Why is vanilla soldier worthless?

(Erik-Ftn) #41

Have to chip in here. :smiley:

IMO, SMG soldier is a good choice in at least one circumstance.

You’re on a pub server with 30+ players. Combat is waging deep into both teams territorries -> there is almost no safe spot in the relevant parts of the map.

You want to get up to an important position (eg side entrance on radar with commandpost not yet built, or where the old city definitely ends in oasis for allies) and do some serious damage/ defending of that spot (heavy weapons)

You’re not yet lvl4 soldier (smg+heavy w) so to get safely to the front you need to pack your trusted smg, and since there is so much ppl on the server you can be sure there is heavy weapons lying around at the front. (or even: the one you used before you got wasted )

Then you can switch heavy w as battle wages and you need to go from eg mg to panzer if you’re attacking. Though once that defence choke is down you want to advance and to do that safely, pick up that stray smg on the ground, defend yourself as a part of the advancing team and then at the next scene pick up whatever heavy w you can find/ is useful.

my point -> the flexibility is the strength, a heavy w soldier without a smg is a sitting duck for an experienced opponent.

You can use this to your aggressive advantage: be a smg soldier in a tunnel, waste the front panzer/ flamer before he gets you (not very hard even if you spot each other at the same time), he drops his heavy w, pick it up and waste/push back his pals (which are already backing off), pick up your smg again and you’re ready for one-to-one combat.

IMO soldiers are (or at least should be) the ones pushing the front forward, clearing mg towers, making certain areas no-go for the other team, to move safely between such positions, having a smg is a great relief.

(Gump) #42

What would have been cool, or would be cool if they ever chose to do it, would’ve been to give the soldier a better smg, like the BAR or something. Then an SMG soldier would have a little bit of a point as well as giving the newer players a better gun to learn with.

(funkPig) #43

I’d still like to see the soldier to get the extra health that the medic has rather than the medic. It seems backwards to me. I;m sure though, the game play is much better the way it is…

(schmeisser) #44

As a recent graduate of complete noobhood, I quickly realized that SMG soldier must have been intended as a training device. If you can’t survive a 1 on 1 firefight, you aren’t much good for your team, regardless of what class you play. I ran around clueless for a month or so. This is a complex game with minimal info built into it for new players. I still suck at 1 on 1, but I don’t get wasted immediately, every time, like I used to. I have found a niche as a mobile MG42 soldier, and I know I’ve helped win a few maps by sheer dogged persistence in hammering opposition choke points. I’ve started dabbling in Engineer and Medic, and at least I do no harm, and occasionally do some good. Cut the noob generation some slack and let us learn the game.

(The_Jesus_Zeppelin) #45

i can barly survive 1v1 fights with rambo medics, but when i do win. its oh so satisfying. because then i know, everyone on their team is completly vulnerable for another 10 to 20 seconds.
MWA HA HA HA HA

(ConchMan) #46

As it is now, the smg soldier is the guy without any special skills. Any player can pick up the ammo from their team’s smg. Being able to also pick up the nme’s smg is not nearly as useful and being able to drop medkits/call airstrikes/build stuff/steal uniforms.

An smg is at a significant disadvantage. Sure, he starts with more ammo, but considering how often ppl fill up on ammo at the ammo cabinets and then get killed before even finishing one clip, the smg soldier having more ammo is only an advantage if he lives long enough to reload. That’s probably not gonna happen. Smg soldier needs something to differentiate himself as well as validate him being there.

It’s not acceptable, IMO, to say he’s that class for newbs cause (as far as I can tell) newbs don’t pick smg soldier. I surely didn’t. And no matter what class you are, ppl are still gonna use abusive language with newbs. Remember that many really good players are also impatient younger ppl who have no lives and nothing to do other than school and that’s partly why they became good players.

As it is, the soldier class moves much more slowly with a heavy weapon active. Why not make him move a bit faster than any other starting class when his heavy weapon is not active (or he has an smg). That way, if you are really interested in making ppl who are new to the game more comfortable, the game can feel a bit more “quake-ish”. After all, with all the medkits/ammo packs/mines/dynomites/satchels the other classes carry, isn’t it logical that they shouldn’t be able to move faster than the guy who only has an smg.

Or, since he’s a soldier, and obviously spent all his military training learning how to use weapons instead of learning how to revive/build stuff/call airstrike/undress opfor, let his smg fire a bit more accurately than any other class. He’s a soldier, after all. He’s supposed to frag and that’s all he does.

These are some solutions that I think provide the most balance without giving the soldier too much advantage.

(SCDS_reyalP) #47

Not to mention that medics, field ops and engineers can already pick up enemy SMGs.

My question is still, from a gameplay point of view, why do people want the SMG soldier useful ? How would this make the game more challenging/interesting/exciting ?

(BlackDeath) #48

Not to mention that medics, field ops and engineers can already pick up enemy SMGs.

My question is still, from a gameplay point of view, why do people want the SMG soldier useful ? How would this make the game more challenging/interesting/exciting ?[/quote]

It wouldnt…thats the point

SMG sold. helps total n00bs out at the beginning, gives them some place to start without giving them dangerous airstrikes to throw around the place.

As for making the SMG soldier useful…why jeapordize throwing balance out of whack because you simply want to make something different without reason.

(ConchMan) #49

Did I actually read that correctly. You’re saying that making a useless class useful will not enhance gaemplay and balance. In case you didn’t notice, ET is not balanced. Since when does an unstoppable team of medics (plus one engy) constitute balance?

Honestly, I’ve seen many absolute 1st timers on ET. I’ve never seen any of them pick the smg soldier. Total newbs don’t even know there is an smg soldier. U can’t say smg soldier is to break in the newbs cause there is nothing to encourage them to use two extra clicks to specifically choose that class.

Making the smg soldier useful will make the game more interesting because it will validate his being there in the game at all. Having one more class that is useful, and appropriately balanced with the other classes naturally translates into more in-depth, strategic gameplay. Having classes lying around that don’t do anything except waste space doesn’t help the game and that’s why threads on the smg soldier exist at all.

What do you do when your map has extra brushes lying around that don’t really serve a purpose? You either delete them or find an adequate use for them.

(SCDS_reyalP) #50

I didn’t say that it would or wouldn’t. I just see a lot of people saying the SMG soldier should be like this or that, but not explaining how they think it would make the game better.

You example of a team of meds + one eng is pure BS. That doesn’t work on pubs or matches (hint: non SMG soldiers are excellent at killing meds and gibbing bodies). In any case, the med being (arguably) overpowered has little to do with the SMG soldier.

Making the SMG soldier valid could add more viable strategies. Depending how it was done, it could make the game better or worse. However, I don’t see them being useless as a glaring flaw in the current balance. Since the chance of any of the classes getting rebalanced is within a hair of zero, I’m happy to leave it that way.

Honestly, I’ve seen many absolute 1st timers on ET. I’ve never seen any of them pick the smg soldier. Total newbs don’t even know there is an smg soldier. U can’t say smg soldier is to break in the newbs cause there is nothing to encourage them to use two extra clicks to specifically choose that class.

I have never felt that noobs need to be SMG soldiers (though I have seen a fair few who did). IMO, it doesn’t matter what class they use.

(ConchMan) #51

You’re right about that. I doubt anyone is gonna actually sit down and create another official update no matter how many things we find that aren’t quite right in the game. it is free after all. i guess it’s up to the modders.

I’d do it myself except i have no idea where to start and many many tutorials to read.

(Erik-Ftn) #52

(pardon any repetition from further up this thread)

IMO a soldier is an infantryman which spent most of his training learning eg how to use light and heavy weapons, how to move tactically in group across a battlefield, how to efficiently clear, secure and hold a target area. No other player class have the same battlefield combat experience as the soldier from start and the game characteristics that reflect such greater soldiering experience from start would be

faster reload
higher accuracy
more nades
faster running pace
smaller hitbox esp. when crouched or prone
more hp
spotting nearby mines

now, this is mostly what is covered in the light weapons and battle sense skills lvl1-4,

suggestion:
IMO it would be realistic for a smg soldier to have an automatic +1 bonus in both those skills, perhaps even adding a lvl5 that only smg soldiers can have.

that lvl5 skill could realistically be:

for light weapons: a number of smoke nades (underused as it is), smoke is, properly used, really useable in certain situations.
for battle sense: even more fitness (sprinting), maybe even a lot more fitness

Another (maybe easier) option is just giving the smokenades and extra fitness to all smg soldiers. (in addition to +1 for both skills ??)

It would be realistic to assume that actually carrying (though not holding) a heavy weapon would cancel out the extra fitness.

Getting the smokenades (ammowise) could either be associated with beeing a smg soldier from start or beeing a smg soldier and picking up ammo, or alternatively just be linked to beeing a lvl4 soldier and picking up a smg , the nades proportionally in number to the smg ammo.

Erik

(The_Jesus_Zeppelin) #53

look the game is balanced, its the people that play ti that arnt, its a multi player game. stop blaming the game for what other people/teams do.

(Cyber-Knight) #54

yeah, i hate it when ppl hog the ammo in the cabinets.

I only take up to a maximum of 30(60) ammo.

And i ahte it when a mortar decides to hog all the ammo. especially on Fuel Dump