Why no team damage?

(Amerika) #61

[quote=“MTLMortis;67099”][quote=“Amerika;67080”]
For all the people posting in this thread that says they would like it on you can bet there would be hundreds rage posting that people were TK’ing in their server or going off about how bad a player is and showing screenshots etc or how spammy the game is because people keep doing to FF. And also, how bad would the new player experience be if they ended up on an FF On server and started throwing out Skyhammer strikes on CD. Sure, they might learn…or they might just quit the game after getting yelled at a ton. All of that negativity is avoided with FF being Off for pubs.

Again, I’m all for having options (even in pubs) to turn FF On. But it’s not hard to understand why that is a particular headache that SD would like to avoid.[/quote]

Traditionally FF servers for any FPS always had a TK limit before you were auto-kicked or banned.[/quote]

I’m very aware of this :slight_smile: It still doesn’t change how people treat/react/abuse things though. And this is a F2P game where initial reaction is crucial towards player retention and keeping the lights on for developers. Spending hours getting banned and people yelling at you before you learn not to do a few things is something that I can understand a developer would want to avoid. As is giving mercs certain abilities and then not allowing you to use them realistically without potentially getting TK’s that were caused by other people being dumb (Skyhammer airstrike on an EV for example).

Like I said, I have my opinion of what I want. But I fully understand all the different issues as to why the game is mostly FF Off (for now) in a F2P title with lots of explosions on smallish maps.

(Gi.Am) #62

@Amerika cough, cough

[quote=“Gi.Am;66874”]While I’m certainly on the hardline when it comes to the benefits of ff-on and do hold the opinion that this should be the default.

It doesn’t need to be.

And I seriously don’t see why we don’t have 1-5 servers per region by now. ff-on is a simple server ini flag (ON/OFF). Take them out of the quickjoin list, state that they are ff-on in the server name, add a level 10 gate, if you must.
And done.

Everybody is happy. The game has a votekick and if that isn’t enough to control trolling, we still can play on the ff-off servers. Not much harm in 1-5 empty servers is there?[/quote]

Doing all this would ensure that ff-on servers are a thing that people have to look out for, only avaible through the server browser, level gated to ensure no newbs stumble in. Would pretty much aliviate all the suggested griefing problems. FF-on would be complete opt-in.

The frustrating thing is, everything for this is readly avaible, we already have level gated servers, the team already can manipulate the quickjoin server list, ff-on is already in the game. All that is needed is an hour or two for someone to configure it.

(ttownjoe) #63

[quote=“MarsRover;66760”]FF in an fast, explosive-heavy game with almost zero voicechat, where 95% new players play Skyhammer, who could wipe the entire team in one airstrike. It’s an absolutely terrible idea.

Tournaments etc. - do whatever you like. But pubs and normal competitive - please no.

No chance in hell.

Just like cheaters and afkers are dealt with now, right? :neutral:
[/quote]

My arguments are bassed on QW, ET, RTCW were FF worked extremely well and was the preferred server option by the majority of the community. People claiming that FF is bad is just their personal preference and can’t stick to their FF off servers.

(Szakalot) #64

Don’t give ammo -> your teammates use secondaries and die -> you die.
Don’t revive -> no backup -> you die.
5 people repairing, zero cover -> you die.
Other people strafe way faster than you in a firefight -> you die.

“People will learn” - oh I wish it was true…[/quote]

these are advanced gameplay concepts. just like people will complain about no teamwork when their team is getting shreded. More often than not, it has nothing to do with teamwork but simply being outgunned. And when your teammates die around you, there is no one to revive/do reviving/give ammo etc.; flanks are falling and you get backstabbed (no cover from teammates - well their dead, so duh), etc. etc.

Whereas running into airstrike gives you a direct ‘don’t do that’ sign.

In any case, I don’t think any FF proponents argues that ALL servers MUST have FF-on. We just want the option. Atm. the option isn’t there, and it kills the game for us, cause we know how much more depth DB has to offer when you can’t just play it like TDM.

I’ll risk any griefing, just give us a few FF-on minlvl10 servers.

(Amerika) #65

[quote=“Gi.Am;67132”]@Amerika cough, cough

[quote=“Gi.Am;66874”]While I’m certainly on the hardline when it comes to the benefits of ff-on and do hold the opinion that this should be the default.

It doesn’t need to be.

And I seriously don’t see why we don’t have 1-5 servers per region by now. ff-on is a simple server ini flag (ON/OFF). Take them out of the quickjoin list, state that they are ff-on in the server name, add a level 10 gate, if you must.
And done.

Everybody is happy. The game has a votekick and if that isn’t enough to control trolling, we still can play on the ff-off servers. Not much harm in 1-5 empty servers is there?[/quote]

Doing all this would ensure that ff-on servers are a thing that people have to look out for, only avaible through the server browser, level gated to ensure no newbs stumble in. Would pretty much aliviate all the suggested griefing problems. FF-on would be complete opt-in.

The frustrating thing is, everything for this is readly avaible, we already have level gated servers, the team already can manipulate the quickjoin server list, ff-on is already in the game. All that is needed is an hour or two for someone to configure it.[/quote]

I am confused why you are coughing at me haha.

Also, private servers will most definitely have the option to turn on FF. And that could potentially lead to some pub servers being set to FF On.

(MissMurder) #66

Talks of FF are still happening just so you all are aware. If it does happen, like some of you said, it may just be for Competitive Matchmaking at first. We will be relying on community feedback to see if it has a place anywhere else.

(B_Montiel) #67

Don’t give ammo -> your teammates use secondaries and die -> you die.
Don’t revive -> no backup -> you die.
5 people repairing, zero cover -> you die.
Other people strafe way faster than you in a firefight -> you die.

“People will learn” - oh I wish it was true…[/quote]

these are advanced gameplay concepts. just like people will complain about no teamwork when their team is getting shreded. More often than not, it has nothing to do with teamwork but simply being outgunned. And when your teammates die around you, there is no one to revive/do reviving/give ammo etc.; flanks are falling and you get backstabbed (no cover from teammates - well their dead, so duh), etc. etc.

Whereas running into airstrike gives you a direct ‘don’t do that’ sign.

In any case, I don’t think any FF proponents argues that ALL servers MUST have FF-on. We just want the option. Atm. the option isn’t there, and it kills the game for us, cause we know how much more depth DB has to offer when you can’t just play it like TDM.

I’ll risk any griefing, just give us a few FF-on minlvl10 servers.[/quote]

I totally agree.

To add some ideas, an other annoying thing about FF OFF is that it somehow shreds off parts of the balance of the game. With FF OFF, the most efficient supports will always be Skyhammer and probably Stoker when he’ll get released, simply because they provide fire walls to team mates. Arty and kira, meanwhile, especially the first named, with more located AoEs, are sitting ducks. In W:ET, both support abilities (for unaware people, both arty and skyhammer look alike strikes were available with the same support class) had specific purposes due to (at some extent) friendly fire entering in consideration. You can’t land a full airstrike when team mates NEED to be around your target. With FF ON, Skyhammer starts to get less attractive due to the high stakes of TK. Supports are probably the best example, but assault are also impacted due to their explosive abilities. I know this might sound a bit too much for public games but, anyway… I still think same class mercs should be on par on public games. I am dreaming, I know.

(JesseKomm) #68

There are many ways it could be implemented if it is heavily considered by the development team. In the case of public matches we can see the following options:

  1. Friendly Fire could be a server specific option.
  2. Friendly Fire could be a server vote in the lobby/pre-game phases. This would allow people who are comfortable with FF to choose to have it, and if not, they may choose to leave the match before it begins. I’d say between matches it should always revert to being off, so that way if a server empties after a match then it will not be a “FF On” server for the next people that join.
(Jurmabones) #69

I think having FF as a search option when looking for servers would be great. So there’s some servers with FF and some without, and they’ll only show up in your server list if you choose FF to show.

On that note, how about adding filters for max 5/min 10 too? -.-

(LANshark) #70

This would give me so many headaches until i learn to slow down. or until people stop walking in front of me when i am using explosives.

(TheDoctorHax) #71

One way to fix the issue of FF on or off is to allow people to make their own dedicated/private servers and let them change the option there. Comp and pubs dont have to change. I know for a fact that this would be disastrous in pubs, with people having no fucking clue what theyre doing and killing the entire team over and over. I CAN see it in comp but even then it could be heavily abused by trolls. And even though im sure that a kick after x number of tks system would be implemented to stop trolls, in comp if you lose someone its enough to sway the game in detriment to the team who lost the tker. Plus some of your team just died to a person being a dick who is breaking the main rule of the game anyways and should be banned.

(Aazhyd) #72

No FF in pubs, ever, please.

(Ghosthree3) #73

I’m all for it in 5v5 competitive matches. Can’t really see how that can backfire except for trolls.

But in big ass pub servers where everyone runs around doing whatever the hell they want, yeah, I’d rather keep enjoying the game.

(Szakalot) #74

Whats wrong with having a few servers with FF on? it could easily be stated in the sever name, no random pubber would come in and start spraying teammates

(Ghosthree3) #75

Don’t mind if only a couple do, just don’t make it universal. And max level 5 servers should obviously have it off.

(Eox) #76

I’m okay with friendly fire as long as you are free to choose between a FF server and a non-FF server, at least in non-competitive matches.

(Dirmagnos) #77

FF should be in, at least as an option. Maybe a mandatory vote at the beginning of the game, where only voted votes count, not their correlation to total number of players.
It never has been a problem in any of the games be4, in fact they benefit from it.
Grifing is more of a selfsorting issue, where idiots simply get kicked out. Main problem would be, yet again, farming, where players would harm teammates to heal them to farm support exp. Maybe penalties for 2 much team damage dealt per period of time and whole game could fix that.

(globalGale) #78

Friendly fire is what made me play WOLF:ET in the first place, Being able to just pop a teammate in the head and get him back up to go in a jiffy by jabbing a needle where the sun don’t shine really helps getting things rolling. Also the cover ops couldn’t do jack with friendly fire turned off lol.

It would have a rough start but because the community has been spoiled and got a diffirent impression of how the game should have been in my opinion, they’ve been used to being able to just throw explosives around like no other. It removes an entire layer of tactics and a complete element of gameplay.

As a dev you want to be able to realise the best game you can make with the resources around. and with just a single server option being there ( FF-on pubs should quickly become the norm, after the true obj and oldschool vets see that they can play OBJ-EEK-TIVE instead of tdm) You can add so much to the game, whil’st the people who dislike it?

Just joing a FF-off server. There’s server filters for a reason. it worked fine in any game that ran it. why not just give us the option to run it as we like too?

(yusayu) #79

Either make it ON for everyone or OFF for everyone. The game has to be balanced for one of those ways, cant be balanced for both. People WILL come and cry, if there is FF ON and FF OFF servers, just because some merc is useless/OP/overplayed on their favorite setting. There WILL be ridiculous ideas of how to balance the game in a way that the game should be balanced for both which will end up suggesting that half the balance-changes should only affect FF On servers and the other half FF Off servers, yadda yadda

(Ghosthree3) #80

You can’t balance around friendly fire. Nothing would change in that regard.