Why the incoming MP nerf is a bad idea

(Laionidas) #1

Like someone said in the above Reddit discussion: low level Vaseline players (that are the real problem) don’t really use MP’s to begin with. They just sit and camp, often losing their team the game by going purely for kills, which half the time they fail to get too.

The Mercs being affected by this are Fletcher, Proxy, and most of all Sparks. She has allready been nerfed quite hard recently (justified or not), and if this happens she’ll be left with no offensive capability whatsoever.

For Fletcher and Proxy, it is less of a problem, but they will still completely lose their flexibility. If MP’s turn into a close range defensive tool, there really is no reason for them to swap from their shotguns, unless they run out of ammo, in which case a pistol would have done all the same.

(Jostabeere) #2

That’s the meaning of a sidearm.

(doxjq) #3

It depends how they are going to nerf them. Was discussing this with a mate today. For me it doesn’t affect my Proxy as I use the KE53 any way (Hochfir and Deagle) but I know it’s going to nerf BL32 fletcher and things of that nature quite hard.

My main concern is Sparks aswell. They already nerfed her big time, and now she is totally going to suck.

(Eox) #4

[quote=“rancid;147507”]It depends how they are going to nerf them. Was discussing this with a mate today. For me it doesn’t affect my Proxy as I use the KE53 any way (Hochfir and Deagle) but I know it’s going to nerf BL32 fletcher and things of that nature quite hard.
[/quote]

I would be much more worried about shotgun loadouts. With BL33 and BL32 at least you have the Blishlok that allows you to fight somewhat decently past five meters. With a shotgun loadout, you’ll have nothing.

(Jostabeere) #5

[quote=“Eox;147508”][quote=“rancid;147507”]It depends how they are going to nerf them. Was discussing this with a mate today. For me it doesn’t affect my Proxy as I use the KE53 any way (Hochfir and Deagle) but I know it’s going to nerf BL32 fletcher and things of that nature quite hard.
[/quote]

I would be much more worried about shotgun loadouts. With BL33 and BL32 at least you have the Blishlok that allows you to fight somewhat decently past five meters. With a shotgun loadout, you’ll have nothing.[/quote]

I found my WtD A62 Fletcher surprisingly good. Not to have the panic-MP makes you be more careful and missing less shots.

(BerylRdm) #6

So, Sparks got nerfed and then got nerfed even more? O.o

(Eox) #7

[quote=“Jostabeere;147511”][quote=“Eox;147508”][quote=“rancid;147507”]It depends how they are going to nerf them. Was discussing this with a mate today. For me it doesn’t affect my Proxy as I use the KE53 any way (Hochfir and Deagle) but I know it’s going to nerf BL32 fletcher and things of that nature quite hard.
[/quote]

I would be much more worried about shotgun loadouts. With BL33 and BL32 at least you have the Blishlok that allows you to fight somewhat decently past five meters. With a shotgun loadout, you’ll have nothing.[/quote]

I found my WtD A62 Fletcher surprisingly good. Not to have the panic-MP makes you be more careful and missing less shots.[/quote]

That one ? The only redeemable thing is Quick Draw. The range issue is as strong as with any other Ahnuhld loadout (seriously, Simeon won’t help). The perk with a machine pistol is that it’s easier to use and make you more confident.

You should still be able to stomp low levels with that, but don’t expect anything in a min level 10 server where you can expect that people will actually try to aim something else than thin air at the exact spot where you are the strongest…

(MvMArcher) #8

Guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they change them.
Looking at the wiki (assuming that the wiki is up to date) the DPS of secondaries are quite similar, in fact the MPs often lower then the pistols.

Now this is not to say that pistols are better or easier to use then MPs, but it will be interesting to see what will be done to them.

(Jostabeere) #9

[quote=“MvMArcher;147532”]Guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they change them.
Looking at the wiki (assuming that the wiki is up to date) the DPS of secondaries are quite similar, in fact the MPs often lower then the pistols.

Now this is not to say that pistols are better or easier to use then MPs, but it will be interesting to see what will be done to them.[/quote]

Sure, MPs have a slightly less DPS, but they’re automatic, have a bigger magazine and so on. I would prefer an MP over every pistol right now to be honest.

(MvMArcher) #10

[quote=“Jostabeere;147534”][quote=“MvMArcher;147532”]Guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they change them.
Looking at the wiki (assuming that the wiki is up to date) the DPS of secondaries are quite similar, in fact the MPs often lower then the pistols.

Now this is not to say that pistols are better or easier to use then MPs, but it will be interesting to see what will be done to them.[/quote]

Sure, MPs have a slightly less DPS, but they’re automatic, have a bigger magazine and so on. I would prefer an MP over every pistol right now to be honest.[/quote]

I agree 100%
After having looked at the wiki for some time.
I might have an idea.

Lower the magazine size by 10 bullets.
Lower the effective range by 1m.
Give them slightly more recoil.

Or would this still leave them in a better state then the pistols?

Also @Amerika doesn’t this belong in the “weapons” subforum?

(The_Enema_Bandit) #11

Gotta see the changes or list of exact planned changes to be able to comment.

Anyway, if the nerf is strong it’s gonna make (in general) Vassili camp more, Fletcher and Proxy play more thoughtful and use different loadouts, and Sparks… well, every nerf to Sparks is a step in the right direction; this direction being the complete removal of that broken bitch from the game. :wink:

(watsyurdeal) #12

Considering they’re secondaries and not primaries, I think they nerf is well deserved.

(Laionidas) #13

True, but that’s not how they function for shotgun Mercs like Proxy and Fletcher. There’s no denying reducing MP’s to actual sidearms is taking away a lot of their potential when it comes to flexibility.

Exactly, no matter how they plan on implementing this nerf, it’ll alway be a nerf, and Sparks doesn’t need another one. If they go through with this, they’d better give her the old Revivr back. Either that or give her a proper SMG as a primary.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #14

A range nerf seems reasonable. Based on the last update I bet we’ll see increased spread as well :frowning:

(Faraleth) #15

Machine pistols are secondary weapons. They have no place as a primary, although many people still use them as “primaries” because of their overall effectiveness.

For example, there is a loadout known as the “double SMG Proxy”. It is not supposed to be ‘double SMG’, it is supposed to be SMG + machine pistol, but right now her secondary is pretty close in terms of fire-power and combat effectiveness to her primary… This shouldn’t be the case.

A side-arm is quite simply, a side-arm. They are the last resort when you don’t have time to reload and need to finish off your opponent. Their nerf is well and truly warranted in this case.

(Amerika) #16

I want to know what the nerfs are before I judge whether or not they are going to change anything drastically.

If it’s a drastic change and there are no buffs to bring up mercs who are more heavily affected than others to coincide with the nerfs then this is going to be a bad decision. I can already think of two weaker mercs that would be heavily affected by this change if it’s a drastic one.

Doing balancing and making all mechanics work exactly alike across all guns and mercs is dangerous and it removes the dials you have for balancing as well as potentially leadings towards mass homogenization of gameplay.

(Jostabeere) #17

inb4 Assault Rifles on Sparks change.

(The_Enema_Bandit) #18

Well, that’s gonna be more like a-salt rifle. Sorry.

(Eox) #19

Well, that’s gonna be more like a-salt rifle. Sorry.[/quote]

Did someone said “salt rifle” ?

https://media.production.coolgift.com/s3fs-public/product/Bugasalt%205.jpg

(The_N00Ba) #20

I have to say as a Proxy player I have found a change to the Machine pistol to be justifiable. I was able to kill two people one right after one another, after surprising them, with it. Combined with Proxies speed the Machine Pistol is quite nasty. Sadly changes to the Machine pistols will have a negative impact on my fun and game play with Proxy. I have relied on the Machine Pistol as my primary simply because I have little confidence in the Remburg 7 as a primary. The machine pistol does little damage but is accurate. With the Remburg 7 I can fire at point blank range at their chest and still miss some how and deal no damage. It also feels like there is no spread width wise at all to it. Granted I probably just stink at using it. That is why I am at least trying to use it more to hopefully get used to it so I am ready for the update.