Why the bad type of F2P model?

[triteTongs]

The bad FP2 model that games like LoL and Dirty Bomb have. It feels like 10-20% of the game is “F2P”, the rest you have to pay or robotically grind months/years for.

No one is forcing you to robotically grind for months to attempt to get EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN A F2P GAME. You pick the characters you want to play.

If that’s your goal, then good luck. Seriously.

Blizzard Overwatch I guess will be the “Bad type of F2P” as well. Will you be upset about paying for a video game there too?

The only thing I suggested and will continue to suggest is simply adding a VIP boost system to the game. Once you pay over 10 bucks in the game (or buy a merc pack or something), you get 15-25% boost in credits PERMANENTLY.

[vivaciousCanteloupe]

As far as I know, TF2 was not F2P when it came out? only for a couple of years has it been F2P? If I am right, that FT2 for a long time was a “pay to play game”, then we can not used there business model to compare. It would be useless to compare the two.

@puceSandwich You may not like the game and the model but LoL´s (And I would add Hearthstone, cuz it too is called free to play but if you look at the time you must put into it in order to get the cards you need then HS is a joke.) model is not “bad” the game has millions of players and it makes a lot of money. Then it is a good model and then there model works! I really dislike it! But when it works it will be used!

[Kouken]

Because greed and IMO shortsightedness

The current model encourages people to play the “free” class which causes a HUGE imbalanced in gameplay (example Nader right now)

Micro-transactions should in no way affect gameplay, certainly not in a game that aims to be competitive

The purchase of Mercs in its current state is a clear early stage cash grab that is shortsighted and will turn away a large portion of the FPS community and with Overwatch coming soon you really cant afford to start out like this.

Grow the community first with a free game (or even a p2p one) and once the base is built, charge crazy $ for micro-transactions that DO NOT affect gameplay. People happily pay crazy amounts of $ for skins/effects in games they enjoy and support. (see: csgo, poe, tf2 etc)

Expensive micro-transactions for gameplay elements are a greedy move from the publishers and will hider the possibly of this amazing game sticking around for the long haul

I love this game and would hate to see it fail like so many before it because of greedy practices

[Ardez1]

This is probably the 10th thread where it broke down into an argument about comparing this game to TF2, DOTA 2, LoL.

You just can’t compare those to DB. They are in no way the same.

[LiNkz]

[quote=“Ardez;19449”]This is probably the 10th thread where it broke down into an argument about comparing this game to TF2, DOTA 2, LoL.

You just can’t compare those to DB. They are in no way the same.[/quote]

They are just comparing the models of f2p and what is “F2P”

I agree it’s stupid that the mercs are costing money to unlock and a lot too compared to how much you get actual “value” since they aren’t unique enough, sharing weapons and then you have to also get a nice loadout and so on.

I’m going to play this for long time to come, since balance patches have been on point, I’m skeptical how will they market the game and are they not planning to change their current system.

[watsyurdeal]

Mercs definitely need to be cheaper imo, at least 25000 for people like Fletcher and Bush.

So what if you can get a new merc with just credits every 2 weeks? There’s going to be 22 mercs in this game, and you only start with 2, so basically you’d have to play for 10 months to unlock all the Mercs, without getting any loadout cards but the ones you get from cases.

Or…you spend like, 20 bucks and get 4 that you actually want or like and get the others later with your next paycheck.

[Ardez1]

As a heads up to ANY players who intend to put time into this game -

You can earn 54,000 CREDITS per month with ONLY daily missions, leaving the remainder of credits earned for loadouts ~ Not including case drops.

This means you can earn 1 50k credit merc in LESS than a month with only an hour or two every day/every other day of playtime.

If you don’t want to sign in every other day you can always just do most of the missions and then binge play the remainder

Either way, 50k is a totally reachable goal for credits ~ long term. If you don’t have the time to put in the effort for credits, then maybe you make enough money to buy the merc you want in the first place and take out the grind?

EDIT: The 54k is based on a 30 day month btw.

[puceSandwich]

[quote=“puceSandwich;10724”] The bad FP2 model that games like LoL and Dirty Bomb have. It feels like 10-20% of the game is “F2P”, the rest you have to pay or robotically grind months/years for.

No one is forcing you to robotically grind for months to attempt to get EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN A F2P GAME. You pick the characters you want to play.
[/quote]

What if I want to play them all? Its a “competitive game” and I have a huge disadvantage towards players who have paid for every chatacter at this moment. What you are saying is casual player logic, I am not a casual player. I want the whole game for free or for a price.

No I am not going spend 10-15€ for every single character getting released, give me a allpack price and we talk.

[quote=“Kouken;19426”]Because greed and IMO shortsightedness

The current model encourages people to play the “free” class which causes a HUGE imbalanced in gameplay (example Nader right now)

Micro-transactions should in no way affect gameplay, certainly not in a game that aims to be competitive

The purchase of Mercs in its current state is a clear early stage cash grab that is shortsighted and will turn away a large portion of the FPS community and with Overwatch coming soon you really cant afford to start out like this.

Grow the community first with a free game (or even a p2p one) and once the base is built, charge crazy $ for micro-transactions that DO NOT affect gameplay. People happily pay crazy amounts of $ for skins/effects in games they enjoy and support. (see: csgo, poe, tf2 etc)

Expensive micro-transactions for gameplay elements are a greedy move from the publishers and will hider the possibly of this amazing game sticking around for the long haul

I love this game and would hate to see it fail like so many before it because of greedy practices

[/quote]

+1 at everything, I dont get developers who say that their game is “free” and then want a huge payout for 90% of the game. Either say its free or say it has a price for the full game.

[Viquel]

[quote=“puceSandwich;19532”]I dont get developers who say that their game is “free” and then want a huge payout for 90% of the game. Either say its free or say it has a price for the full game.
[/quote]

have you spent the last 7-ish years under a rock? Welcome to 2015 buddy:

[watsyurdeal]

The only thing I really have an issue with is paying for Beta Testing

Why are we testing mercs and having to pay for them or wait for the rotation???

If this were a full release, I’d understand, but this is still in closed Beta.

[coruscate]

[quote=“majesticClue;19551”]The only thing I really have an issue with is paying for Beta Testing

Why are we testing mercs and having to pay for them or wait for the rotation???

If this were a full release, I’d understand, but this is still in closed Beta.[/quote]

Since there wont be any wipes it isnt necessary to treat us special, since the new mercs get into the rotation a lot of the guys that dont got the creditz for dem mercs will play them and test them properly just as the guys who are super serious about the game

[Ardez1]

[quote=“majesticClue;19551”]The only thing I really have an issue with is paying for Beta Testing

Why are we testing mercs and having to pay for them or wait for the rotation???

If this were a full release, I’d understand, but this is still in closed Beta.[/quote]

Because Alienware didn’t just give away several thousands keys to ANYBODY who would ask? Because they haven’t been giving away keys like crazy over the last 2-3 months?

The pack is there for those that want it. It is a good deal and worth the money. You don’t buy the pack for beta access unless you are too lazy to signup for any of the number of key giveaways(They send out keys every single week from the DB signup). Besides, the mercs alone are worth it. The credits are a huge bonus. The pack is designed for people who have more money than available time really(or motivation).

The key is totally secondary and the pack supports development.

[Runeforce1]

[quote=“majesticClue;19551”]The only thing I really have an issue with is paying for Beta
Why are we testing mercs and having to pay for them or wait for the rotation???
If this were a full release, I’d understand, but this is still in closed Beta.[/quote]
This is a common misconception amongst new beta participants. You are not paying for testing the mercs. Each merc has already been tested for thousand upon thousand upon thousand of hours. That phase ended 6-12 months ago (and up untill the end of that phase all beta testers had access to all the mercs.) They are ready for sale. What you are testing is stuff like the UI, credit earn rates, loadout cards, matchmaking and the transaction system (and occasionally new maps and game modes.) The rest of the system, especially the fundamentals, are thoroughly tested. But of course minor tweaks will still happen.

[incisiveDetour]

What you want the whole gaming core experience for free ? While I understand your point, you must realize that this kind of game doesn’t and probably won’t have the same audience size as the big players (Battlefield or Dota / TF2 level), so betting on cosmetics wouldn’t make it.
I’d prefer that the F2P experience acts as a demo of some kind, and if you really dig it, you can buy the game with all the mercs. It is not the model right now, but asking for everything important for free and asking the paying stuff to be just cosmetics feels like insulting devs work imho. But I can’t blame you, because we have been brainwashed with this kind of model recently, which I despise.
At least give me the opportunity to get all mercs / full content for a proper full game price, so that I don’t have to feel like I am playing supermarket. I play games to enjoy the full experience.

[B_Montiel]

I feel like there’s an issue right now on how make players keep playing. After much discuss and balance from the devs, grinding seems pretty fair right now. If you compare it to LoL (which is to me the most successful non valve related system right now), for around the same ammount of time grinding in-game credits, you’d have unlocked the same numbers of merc/heroes. And for those who can’t bear grinding, starter pack always seemed to me like more than a fair deal. More than the necessary mercs you need to have a rounded roaster available for a fairly decent price.
The thing is, people seems to expect more than what’s available right now. Once you’ve got the merc you’re looking for and those bronze+ loadouts that seems adequate from your point of view, you don’t have any reason to spend more in-game or real currency on something.
But we can’t neglect the fact that the game is still supposed to be in closed beta. Crates are still not buyable through a real/in-game money exchange system. On this current stage, I don’t think they are going to add anything. Logically, I guess they will do major additions on the cozmetikzzz/market/trading/whateverpeopleliketoexpect during the open beta or final release states. In a nut shell, patience will be rewarded, or, at least, I really hope so.

[puceSandwich]

[quote=“incisiveDetour;19833”]What you want the whole gaming core experience for free ? While I understand your point, you must realize that this kind of game doesn’t and probably won’t have the same audience size as the big players (Battlefield or Dota / TF2 level), so betting on cosmetics wouldn’t make it.
I’d prefer that the F2P experience acts as a demo of some kind, and if you really dig it, you can buy the game with all the mercs. It is not the model right now, but asking for everything important for free and asking the paying stuff to be just cosmetics feels like insulting devs work imho. But I can’t blame you, because we have been brainwashed with this kind of model recently, which I despise.
At least give me the opportunity to get all mercs / full content for a proper full game price, so that I don’t have to feel like I am playing supermarket. I play games to enjoy the full experience.[/quote]

If they cant give me the game for free atleast as you said give me an option to pay for the FULL GAME for 30-35€ or something. I am never ever going to spend 10€ for every new character getting released.

And people giving the “the game cant survive on cosmetics with a low playerbase”, yeah if you think about that with any business what is the point of making a game then? Spalsh Damage is obviously trying to get a high playerbase as possible.

If Nexon/Splash Damage dosent do anything about this model I cant see it surviving against TF2 2.0/Overwatch.

[MissMurder1]

Appreciate all the input on this. We know it’s a popular discussion right now and we’re taking all feedback into account.

[Ardez1]

I don’t think the F2P model is that bad, it just needs to be supplemented properly. The prices would be fine if it was easier to earn credits. That has already been address by @MissMurder . If you add cosmetics to the current system and reduced the price of cases it would be much better.

The credit sink that is Loadouts is way too strong for the current value of mercs. You can’t earn mercs AND loadouts effectively right now, only one or the other. It is fairly obvious that buying cases is not worth it at all compared to the price of mercs. 50 Cases shouldn’t equal 1 merc.

[_Sniff]

I think being able to see the possible weapons/loadouts would help people determine which merc they want to purchase.

[MissMurder1]

@Ardez hoping the next update will alleviate some of the pain of earning credits. @Sniff good point as well.