Why I'm probably out

(Kendle) #1

I’m usually not a fan of “I’m leaving” threads, they imply my being here was worthwhile in the first place, and I’m not sure it has been, I’ve not exactly provided tonnes of valuable feedback in my time here. However, rather than just fading away as most people seem to do I thought it might be worth something to jot down why I think I’m going to be doing the same.

I have a lot of concerns with the game, and it’s easy to write them off as “oldskooler can’t adapt”. I’m an RTCW player who drifted through ET because everyone else did then went off and played non-objective games for years rather than the aberration that was ET:QW. It would be easy to say I don’t like “this” game because it’s not “that” game, but I honestly don’t think that’s the case.

Many of my concerns I know are shared with lots of other people here, spawn times and maps probably being the “big 2” that get mentioned a lot of the time, but actually for me there’s another big deal-breaker that I don’t seem to be able to get past (or accept that I should).

Class-less Objectives and Proficiencies.

In practice, each “class” being able to do everything but only being proficient at one, means most of the things anyone can do they can only do badly. The result is many classes spend a chunk of their time doing stuff they’re not very good at, to the detriment of their team, and the game.

What made RTCW and it’s successors work wasn’t that the Engineer was “better” at planting the bomb than other classes, it was that the other classes couldn’t plant the bomb. This generally promoted team-work and ensured most people didn’t waste their time doing stuff they weren’t suited for. Engineers were needed rather than “nice to have”, and Medics didn’t leave their Engineer lying on the ground whilst they attempted to (slowly) defuse the bomb themselves.

I do understand why the decision was made to move to class-less objectives, I can imagine the focus group at SD sitting around a table and discussing the idea over coffee and cookies, and thinking how it could work with the Merc system and form the basis of their monetisation model (a necessary component of a F2P game). But IMHO it hasn’t worked, it fundamentally undermines the objective nature of the game.

Everything that has happened since has been a reaction to a bad decision. I’ve posted this before, but it sums up for me how DB is being developed :-

//youtu.be/EVkYaZXCl8U

I know it’s too late to change this, the decision’s made, and SD will have to live with it. But I can’t see myself playing a true objective game where everyone can do every objective and most of them can only do it badly.

So, I guess I’ll check in from time to time, as I have been doing the last several months anyway, but my hopes for this game have pretty much disappeared.

(stealth6) #2

//youtu.be/rY0WxgSXdEE

This alpha / beta has been a wild ride so far. This is the first game I’ve followed since the start, do things always go this way with the community or is this exceptional?

(tokamak) #3

Whether it’s permanent or temporary, the classless objectives seem like a necessity as long as we don’t have a balanced and diverse group of mercs to pick from. Without it the testing results will be less meaningful.

(BomBaKlaK) #4

[QUOTE=Kendle;512208]Many of my concerns I know are shared with lots of other people here, spawn times and maps probably being the “big 2” that get mentioned a lot of the time, but actually for me there’s another big deal-breaker that I don’t seem to be able to get past (or accept that I should).

Class-less Objectives and Proficiencies.

In practice, each “class” being able to do everything but only being proficient at one, means most of the things anyone can do they can only do badly. The result is many classes spend a chunk of their time doing stuff they’re not very good at, to the detriment of their team, and the game.

What made RTCW and it’s successors work wasn’t that the Engineer was “better” at planting the bomb than other classes, it was that the other classes couldn’t plant the bomb. This generally promoted team-work and ensured most people didn’t waste their time doing stuff they weren’t suited for. Engineers were needed rather than “nice to have”, and Medics didn’t leave their Engineer lying on the ground whilst they attempted to (slowly) defuse the bomb themselves.

I do understand why the decision was made to move to class-less objectives, I can imagine the focus group at SD sitting around a table and discussing the idea over coffee and cookies, and thinking how it could work with the Merc system and form the basis of their monetisation model (a necessary component of a F2P game). But IMHO it hasn’t worked, it fundamentally undermines the objective nature of the game.

Everything that has happened since has been a reaction to a bad decision. I’ve posted this before, but it sums up for me how DB is being developed :-

I know it’s too late to change this, the decision’s made, and SD will have to live with it. But I can’t see myself playing a true objective game where everyone can do every objective and most of them can only do it badly.

So, I guess I’ll check in from time to time, as I have been doing the last several months anyway, but my hopes for this game have pretty much disappeared.[/QUOTE]

Same reasons … Classless is totally boring …
if maps were great why not, but both are only surrounded by bad design choices …

(rookie1) #5

Totally Agree
I guest i’m in the ‘fading away’ category :rolleyes:

(Kl3ppy) #6

Me too :rolleyes:

(spookify) #7

I just reinstalled after 2 weeks off…

I need another break… Frame loss with full servers is to much to over come for me.

(Glottis-3D) #8

sad but true post =((((

(INF3RN0) #9

Cool, so can we stop having a new thread every time then? This whole 'I’m quitting for the n’th time stuff is getting annoying.

(Glottis-3D) #10

what’s wrong with different threads?

(spookify) #11

There were some good points in it and stuff we have been saying for 2 years…

Yes its repetitive but its what a lot of us think and its hard to stick around.

(potty200) #12

Guys, I am going to start a “kickstarter” to invent a time machine so we can go back to the fireteam launcher, class based objectives, grenades for everyone and the best bit is there is no nexon!

I need your money but cannot promise I will be able to deliver this. Basically, just give me your money so it softens the blow of recent DB vs old DB :frowning:

(INF3RN0) #13

It’s old ‘school dribble’ at this point. The only thing people appear to agree about is class objectives, maps, and performance (and previously gun play). Let’s get more map discussions going besides the classic Bomba style feedback. Performance will come with time, but seriously spook you have more than double the FPS of every player and that’s your big issue (and no red dots ofc…)?? Class objectives is not the only way, and you have to realize its significance for the easily frustrated casual. We can all roll with the punishment and just throw out the ‘well I don’t have to worry about it in comp or clan wars’, but then you’re alienating the mass majority of gamers. The core of every bad part of the game is that it lacks interesting strategy or simply doesn’t motivate teamwork or obj focus, but there’s literally a million ways to achieve that and improve what we have. Pixel is one of the few posters I read because he at least makes open minded and original posts that are relevant to the game DB, and if I could ever muster it in myself to get as emotionally upset it would be for much of the same reasons.

(spookify) #14

[QUOTE=potty200;512244]Guys, I am going to start a “kickstarter” to invent a time machine so we can go back to the fireteam launcher, class based objectives, grenades for everyone and the best bit is there is no nexon!

I need your money but cannot promise I will be able to deliver this. Basically, just give me your money so it softens the blow of recent DB vs old DB :([/QUOTE]

Address or Link? That game sounds amazing!

I remember back in the day we complained about performance but that seemed due to maps.

We switched to nexon and we have had huge server and performance problems…

(spookify) #15

Yes me getting 75 frames is double what people get in a full server… That is pathetic… Half the stuff we complain about with warping or glitching is due to whatever this issue is or something to do with nexon…

I would love red dot!! :wink:

(potty200) #16

Even if we rounded up all of our opinions about the maps (again) they wouldn’t take notice and just give us the same sort of generic post (again).

I think it requires people to walk away to wake people up. So many people who invested their time in providing feedback and suggestions are basically being crapped on. Out of 100 suggestions/ideas/issues/whatever brought up on the forums. Maybe like 3-4 of those they act on? How many posts/topics has pixel made? Out of those, how many did SD take on board?

80% of the current community would like class objectives back.
75% of the current community want grenades all around.
100% of the community want better maps.

It would be interesting to see how many would like to see how many people want “augments” over skins as a way to generate money. I can’t see them working, I am not “woo’ed” by augments as much as I would be a wicked sick looking rifle skin.

(potty200) #17

[QUOTE=spookify;512247]Address or Link? That game sounds amazing!

I remember back in the day we complained about performance but that seemed due to maps.

We switched to nexon and we have had huge server and performance problems…[/QUOTE]

Cash in the post is fine! :smiley:

Yes me getting 75 frames is double what people get in a full server… That is pathetic… Half the stuff we complain about with warping or glitching is due to whatever this issue is or something to do with nexon…

I would love red dot!!

That is actually double mine! You bastard!!!

(prophett) #18

I feel the same as the OP. I was a hardcore ET player but I have also enjoyed many new (and many newer generation) games since I stopped playing ET in 2008. To say I don’t enjoy Dirty Domb because it is trying to be different is a weak argument. I’ve been holding on to the hope that I might someday really enjoy playing DB, but it feels like I am grasping at straws.

I also understand why they made the change to classless objectives but I have never really come to terms with it because classless isn’t as fun for me. I simply do not enjoy it. I just run around and frag aimlessly and it feels like “anyone can do it, but nobody cares to do it” vs having the “nobody is touching my mother****ing Engineer” mentality. I think the shift to classless has resulted in a loss of direction and teamwork toward that objective. Maybe it’s just me, but it certainly doesn’t feel like a “team based” fps because there is no need to support each other like you had to in previous titles in order to be successful.

I am sure some people will read “I was a hardcore ET player” and immediately chalk the rest of my reply up to old school mentality, and ignore it’s value as an honest criticism (free of nostalgia).

(Glottis-3D) #19

i dont see anything bad with oldschool.

and there is an old saying that “better is the enemy of the good”
the thing is that we didnt get ‘better’ while we did lost ‘good’ system (class objects).
it is not a proper way to develop something, where you disband something and do not impement anything better(or at least as good) in exchange.

(PixelTwitch) #20

Actually no…
The way you explained the issue with classless objectives better than anyone else I have seen on the forums…

“anyone can do it, but nobody cares to do it” vs having the “nobody is touching my mother****ing Engineer” mentality. I think the shift to classless has resulted in a loss of direction and teamwork toward that objective.