Why I Hate The Melee Changes...


(PixelTwitch) #1

Recently we saw the addition of a turn speed limit placed on melee strikes when in the section of the animation where damage is applied. The reason for this change was to prevent an exploit that would allow a player to spin around X number of times applying damage in a 360 degree area of effect around the player. While this has always been a possibility it really only came to the center of attention with the release of Phantom and most importantly the sword he comes equipped with.

My major concerns with the change really focuses on the fact that this nerfs certain none exploitative play styles more than others and it negatively effects the kinesthetics of gameplay interaction. First off, when looking at who it effects worse we need to understand what kind of players we are talking about. The current change results in more slowdown the faster that you move the mouse (kind of like negative acceleration on steroids) This simply means the quicker you move the mouse the slower you turn. Players that play on a very low sensitivity and rely heavily on wrist flicks to do large turns are punished more than players who play with more slowly controlled swipes. You don’t need to make a huge leap of faith to also come to the conclusion this also means the change effects higher skill players who play very quick than lower skilled players that generally play very slow. Moving on to the kinesthetics the problem should be fairly obvious. Quite a high number of your more advanced and regular players have crossed that line where they no longer think about moving their mouse or pressing a certain button and instead see it like looking in a certain direction and doing a certain thing. With immersion and mastery you hopefully always lose the feeling of interface and should never have to think about what your hands are doing. You become one with the game and you think about what you want to do rather than pressing buttons. Once you throw any sort of randomness or inconsistency into the pipeline you totally knock a players confidence and feeling of immersion. This can lead to lower average play times, increased frustration and slower individual skill improvements.

Dirty Bomb is suffering more multiple blockages in this pipeline though poorly implemented features and mechanics and it seems Splash Damage feel its a good idea to balance mechanics via adjusting their feel. This is very rarely a good idea. Stuff like…

[ul]
[li]Uncontrollable Aim Punch
[/li][li]Sniper Scope Sway
[/li][li]Random ADS center position
[/li][li]Clumsy Movement System
[/li][li]Melee Turn Speed Limit
[/li][li]Crouch Delay On Forward Sprinting
[/li][/ul]

There where multiple different options that would have worked just as well to remove any exploits. Such as limiting to X number of turns during a single melee animation, Having the half the damage on a melee strike only apply for a single frame, Only applying to the sword and cricket bat and even only having it on the secondary attack for all melee weapons. Once again we are in a position where out of all the viable options the worst one was chosen.

I hope to see the slowdown completely removed from the primary strike on all current melee weapons. Just because Splash Damage slightly reduced the slowdown in a recent patch does not mean its all good again now… Something being better now than it was last week does not excuse it for not being as good as it was a month ago. We saw this with the Aim Punch and Sniper Sway already… Don’t let this Melee Turn Limit be yet another poorly designed compromise.

Thank you…


(Phantomchan) #2

I’m already happy that they made the combat more fluid compared to the patch which introduced the limits. However, I do hope that the whole delay thing gets removed in the end.


(ARTiER) #3

I just stopped playing :slight_smile: . I cba anymore.


(DarkangelUK) #4

I don’t think we needed a 1000 word essay on how slowing down movement while performing a melee is bad, but A+ for effort anyway. (I agree btw)


(ispellcorrectly) #5

LOL!! <—this is all I wanted to type, but apparently my message had to be longer…


(fubar) #6

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PixelTwitch again.


(chickenNwaffles) #7

This.game would be bretty gud if it were being developed by like 20 pixel twitches.


(Glottis-3D) #8

preferably with 20 different hairstyles.


(poiuasd) #9

2 weeks ago the game was peaking over 10k players every day, now we’re down to 7,6k. That is quite a noticeable difference.


(Smooth) #10

What he said. TLDR, less is more, etc.

We’re looking in to improving melee further but these things do take a little time. We want to give the turn-speed limitation a proper try and let people get used to it before making any knee-jerk decisions. Anything that goes in will have an immediate backlash because people don’t like change and it’s unfortunate we couldn’t get the rest of the melee changes (attack-on-release, lunges, target slowdown, knock-backs, etc) we wanted in along-side it at the same time since they do compliment each other.

I’ll see what I can do by just tweaking values over future releases. Ideally we’d be able to try other systems, such a no limit on primary swings but instead doing zero/reduced damage if you turn too far. Right now though developer time is at a premium and this one little element is far from the biggest priority for us which is why tweaks are the most likely route in the short term.

While content creators keep working on Mercs and maps, things like anti-cheat, server performance, client performance, better matching systems and better team-balance etc. will continue to be the main areas of focus for our programmers. I think you can agree all of those are far more important when it comes to improving the experience of players in the Open Beta.


(Mustang) #11

Oh wow, this is clearly a far superior solution by comparison.

So wouldn’t it make more sense to spend more time looking at all the solutions, weighting up all the options, and eventually not wasting dev time on such a questionable solution. By the way before pulling out the hindsight response perhaps getting a little bit public opinion on things you think may be highly controversial would actually help save this wasted time.


(Glottis-3D) #12

“such a no limit on primary swings but instead doing zero/reduced damage if you turn too far”
dis is good.

and how about.
introducing dizziness, after 360+ ?

you should never limit the players input, this should be mandatory and womandatory!


(Ashog) #13

Dizziness clearly wouldn’t help round slashing - it’s a macro :slight_smile:


(Phantomchan) #14

Reminder that we don’t want this back again.

//youtu.be/hhLy2LSc3qA


(Szakalot) #15

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;535874]“such a no limit on primary swings but instead doing zero/reduced damage if you turn too far”
dis is good.[/quote]

yes, definitely better;

imo best way to communicate this to the player is by withdrawing the melee weapon inwards, off the screen. The more you sway around the more the weapon is withdrawn, and the least amount of damage is dealt.


(Mustang) #16

Did you ever play against anyone that did this?

Seems like it’s just a gimmick to me and easy to counter.


(Raviolay) #17

Will there be more melee mercs, (maybe one with a holographic decoy) and will you put in block/parry systems for melee combat (exitcuted with the second ability slot).


(Phantomchan) #18

[QUOTE=Mustang;535882]Did you ever play against anyone that did this?

Seems like it’s just a gimmick to me and easy to counter.[/QUOTE]

It was more than a gimmick to be honest, jump in a group of 4 and do two attacks and kill them all. And yes, I had one pre-limitation patch and he rekt people easily. It’s now not possible anymore due to the smaller damage window.


(Mustang) #19

Exactly, it’s possible to prevent without any restrictions to mouse movement.


(Protekt1) #20

[QUOTE=Phantomchan;535878]Reminder that we don’t want this back again.

//youtu.be/hhLy2LSc3qA
[/QUOTE]

Even without that I felt like swinging back and forth I could hit several people during the animation.