Why the hell did they nerf the Dreiss AR?

(CCP115) #1

I have no words for this. WHY?

The spread is insane, and now it is even worse. It is powerful yes, but you have to be incredibly good at aiming to consistently land headshots with it.

(Thai-San) #2

I really love the Dreiss-AR since I’m a huge fan of semi auto rifles. But….
I can’t play with it. The insane kick when ADS. The increasing spread with every bullet when firing from the hip. I don’t even want to know how bad my baby is now, since they nerfed it even more.

Full auto seems to be the only kind of weapon the defs want to be viable. Sad, really sad.

Why @MissMurder, why?

Edit:
Maybe Red Eyes weapon will be a semi auto that actually can do stuff. Let’s all hope he will be released soon and that he’s good. But to be honest. I have the feeling that the defs aren’t on our side @extravagentBypass. The good stuff gets delayed over and over again, while annoying stuff gets even worse. And some changes we want and we really need seem to get no further notice.

The Dreiss-AR its the perfect example for what’s wrong with the direction of the game. The whole forum cries that it needs a buff and that it’s close to useless right now. But it get’s a nerf.
Who wanted that? Who?! For crying out loud…
The only explanation that I have is that the 2-5 people world wide who use this weapon right now are really good with it (maybe some pros who need to challenge themselves to not easy wipe the enemy team? ^^) and I also read that many aimbot users like this weapon (can’t confirm that) but it really feels like the devs are only looking at their echo statistics and don’t know about the reality.

(avidCow) #3

Echoing the sentiment about echo, my guess is they looked at statistics and decided it was too good. Funny how that runs contrary with what the community perceives. The Dreiss is hard to use and not terribly competitive. There’s not much disagreement with that afaik. How that translates into “too good, needs a nerf” is a mystery.

(titaniumCrouton) #4

Well…while I agree with you guys, at the same time it is possible for us all to be wrong. Perception does not equal reality. It could be it is actually really good and preforming fairly well statistically and it just in facts FEELS terrible which leads to the perception of the weapon being god awful.

Which in and of itself should be fixed but the actual balance of the weapon comes before QoL fixes for it’s perception…

Idk, hopefully they’ll tell us why. But the above is just a possability.

(Szakalot) #5

its good on pubs cause people don’t dodge and scoring multiple heads is very easy.

I’d like Arty’s gun to either:

  • up the damage a bit
  • have less recoil when ADS
  • have less consecutive spread: its fine that they nerfed initial spread amount, but the gun loses accuracy too quickly when firing from the hip, making it risky to engage in close quarters.
(Reddeadcap) #6

Imho the same can be said about the K-121, it practically forces one to use its sights at anything beyond point blank range yet I’m able to spray entire magazines into someone with the hochfir smg without using the sights on it. I haven’t been able to use it before the Fletcher and nader patches but the changed feel really different than before and sadly there’s no other lmg currently available to compare it to.

(CCP115) #7

So after gameplay, I can deduce the nerf was not at all a big deal. Dreiss AR is still shitty, unless yo are really good at aiming.

Proposed buffs:
-Slightly more damage, maybe 30, so 60 on HS (according to Gamepedia stats)
-Less spread, but don’t change recoil

Proposed nerfs:
-Slightly slower RoF, so it isn’t as spammable with a higher damage.

(mf-) #8

I have no issues with the dreiss-ar in close range, however medium/long range the recoil kick is too much. I play with low sensitivity and I start bottoming-out of mousepad after the 3rd shot trying to keep it at head height.

Don’t even mention ADS, it’s useless in this game and everyone knows it.

(brawnyJester) #9

instead of dumb rng spread why didnt they just add fall off damage to the gun.

(CCP115) #10

Falloff wouldn’t work, because it’s meant to be used at long ranges.

And ADS with the Dreiss is useful, I dunno what you’re on about. I actually use ADS quite a bit on most guns, but the only guns it is really useful on is Dreiss and maybe Stark.

(brawnyJester) #11

Falloff wouldn’t work, because it’s meant to be used at long ranges.

Clearly not because they added spread??

Like what?

It’s sweet spot is the midrange

(distinquishedSandwich) #12

You know what would be good for the Dreiss? a Focus augment instead of the Failsafe or Spare Magazine ones he’s stuck with, which are utter bull on him.

(Gi.Am) #13

I said it in another tread allready but here we go.

The Dreiss is still fine. It isn’t a jack of all trades (like the M4). it has a niche and it does that niche. And the niche is far midrange to longrange combat.
The spread nerf didn’t touch that. Because you are supposed to ADS at those ranges. The spread nerf also didn’t touch the very close range, where you are bling blinging for your life. What it did is decreasing the area where hipfire blinging is effective, forcing you to ADS sooner, thats all there is to it.

Increasing the damage (and lowering the ROF) is not the way to handle balancing on the Dreiss for 2 reasons.

Upping the damage even by a simple 5 points ( to the suggested 30 ) while sounding small would be a huge buff. Right now the Dreiss 2 shots all light classes (Aura, Proxy, Kira, Vassili) and 3 shots everything except rhino and thunder.

The 5 point damage increase would mean the dreiss 2 shots everybody except fragger thunder (both 3) rhino (still 4). 2 Shotting classes that move considerable slower, would make the Dreiss OP on its own and would mean you either have to fuck with accuracy so much that you can’t ensure those 2 headshots (to give the medium mercs a fighting chance) or to lower the ROF considerably which brings me to the second reason.

There are enough accurate high damage, low ROF weapons in the game if you want that pick one of these. BR16, Stark AR, PDP 70, M4-10 BR

The Dreiss is a unique weapon right now don’t take that away.
If you don’t like ADS, keeping your distance, can’t compensate for recoil and suck at headshots (I certainly do) then don’t use the Dreiss, it’s fine there are other weapons that fit your playstyle better.

All that said buffs to spread/accuracy/recoil would be welcomed if they don’t mess with the Damage/ROF ratio. But that squarely falls in the territory of “the stuff I use should always be buffed”.

(CimyZPro) #14

But that’s not the niche for the Dreiss that’s the job the Stark is suppose to do but sucks at it since the sniper rifle does it so much better.

(Gi.Am) #15

Sorry but wrong.
Burstrifles are best at ranges where all 3 bullets still hit the head (and quickly finish most fights) while a singleshot rifle with perfect (ads) accuracy will always excel beyond that point.

Besides under the assumption that the stats on the weapon spreadsheet are correct for maxrange/minrange and min damage.
The Dreiss also has less damage falloff then both burstrifles making it more effective on longer range than the other two options damagewise.

Burstrifles are in essence shotguns for midrange combat (atleast in the way games usually model them).

(CimyZPro) #16

Dreiss is still not a long range weapon and the Burst Rifles in their current state are useless at any range and are out classed by all the other weapons.

The Dreiss is the best option under any situation, simply because all the other options are subpar and overnerfed.

(Thai-San) #17

They are hard to use, but far from useless. One burst (which is 100% accurate from the hip) in the head will kill every light merc instantly.
15 per bullet x 2 for headshot x 3 for burst = 90 dmg with one click
so if you are good with headshots you can two-burst everything lower then Rhino.
That isn’t useless.

I’m not that good with headshots so I don’t use them that often, but when I oneshot a Proxy/Aura/Kira I know why I use them from time to time and want to get good with them :wink:

(globalGale) #18

Its so sad, the garand and the kar where a 3 shot kill in WOLF:ET And yet, it had a good amount of hipfire on it, it could EASILY shoot people from a large distance. However the closest thing we have now is the DREISS-AR and all it does is just sort of wiff around

(CCP115) #19

Dreiss AR can two shot light classes. But here’s the thing, they are the fastest classes, and rarely is anyone able to land two headshots on a moving Aura. That is incredibly hard due to multiple factors.

Ok fine, so maybe you are the world’s most accurate person, but the Dreiss really needs some sort of minor buff, I don’t really know what though.

(CimyZPro) #20

[quote=“ThaiSan;22394”]
They are hard to use, but far from useless. One burst (which is 100% accurate from the hip) in the head will kill every light merc instantly.
15 per bullet x 2 for headshot x 3 for burst = 90 dmg with one click
so if you are good with headshots you can two-burst everything lower then Rhino.
That isn’t useless.[/quote]

They are inconsistent, you’re going to loose a fair amount of 1v1s just by not hitting the first burst. This makes them automatically way worse then they should be. Sure u can one hit light mercs, but u won’t be able to do it consistently.

And while it might be an okay trade (it’s not) against the light classes what about the 9 other classes that are currently in the game? Are you just going to ignore them and take your loss every time you encounter them?

Ease of use is a thing and it’s important at all skill level, it allows new players to have a weapon that’s rewarding even for their still limited understanding of the game and it gives better players the consistency to take 1v1s/2s (against equally skilled player).

The problem Arty and Kira both have is that their weapon setup consist of 3 hard to use weapons and even their abilities are way harder to use then any other ability in the game, simply because you have to either position your self smartly or expose yourself. And they’re limited by map design.

While I can understand the mindset behind the abilities and agree with their implantation in the game, both are arguably harder to use but have lower cooldowns and are stronger in certain situations and offer a different counter-play.
I just think they went overboard on the weapon part. A single easy to use weapon would help both classes in popularity and introduce new players to the more skilled aspects of the game without throwing them in cold water.