Why Brink for PC failed-

[_fe_ss]

This is a rough analysis of why this game failed so quickly and violently in terms of attrition. Never have I seen a game with such a horrible attrition rate as Brink, from the initial launch and purchases to what it is today (non-existent player base).

As a precursor, I have played Brink since the minute it came out, and played in every competitive tournament that it has ever had (brinktv,IGL,Steele series) so I am more than aware of the failings of this game.

This is again based off of my observations for the PC, not any console renditions.

1. Performance - This is the most obvious of all. This game came out with far too many performance problems to sustain a strong population. I purchased a new gaming rig roughly 2 weeks before the game came out i5 / gforce 560 etc and in messy team fights my FPS stays around 100. This is with a brand new rig. For someone who’s rig is say a year old, fps will rarely break 50 (from first hand experience with a lot of friends who have tried). This kind of FPS makes being competitive in Brink extremely difficult, especially because this is such a movement / speed base game.

The cost / benefit of upgrading to a new computer which can run Brink well isn’t worth it to most as the following laundry list of problems would deter any individual from wanting to do so.

2. Little to no skill cap - This is most likely the biggest flaw in the game. Speaking in terms of FPS games, one of the most important factors to a high attrition rate is having a high skill cap in order to bring people back and make people want to continue playing to improve their skills. This game has none of that. The guns are spread-based, meaning there’s no recoil to learn. The crosshair / hitboxes make attempting to aim for headshots in a real time environment nearly impossible. With having nothing to master (headshots / recoil control) a veteran FPS player will only need to learn the maps.

To be good at a game with no skill cap, you only have to be able to aim, its as simple as that. This is something inherent in the player, as either you can aim or you can’t aim. There will be no difference in my performance in a brink match if I played 100 hours this week or if I played 20 minutes as there is nothing that I need to master, which is a huge hole in the structure of the game.

See a game like CS, where both headshots + recoil control + spray are things that take someone many hours to master.

3. Maps - The maps are another huge blockade to people playing this game from both a competitive standpoint and a casual standpoint. Offense on every map except Aquarium is an awful experience, with horrible objectives that can never be accomplished due to the structure of the maps. This game has far too many explosives and far too little entry points to accomplish objectives. This makes the offense experience more of a graveyard zerg that any true organized structure and its just really unfun to play.

Continuing on the maps, the maps aren’t designed in a way to promote complex strategies. Again take a game like 1.6, where you can spend hours developing complex strategies and fakes to accomplish objectives and pushes. In brink, the simplistic 2 entry point setups and super choke points make anything other than simple splits unnecessary.

This is connected to the skill cap argument, as I as a player have no reason to go into a server and design complex strategies to push on offense or watch demos of top players to learn strategies as there isn’t any.

All of these are pretty apparent to any competitive FPS player and to ignore these is the reason why the game is where it is at now, not even showing up in the steam top 100 with less than 250 players playing at any given time.

There are currently 0 North American teams who scrimmage or play this game. Why do I know this? because I haven’t been able to find a scrimmage in over a month in this game.

The answer to fixing this game isn’t by adding female skins and more explosives, but to fix the above items. The problem is, the above items are what Brink is, so needless to say Brink will never be able to recover.

[SinDonor]

Yeah, I get the gist that this game let down the uber FPS PC crowd. Bummer. If I was a competitive PC FPSer, I guess I’d be sticking with CS or TF2 or whatever is popular.

[peteXnasty]

This list applies to all versions, with console having added an opaque and unintuitive matchmaking and party system that cripples any group looking to play AS a group against…anyone but themselves.

What I dont get is why the bullets still spread even after ADS. That’s when spread should drop to 0.1 and then recoil takes over, yet it doesn’t.

[peteXnasty]

Also countdown to the casual crowd coming in and telling you how wrong you are because there ARE tactics, like this one time zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[alberto]

solution is one

SDK

Otherways we have to accept what bethesda decides.

[jazevec]

[QUOTE=alberto;356343]solution is one

SDK

Otherways we have to accept what bethesda decides.[/QUOTE]

I think Brink will get SDK as soon as Battlefield 3 does.

[_fe_ss]

[QUOTE=alberto;356343]solution is one

SDK

Otherways we have to accept what bethesda decides.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Don’t think this will happen anytime soon.

All we have seen from bethesda is with the obvious death of their game, their big solution is to release a DLC with female skins and new weapons to make the final few dollars they can before abandoning it.

[sereNADE]

ss;356337’]This is a rough analysis of why this game failed so quickly and violently in terms of attrition. Never have I seen a game with such a horrible attrition rate as Brink, from the initial launch and purchases to what it is today (non-existent player base).

As a precursor, I have played Brink since the minute it came out, and played in every competitive tournament that it has ever had (brinktv,IGL,Steele series) so I am more than aware of the failings of this game.

This is again based off of my observations for the PC, not any console renditions.

1. Performance - This is the most obvious of all. This game came out with far too many performance problems to sustain a strong population. I purchased a new gaming rig roughly 2 weeks before the game came out i5 / gforce 560 etc and in messy team fights my FPS stays around 100. This is with a brand new rig. For someone who’s rig is say a year old, fps will rarely break 50 (from first hand experience with a lot of friends who have tried). This kind of FPS makes being competitive in Brink extremely difficult, especially because this is such a movement / speed base game.

The cost / benefit of upgrading to a new computer which can run Brink well isn’t worth it to most as the following laundry list of problems would deter any individual from wanting to do so.

2. Little to no skill cap - This is most likely the biggest flaw in the game. Speaking in terms of FPS games, one of the most important factors to a high attrition rate is having a high skill cap in order to bring people back and make people want to continue playing to improve their skills. This game has none of that. The guns are spread-based, meaning there’s no recoil to learn. The crosshair / hitboxes make attempting to aim for headshots in a real time environment nearly impossible. With having nothing to master (headshots / recoil control) a veteran FPS player will only need to learn the maps.

To be good at a game with no skill cap, you only have to be able to aim, its as simple as that. This is something inherent in the player, as either you can aim or you can’t aim. There will be no difference in my performance in a brink match if I played 100 hours this week or if I played 20 minutes as there is nothing that I need to master, which is a huge hole in the structure of the game.

See a game like CS, where both headshots + recoil control + spray are things that take someone many hours to master.

3. Maps - The maps are another huge blockade to people playing this game from both a competitive standpoint and a casual standpoint. Offense on every map except Aquarium is an awful experience, with horrible objectives that can never be accomplished due to the structure of the maps. This game has far too many explosives and far too little entry points to accomplish objectives. This makes the offense experience more of a graveyard zerg that any true organized structure and its just really unfun to play.

Continuing on the maps, the maps aren’t designed in a way to promote complex strategies. Again take a game like 1.6, where you can spend hours developing complex strategies and fakes to accomplish objectives and pushes. In brink, the simplistic 2 entry point setups and super choke points make anything other than simple splits unnecessary.

This is connected to the skill cap argument, as I as a player have no reason to go into a server and design complex strategies to push on offense or watch demos of top players to learn strategies as there isn’t any.

All of these are pretty apparent to any competitive FPS player and to ignore these is the reason why the game is where it is at now, not even showing up in the steam top 100 with less than 250 players playing at any given time.

There are currently 0 North American teams who scrimmage or play this game. Why do I know this? because I haven’t been able to find a scrimmage in over a month in this game.

The answer to fixing this game isn’t by adding female skins and more explosives, but to fix the above items. The problem is, the above items are what Brink is, so needless to say Brink will never be able to recover.

Thanks, valid points. Applies to pub and is part of the reason my clan does not support or hardly play the game after months of gearing up for our “great migration”.

[Stormchild]

Valid points, especially for comp I suppose. I have been a Wolf:ET and ETQW heavy player, always in pub (briefly in a clan, but it’s too many constraints just like guilds in mmo’s).
And I still get fun in Brink in pub.

I agree less spread would be nice, and this is probably something that can be corrected. As for the maps, the only hope is the upcoming ones and the SDK.
I still think some maps are nice and when the op says there are too many explosives, I wonder : no rocket launcher, and grenades are nowhere as potent damage-wise as in ETQW. I understand the need of more intricate and alternate routes, but not too much otherwise it’s the defense that will be impossible to do. Here the turrets are not that great, and neither are the mines, compared to ETQW.

What I miss is maybe more service-routes or hvac-ducts. But bear in mind this was designed for 8 vs 8 and I think it’s a small amount compared to 32 vs 32 of ETQW, therefore everything had to be adapted.

I think also there is a design flaw with the abilities in general in this game. Not gamebreaking, but hampers much potential. But like I said, if I go beyond the feeling of frustration and wasted potential, there is still way enough to come in for my money, especially if I compare to some other games.

[Smoochy]

ss;356337’]This is a rough analysis of why this game failed so quickly and violently in terms of attrition. Never have I seen a game with such a horrible attrition rate as Brink, from the initial launch and purchases to what it is today (non-existent player base).

As a precursor, I have played Brink since the minute it came out, and played in every competitive tournament that it has ever had (brinktv,IGL,Steele series) so I am more than aware of the failings of this game.

This is again based off of my observations for the PC, not any console renditions.

1. Performance - This is the most obvious of all. This game came out with far too many performance problems to sustain a strong population. I purchased a new gaming rig roughly 2 weeks before the game came out i5 / gforce 560 etc and in messy team fights my FPS stays around 100. This is with a brand new rig. For someone who’s rig is say a year old, fps will rarely break 50 (from first hand experience with a lot of friends who have tried). This kind of FPS makes being competitive in Brink extremely difficult, especially because this is such a movement / speed base game.

The cost / benefit of upgrading to a new computer which can run Brink well isn’t worth it to most as the following laundry list of problems would deter any individual from wanting to do so.

2. Little to no skill cap - This is most likely the biggest flaw in the game. Speaking in terms of FPS games, one of the most important factors to a high attrition rate is having a high skill cap in order to bring people back and make people want to continue playing to improve their skills. This game has none of that. The guns are spread-based, meaning there’s no recoil to learn. The crosshair / hitboxes make attempting to aim for headshots in a real time environment nearly impossible. With having nothing to master (headshots / recoil control) a veteran FPS player will only need to learn the maps.

To be good at a game with no skill cap, you only have to be able to aim, its as simple as that. This is something inherent in the player, as either you can aim or you can’t aim. There will be no difference in my performance in a brink match if I played 100 hours this week or if I played 20 minutes as there is nothing that I need to master, which is a huge hole in the structure of the game.

See a game like CS, where both headshots + recoil control + spray are things that take someone many hours to master.

3. Maps - The maps are another huge blockade to people playing this game from both a competitive standpoint and a casual standpoint. Offense on every map except Aquarium is an awful experience, with horrible objectives that can never be accomplished due to the structure of the maps. This game has far too many explosives and far too little entry points to accomplish objectives. This makes the offense experience more of a graveyard zerg that any true organized structure and its just really unfun to play.

Continuing on the maps, the maps aren’t designed in a way to promote complex strategies. Again take a game like 1.6, where you can spend hours developing complex strategies and fakes to accomplish objectives and pushes. In brink, the simplistic 2 entry point setups and super choke points make anything other than simple splits unnecessary.

This is connected to the skill cap argument, as I as a player have no reason to go into a server and design complex strategies to push on offense or watch demos of top players to learn strategies as there isn’t any.

All of these are pretty apparent to any competitive FPS player and to ignore these is the reason why the game is where it is at now, not even showing up in the steam top 100 with less than 250 players playing at any given time.

There are currently 0 North American teams who scrimmage or play this game. Why do I know this? because I haven’t been able to find a scrimmage in over a month in this game.

The answer to fixing this game isn’t by adding female skins and more explosives, but to fix the above items. The problem is, the above items are what Brink is, so needless to say Brink will never be able to recover.

my rig but with a 6 year old 8800gtx ran the game fine. people with older cards need to realise they cant play with all the eye candy.

[_fe_ss]

[QUOTE=Stormchild;356362]Valid points, especially for comp I suppose. I have been a Wolf:ET and ETQW heavy player, always in pub (briefly in a clan, but it’s too many constraints just like guilds in mmo’s).
And I still get fun in Brink in pub.

I agree less spread would be nice, and this is probably something that can be corrected. As for the maps, the only hope is the upcoming ones and the SDK.
I still think some maps are nice and when the op says there are too many explosives, I wonder : no rocket launcher, and grenades are nowhere as potent damage-wise as in ETQW. I understand the need of more intricate and alternate routes, but not too much otherwise it’s the defense that will be impossible to do. Here the turrets are not that great, and neither are the mines, compared to ETQW.

What I miss is maybe more service-routes or hvac-ducts.

I think also there is a design flaw with the abilities in general in this game. Not gamebreaking, but hampers much potential. But like I said, if I go beyond the feeling of frustration and wasted potential, there is still way enough to come in for my money, especially if I compare to some other games.[/QUOTE]

Agreed that you don’t want too many routes. The difference is the routes in Brink are all enclosed 6 foot doorways that are stupidly easy to defend with a mine and a well placed Molotov / nade, see terminal / reactor / security tower / aquarium.

Its beyond stupid. There’s a reason that in the finals of IGL / BrinkTV tournament that both teams fullheld at the first objective for 3-4 maps at a time. Far too easy to defend.

[FROST1]

Funny thing is, SD tried to eliminate spawn camping by implementing the spawn turrets. But especially if your Team, mostly the offense, get stuck in a choke point the only solution is to cut off your opponents reinforcements by nailing them down in their spawn or spawn area, while the rest of your team completes the objs.

Engies are devinitely the best for this job. And I or like minded players saved our teams a$$ a couple times with this technique. And again its not like in a k/d TDM where it serves just for the casual logging of kills. Many times its just the only solution to loosen up a choke point situation.

[Seiniyta]

To be honest, I think the reason Brink ‘failed’ (to me it’s still an incredible fun game :)) is because SD just didn’t had employees to develop a game for three platforms at once. Which might explain why they are recruiting more!

[Verticae]

What I miss is maybe more service-routes or hvac-ducts. But bear in mind this was designed for 8 vs 8 and I think it’s a small amount compared to 32 vs 32 of ETQW, therefore everything had to be adapted.

ETQW was 12v12; best servers I knew ran it 8v8 pub. Comp team sizes are the same for both.

[Stormchild]

my bad then, memory mix with BFBC2 I suppose. Did I write 32 vs 32 ? ouch

[neks]

oh so we get one thread like that every day now?

[DeeTwo]

oh so we get one thread like that every day now?

Well, it did piss off a lot of people. I mean you could have a board like #brink on quakenet. Which has had about 2 lines a day for the last month plus - but that wouldn’t be very interesting. At least with these threads there’s discussion

Brink was meant to be the answer to every vaguely intelligent PC FPSers prayers. The only problem was it took what it thought was the best aspects of other games, did them half heartedly, didn’t test anything and then topped it off by performing terribly on an entire subset of cards (with or without eye candy). As another thread alludes to, Brink should have at least lasted till September (for the BF3 beta) - but it couldn’t even do that. The entire thing just “felt” repetitive to the extent that people just didn’t care any more, there was just no point or feeling of a point. There was a fairly decent review (possibly from RPS?) that also talked about the lack of a ‘hero’ element - which is true - there’s just nothing to get really excited about.

Which is sad.

Meh, maybe I just hoped for too much. Either way Im so disheartened I took up SC2 and am keeping my aim up by firing up the walkway training map for tf2 from time to time and shooting things out the sky which is seemingly somehow less dull than Brink.

But hay, least a fair majority of the console players seem happy.

[tokamak]

I was expecting another inane whine post, but yeah those are the three biggest issues for the PC.

[zenstar]

ss;356337’]Never have I seen a game with such a horrible attrition rate as Brink, from the initial launch and purchases to what it is today (non-existent player base).

There have been plenty of games with higher attrition rates.

I disagree with #2 too. The top players seem to stay on top in spite of everyone “hitting the low skill ceiling”. If the skill ceiling were really that low then every game would be a 50/50 shot and you wouldn’t get 1 team dominating the other team multiple games in a row because it would only take 20 minutes to be able to perform at maximum. What you’re really saying in #2 is “I don’t like how the guns work”. That’s fine. You’re allowed to feel that way, but don’t try dress it up in a slinky red dress and call it your date.

And #3 is heavily opinion oriented with a similar counterargument to #2. A better team tends to do better whether they are attacking or defending. The skill cap is not to blame. If you don’t like the maps for their design then say so.

And you seem awfully hung up on CS, which is ironic considering the massive amount of bugs that CS started with. /shrug.

[neks]

[QUOTE=DeeTwo;356422]Well, it did piss off a lot of people. I mean you could have a board like #brink on quakenet. Which has had about 2 lines a day for the last month plus - but that wouldn’t be very interesting. At least with these threads there’s discussion

Brink was meant to be the answer to every vaguely intelligent PC FPSers prayers. The only problem was it took what it thought was the best aspects of other games, did them half heartedly, didn’t test anything and then topped it off by performing terribly on an entire subset of cards (with or without eye candy). As another thread alludes to, Brink should have at least lasted till September (for the BF3 beta) - but it couldn’t even do that. The entire thing just “felt” repetitive to the extent that people just didn’t care any more, there was just no point or feeling of a point. There was a fairly decent review (possibly from RPS?) that also talked about the lack of a ‘hero’ element - which is true - there’s just nothing to get really excited about.

Which is sad.

Meh, maybe I just hoped for too much. Either way Im so disheartened I took up SC2 and am keeping my aim up by firing up the walkway training map for tf2 from time to time and shooting things out the sky which is seemingly somehow less dull than Brink.

But hay, least a fair majority of the console players seem happy. :/[/QUOTE]

While I do agree that Brink could be/have been better, had the publisher made different choices, you’ll admit that [taunting title] + [nobody’s analysis] + [said analysis bring nothing new] really equals nothing new