOs are for =D

And when I play this game, believe me I play this game. I buff humans first (sorry bots) and key classes (main obj) also get kevlar. I set my turrets in the best possible locations for great field of fire to defend an area. I set my mines in great locations to ensure contact, and my second mine typically a few more feet away to finish the job (or irritate another guy =D )

The points system is okay for me I don’t really have any problems. Its by far easier for a medic to dominate the XP boards, which they do deserve, but its not super fair to other classes that have to work 10x as hard for comparable XP.

Also you have one class who’s abilities are focused mainly on killing (Solider) yet kill XP (and no stat tracking) are hardly present, thus soldiers become ammo beacons (which I still greatly appreciate, but they’re not as rewarded via XP).

So I guess i’m trying to make 2 points. 1 the xp is fine, but could afford some tweaks (if that makes sense) and 2, this game would benefit (in my opinion) from a win/loss tracker. As it is people have no incentive to win (other than the satisfaction, which is enough for some but not others).

I’m still taken aback by the complete lack of stat tracking in this game. And while i’m sick to my stomach from all the COD comparisons etc, I will say despite being a game all about the KD, in SnD, Demo, HQ etc people still work together for objectives just fine. The KD’ers go to TDM. So I don’t think stats in this game would hurt it the way some people think (or maybe they’re just afraid of their own kd?)

I could be way off course, my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.

(iezza) #34

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;314269]Thats a point I forgot. I tossed out weapon upgrades to everyone around whenever I would spawn, this generated far more XP than chasing the main objective with 4 dumb bots and 3 not-so-great players who were just trying to boost their XP.

Occasionally I’d get the good player or two who’d help with the main obj. But I mainly see medics buffing everyone to top the charts, not running to revive.[/QUOTE]

Seriously?! i always revive, i do mad kamikaze sprints, use up my last supply meter, revive and die. I give my life for my team, if frinely fire was on id shoot those noobs :frowning:

(Bakercompany) #35

You’re the kind I hope to play with. I’m always the best Engineer I can be (when playing seriously that is).

I will say most people play their classes well. Although i’ve also had plenty of times being completely out of ammo (for all weapons) and a human solider would look dead at me and not toss me ammo. I assumed he was out, but then a second later he gave himself ammo…

Infuriating. Glad to know you put out the effort bro =D

(iezza) #36

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;314364]You’re the kind I hope to play with. I’m always the best Engineer I can be (when playing seriously that is).

I will say most people play their classes well. Although i’ve also had plenty of times being completely out of ammo (for all weapons) and a human solider would look dead at me and not toss me ammo. I assumed he was out, but then a second later he gave himself ammo…

Infuriating. Glad to know you put out the effort bro =D[/QUOTE]

Of course, i self revive and shoot that mo-fo in the back :P!

U on xbox? if u are add me :slight_smile:

(suho) #37

I dont know but I think they do take a lot of data and stats like the way they did with ET:QW, because that is a good way to balance maps obj, weapons etc. If you have all the data at hand and know the win/loss ratio for res/sec for each map and if its not close to 50 percent, then you know its not balanced. The question only is, are they going make it available like they did for ET:QW.

(Hyraltia) #38

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;314345]I’m still taken aback by the complete lack of stat tracking in this game. And while i’m sick to my stomach from all the COD comparisons etc, I will say despite being a game all about the KD, in SnD, Demo, HQ etc people still work together for objectives just fine. The KD’ers go to TDM. So I don’t think stats in this game would hurt it the way some people think (or maybe they’re just afraid of their own kd?)

I could be way off course, my coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.[/QUOTE]

That’s the thing, CoD and the like HAVE game types that are KDR oriented, so the whores can go there, this game is ALL team based objective play, if you show KDR, you kill the entire game.

Edit: Don’t get me wrong here, I’m a KDR whore in CoD too, but the thing is, I bought this game and am playing it because I’m sick of that lone wolf play style, I enjoy working as a team and am very good at it (as long as the rest of the team isn’t herp derping around being useless). If KDR and stats are put in, granted I PROBABLY would start to worry about my KDR where as right now I couldn’t give less of a crap about how many times I die, so long as I get my objective done.

(SinDonor) #39

This game is not about XP points. The buttheads who care about that stuff won’t be playing here that long. Once the new COD or BF is out, they’ll be gone. If you get stuck in a game with a bunch of butthead medics, quit and try another server. Or recruit some friends to play.

Just last night I was playing some BFBC2 (after playing Brink ALL DAY LONG), and my friends and I fought against a team that had 4-6 guys trying to cap flags in Conquest, and the rest of their idiotic team just tried to hide in the mountains and snipe. We totally owned them. Our team was full of medics/assault/engys and we had 2-3 guys counter-sniping and chucking motion sensors around our capped flags. It was a joke, no challenge at all. Next match, the half of the team that was not sniping all left. They were left with the butthead 6 snipers. Needless to say: The next match was even easier.

(Stimson) #40

And i am completely against putting KD in for viewing, i played too much Halo and CoD where people say, oh your KD isnt above X YOU SUCK GTFO!! Once you put in KD most people just want more kills and dont care about the objective.

Also im glad the level cap is only at 20, it gives you something to work for, but isnt the main focus of the game like CoD is. Personally i wish they would get rid of levels alltogether, it sucks being a LV 20 and only being able to host a match cause you cant join with people of lower rank. You dont get to show off your lazarus grenade of gat turret or downed fire that often.