Why do so many players not push

(Szakalot) #41

[QUOTE=chenapan;529152]why do you bother to answer to say nonsense ?
it is stupid to bang your head on the wall to break it, even if eventually it will… it is not stupid however to get take a hammer and destroy it…; see what i mean ? as human beings we are supposed to have the ability to think and to try different things…
i just said it feels stupid to push in db because it lacks option to make the game move forward, and this lack of option is entirely related to map design[/QUOTE]

as attackers the onlay way to make the game move forward is by pushing. Nobody is saying that you should charge headfirst into 5 enemies, but if you stay back and take single potshots dealind 20 damage per minute, well you are doing it wrong.

(Protekt1) #42

[QUOTE=chenapan;529152]why do you bother to answer to say nonsense ?
it is stupid to bang your head on the wall to break it, even if eventually it will… it is not stupid however to get take a hammer and destroy it…; see what i mean ? as human beings we are supposed to have the ability to think and to try different things…
i just said it feels stupid to push in db because it lacks option to make the game move forward, and this lack of option is entirely related to map design[/QUOTE]

By all means, try winning without being aggressive. Go ahead and rack up your KDR while your w/l ratio plummets (or more likely, remains bad).

(chenapan) #43

comon guysn are you playing dumb on purpose ?
it is obvious that as attacker we need to push, in order to win, this all thread is about this subject and the problematic fact that some players are not.
I was just trying to search some reasons for this.
If there is this behaviour it is maybe not only that the players are more interested in their k/d ratio, but maybe also because
once you pushed say 5- 6 times and systematically get destroyed without any progression, as a human you would normaly search another approach, and as there is none proposed in the maps, ppl finally ends to give up on the objective and try to get some fun by playing “safe” TDM (they may even by doing this trying to improve their skill , to be able later to get to the objective )

I felt that in this thread the comon opinion was it was a player related issue, an educational issue, and absolutely NOT, not even maybe, a consequence of game design (especially map design imo).
I think it is a problem because things wont change if the acutal developpers doesnt feels they have their bit of responsibility in this.

now if you want to keep playing dumb and explain me that you need to push in order to win, go ahead… but i know that. I acutally quite often play the “lemmings” as we used to say on TS in order to make the maps progress… again, you should note, that even we, “veteran” are feelings that need to play the “lemming” wich, is never fun… and this is an issue, period.

(Violator) #44

So sick of this :confused:

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I get that players are new, why don’t they play on the low level servers?

(fubar) #45

[QUOTE=Violator;529224]So sick of this :confused:

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I get that players are new, why don’t they play on the low level servers?[/QUOTE]

Looks like a pretty even game to me, what exactly are you so upset about? Losing? Or simply trying to gain some attention with your l33t 31 kills?

(Szakalot) #46

take a closer look, his whole team is in negative k/d.

Game itself looked close, as it got to the last phase (cant be said about most obj games), with a relatively average time for 2nd obj. But Im sure he didnt like to carry his whole team. Then again, its hard to balance around a player who can carry the whole team (without an equally skilled opponent on the other side)

Or simply trying to gain some attention with your l33t 31 kills?

YOU would think that, wouldnt you? : )

(Violator) #47

Missing entire point. Insanity was trying but the rest didn’t have a clue what was going on. Here’s another one -

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(Szakalot) #48

[QUOTE=Violator;529230]Missing entire point. Insanity was trying but the rest didn’t have a clue what was going on. Here’s another one -

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[/QUOTE]

looks like a lot of ragequits

(Violator) #49

Nothing against any of these players, in that last game they were trying but didn’t really know what to do and were getting mown down around the EV destination point. Need to do something to help new players.

(fubar) #50

[QUOTE=Szakalot;529228]take a closer look, his whole team is in negative k/d.

Game itself looked close, as it got to the last phase (cant be said about most obj games), with a relatively average time for 2nd obj. But Im sure he didnt like to carry his whole team. Then again, its hard to balance around a player who can carry the whole team (without an equally skilled opponent on the other side)

YOU would think that, wouldnt you? : )[/QUOTE]

Negative KD is not unheard of, especially on the ATTACKING side. They got objectives done, in decent time, considering the map lasts 15 minutes. 6 minute holds on the last objective (which is horridly designed) is very common, happens amongst evenly matched teams in comp games just as much, longer even.

15 kills on average vs 18.6 kills on average is definitely not something I’d classify as unbalanced.

(Szakalot) #51

precisely; in comp it would not be unheard of to have bad k/d. In pubs that largely play out as TDM, whole team having negative k/d is not a good sign.

(sunshinefats) #52

I read someone else say this somewhere and I totally agree…part of the problem with people not pushing lies in displaying the K/D at the end of the match on pubs. People will generally be embarrassed if they finish the game with a negative K/D. Some people feel bad even if their team wins because of it. As a result(as others have mentioned), they end up trying to play very conservative to preserve their K/D to avoid that feeling of defeat and humiliation at the end of the match. I think if it just wasn’t displayed publicly like that at the end of the match, many people would play more aggressively and push harder than they do now.

The other aspect, for me, is supportive teammates. If I’m on a team where the medics and field ops pass me by a few times without helping I tend to get a lot more conservative in my play. On the other hand, if I’m on a team where the field ops and medics have good situational awareness and are constantly helping everyone, I tend to get more aggressive because I know I have backup. But that, I guess, goes back to people being new or not really knowing how to play. Still, if there were more convenient ammo stations or some other way to get health when I needed it(because waiting to regen can sometimes cause you run and hide as well) then that might also help give people incentive to push a bit harder.

(Glottis-3D) #53

getting negative K/D is a rare thing.
the nature of a ratio is that it is always nonnegative, if both number are nonnegative.

(Zenity) #54

[QUOTE=Violator;529224]So sick of this :confused:

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I get that players are new, why don’t they play on the low level servers?[/QUOTE]

Did it occur to you that the one out of place here is you, not the newbies? :stuck_out_tongue:

Newbies rightfully use quick play most of the time, and there isn’t always an active low level server available. We all know that the inability for stronger players to evade newbie pubs is a problem right now, caused by the closed beta and lack of matchmaking / scrimming features. It is us who have to adapt to this and be a bit more considerate, not the newbies.

The best thing to do IMO is to chill and not get too worked up when a match simply can’t be won due to uneven teams. At least you probably saved your team from being spawn stomped, so you helped a bunch of newbies to not have an awful time. That’s something.

(Humbugsen) #55

[QUOTE=sunshinefats;529248]I read someone else say this somewhere and I totally agree…part of the problem with people not pushing lies in displaying the K/D at the end of the match on pubs. People will generally be embarrassed if they finish the game with a negative K/D. Some people feel bad even if their team wins because of it. As a result(as others have mentioned), they end up trying to play very conservative to preserve their K/D to avoid that feeling of defeat and humiliation at the end of the match. I think if it just wasn’t displayed publicly like that at the end of the match, many people would play more aggressively and push harder than they do now.
[/QUOTE]

I think it would be good if you don’t get a death when you get revived.
That way there are more kills than deaths and everyone has a better k/d.
Just for those who care about k/d :slight_smile:

(-PogS-) #56

If you play for K/D ratio then this game is simply not made for you. There are plenty other games made for that. I am confident that most players look more at the XP won after a game than the K/D. In fact they should remove that stats in the end game screen. That is not relevant for this game. It is only an argument for players to argue against others. To me it is more disturbing than useful. That stat is only relevant for Fragger or other attack mercs but as attack mercs mainly gain xp through kills, that is not even needed.

Regarding push, it is risky to do it alone and imo experienced players should do ask for it and bring their teammates with them. That is their role to lead the team. Using voiced commands can help or voice chat.

(Runeforce) #57

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;529270]getting negative K/D is a rare thing.
the nature of a ratio is that it is always nonnegative, if both number are nonnegative.[/QUOTE]

No and yes. You take your kills and subtract your deaths. If that number is below 0 ( < kdr 1.0) it’s said to be negative.

(shibbyuk) #58

Just to be a pedant… That would be a kill difference :slight_smile:

(Glottis-3D) #59

exactly.
i noticed, that more ppl do not get the difference…

is it 21st century?
is it gaming community in its entirety?
or is it just we trolling each other on this awesome forums?

(Szakalot) #60

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;529325]
or is it just we trolling each other on this awesome forums?[/QUOTE]

trolling each others? Not to be a pedant, but trolls don’t exist.

trololololol!