Who the fuck made these phantom changes?

[loonyTop]

[quote=“Jojack;51549”][quote=“jetJester;51542”][quote=“Kay-Dubz;51291”][quote=“jetJester;50599”]My 2 cents:
I was watching outc1der (level 59 player that plays comp and never uses phantom for those that wonders) playing since my DB doesen’t work, someone in chat asked:
“What do you think about Phantom nerf”
“He wasn’t strong before now he’s completely useless”
[/quote]

Oh yeah of course. 1 guys opinion outweighs the majority of the community, all because he has a high level.

There totally were not any high level players who complained of phantom being cheap or having a low skill floor. [/quote]

Someone with a lot deeper knowledge of the game in general of course outweight opinion of people that has close to no one game knowledge

About him having a low level skill floor to be effective i agree but that is in no way even close to a decent solution[/quote]

So one guy, who’s perspective is that of the top 1% talent pool of the game, should have more of a voice than the majority of the player base. Sounds like a smart business model.

Granted, I think they totally flubbed up the changes to Phantom, and so far the poll is reflecting that. So maybe the player base isn’t as stupid as you think they are.[/quote]

Nah man, I agree and considering that the majority of people think the game was less fun with Phantom they have clearly done the right thing. In fact, if you combined the people who thought it was just as fun and more fun you still got lower than the people saying it’s less fun. They did the right thing with Phantom.

[aRagRappy]

While its great they made it so phantom cant keep doing stupid shit that would get you killed using anyone else, I feel like they’re still ignoring the core issues he has to his current design. Being that he’s a recon that’s more like a pointless assault class, but being only good at picking off lone enemies instead of busting through their defenses and he still doesnt have any recon utility for his team. Seems like they’re just trying to make him a tanky berserker who’s slightly harder to see than a stealth class that flanks the enemy and either gives you some kind of info other than you just see them or sabotaging their defense somehow.

[Suave]

There were MANY nerfs proposed for Phantom, but most people said themselves: “1 or 2 of these proposed nerfs applied, would fix him”

But damn, they went All-in this patch

[GregHouseMD]

So, the response to the changes is to whine about whiners having it their way? Makes sense.

Nader got the same treatment before, too. Following responses that were a lot less loud than what Phantom got, she was nerfed pretty hard. Then she got a slight buff, and now sits in a pretty good place. I imagine the same thing will happen to Phantom.

[ghostBase]

[quote=“GregHouseMD;52011”]So, the response to the changes is to whine about whiners having it their way? Makes sense.

Nader got the same treatment before, too. Following responses that were a lot less loud than what Phantom got, she was nerfed pretty hard. Then she got a slight buff, and now sits in a pretty good place. I imagine the same thing will happen to Phantom.[/quote]

Phantom was also indirectly nerfed through nerfs of the Kek-10, the Crotzni, the Chopper Perk and this retarded sensitivity change of melee weapons. All of these should be reverted

[GregHouseMD]

[quote=“ghostBase;52113”][quote=“GregHouseMD;52011”]So, the response to the changes is to whine about whiners having it their way? Makes sense.

Nader got the same treatment before, too. Following responses that were a lot less loud than what Phantom got, she was nerfed pretty hard. Then she got a slight buff, and now sits in a pretty good place. I imagine the same thing will happen to Phantom.[/quote]

Phantom was also indirectly nerfed through nerfs of the Kek-10, the Crotzni, the Chopper Perk and this retarded sensitivity change of melee weapons. All of these should be reverted[/quote]

And? The KEK needed a nerf - probably more of a nerf than the Crotzni, but that’s sort of unrelated. Chopper I’m not sure about, and I also don’t know how much that does for Phantom ( i.e. what his damage would be post-nerf ). That being said, it makes sense, as augments should never be so that they’re an absolute requirement just to play the merc.

I’m not sure about the sensitivity changes. I mainly use 3+LMB to gib people, and I could barely tell it was there. Reducing the window for the katana to deal damage ( and possibly its reach ) might’ve been better, but we’ll see.

[watsyurdeal]

Honestly the KEK and Crotz nerf had it coming, they are two of the best guns in the game and are only separated by tactics. Spray and Pray (KEK)? Or tapfire(Crotzni)?

[ghostBase]

I understand that the Crotzni and Kek were too strong, however nerfing two of the three SMGs that phantom uses while leaving the third (which is underpowered) alone feels like an attempt to indirectly nerf the merc, completely disregarding the guns’ performance in the hands of other mercs.

[humaneCushion]

Introducing melee turn rate capping is a silly thing to do in a game like Dirty Bomb.

Changes made to Phantom himself seem to take the wrong direction.

Sensor should still de-cloak him, it’s silly to buff refractive armor to act as primarily armor.
It’s the very concept of it being both a cloak and an armor that’s what’s wrong with him.

In the same vein, making him more visible also misses the point, as it’s a nerf to the invisibility aspect(which is fine), and not the armor one(which is bad).

HP change is a knee-jerk reaction. Phantom with 120 HP is okay, Phantom with 120 and a massive shield is not. If the shield was removed, he’d be fine at 120.

[GregHouseMD]

I understand that the Crotzni and Kek were too strong, however nerfing two of the three SMGs that phantom uses while leaving the third (which is underpowered) alone feels like an attempt to indirectly nerf the merc, completely disregarding the guns’ performance in the hands of other mercs.

Completely disregarding other mercs is missing the point, though. Crotzni is the go-to weapon for Nader and Sawbonez, and KEK for Bushwhacker. Only the mercs that use SMGs as alternatives to shotguns are unaffected.

HP change is a knee-jerk reaction. Phantom with 120 HP is okay, Phantom with 120 and a massive shield is not. If the shield was removed, he’d be fine at 120.

Well, all other mercs with 120 HP were slower than Phantom, so it makes sense to reduce either his HP or his mobility. It’s completely unfair otherwise, doubly so when you’re a merc who favors getting up close. Getting into position should not be as easy as finding a target who’s close enough to where he can’t conceivably win, and charging.

[Ronan]

If people would stop complaining about Phantom, and if the people here decided to release Red Eye, put him on a Free Rotation along with Phantom when he was released, the nerfs to Phantom wouldn’t have even been needed.

They listened to the cries of the Reddit babies, proving that if people bitch enough, they can get whatever they want.

Red Eye is a direct counter to Phantom; so they could’ve just left him as he was, added Red Eye, and THEN tweaked him accordingly.

In Phantom’s trailer, he had no primary. He had a semi-automatic pistol and a katana. That should be his loadout, maybe give him a different handgun each time, but, make the katana a default. I have 3 damn Colbalt Phantom’s, each with the stiletto knife. The way they displayed him upon release, it seemed like in each thing he was going to receive the katana; it was a specialized weapon for him. He was good at getting in, and killing people. That was his job to the team. The nerfs to the cloak time were too much; if they were going to lower the damage it could absorb, fine, but don’t take his key mechanic and let him not use it for nearly half the game or during chokepoints since he’s basically, no… actually is squishy now. I cloaked in the middle of a dark area, 5 different times on a map, and 3 out in the open. As soon as I completely cloaked, guess what? Died. 10 seconds is ridiculous. If they were going to base it on anything, the Cloak could regen whilst he’s standing completely still, not to rip off TF2, but, it’s a good mechanic.

All Phantom is now, to describe him. You take the health of a squishy like Aura, add the stupid slow speed of Rhino, and throw a sheet over his head, and give him a stick that weighs 50lbs.

He is a squishy, slow merc with a sheet over his head thinking he’s stealthy, when in reality, ANYONE can see him now; AKA useless.

They decided to nerf melee in general instead of taking the time to look at Phantom’s katana. It was a half-assed way to do things.

He needed some nerfs, yes, but not these.

Take away the armor, call it a cloak instead of such, put his health back to 120, cloak duration and timer back, and put the speed back on him at least, make the lunge range for the right-click less if need be.

-Sincerely,

A closed-beta player who spent $9.99 on this guy and then bought a bronze loadout card for him since I wasted all my golds in an attempt to get a cobalt katana, kek10 loadout.

I’d like my money back if he’s not fixed.

[irishrOy]

[quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]
Still sucks tho for phantom players.[/quote]
Sure and all that, but as the players bought Phantom, they knew they were getting an unbalanced Merc that can’t really be countered and is extremely strong and so will most likely receive a hit with the nerf-hammer more sooner than later.
Ppl should have known they’re doing smth. risky and Phanny won’t stay in his OP-state for ever…

[WinterShade]

[quote=“irishroy;52367”][quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]
Still sucks tho for phantom players.[/quote]
Sure and all that, but as the players bought Phantom, they knew they were getting an unbalanced Merc that can’t really be countered and is extremely strong and so will most likely receive a hit with the nerf-hammer more sooner than later.
Ppl should have known they’re doing smth. risky and Phanny won’t stay in his OP-state for ever…[/quote]

But he’s practically unusable for any unique role anymore unlike prior to the nerf, it’s the fact that any attacker merc can do his job better now, they really over-nerfed him here.

[Jojack]

[quote=“WinterShade;52493”][quote=“irishroy;52367”][quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]
Still sucks tho for phantom players.[/quote]
Sure and all that, but as the players bought Phantom, they knew they were getting an unbalanced Merc that can’t really be countered and is extremely strong and so will most likely receive a hit with the nerf-hammer more sooner than later.
Ppl should have known they’re doing smth. risky and Phanny won’t stay in his OP-state for ever…[/quote]

But he’s practically unusable for any unique role anymore unlike prior to the nerf, it’s the fact that any attacker merc can do his job better now, they really over-nerfed him here.[/quote]

That’s just not true. You guys really need to stop over-exaggerating if you want to seriously get a good fix for him.

[WinterShade]

[quote=“Jojack;52504”][quote=“WinterShade;52493”][quote=“irishroy;52367”][quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]
Still sucks tho for phantom players.[/quote]
Sure and all that, but as the players bought Phantom, they knew they were getting an unbalanced Merc that can’t really be countered and is extremely strong and so will most likely receive a hit with the nerf-hammer more sooner than later.
Ppl should have known they’re doing smth. risky and Phanny won’t stay in his OP-state for ever…[/quote]

But he’s practically unusable for any unique role anymore unlike prior to the nerf, it’s the fact that any attacker merc can do his job better now, they really over-nerfed him here.[/quote]

That’s just not true. You guys really need to stop over-exaggerating if you want to seriously get a good fix for him.[/quote]

It’s not over-exaggeration, any attacker merc can pull his role off now in the fact Phantom can’t get up close and personal (turn limiter makes his Katana feel like a boulder) anymore with the RA nerf so he’s restricted to range attacking with an SMG and pistol and doing this at 110 health. Fragger has 150 health and an LMG or AR he can use plus grenades. Skyhammer has 120 health and also an AR plus an airstrike. Rhino has a minigun and 200 health, enough said there. Phantom is just no longer a viable option unless you get lucky and play with a batch of new players on the enemy team.

[JJMAJR]

The Phantom’s camo should not have invincibility, and should not restrict the class from completing objectives.

I’d say that the current metagame can support the Phantom idea I have, where he can defuse and arm objectives covertly, but be killed by explosives, traps, and have to deal with more varieties of medics, especially Sparks. In alpha we didn’t even have Sparks, Fragger, or Nader.

The stealth=invincibility gimmick needs to be out of the game entirely, or on a really slow class that cannot catch up to other enemies on foot, and shred enemies with melee attacks.

[WinterShade]

[quote=“JJMAJR;52518”]The Phantom’s camo should not have invincibility, and should not restrict the class from completing objectives.

I’d say that the current metagame can support the Phantom idea I have, where he can defuse and arm objectives covertly, but be killed by explosives, traps, and have to deal with more varieties of medics, especially Sparks. In alpha we didn’t even have Sparks, Fragger, or Nader.

The stealth=invincibility gimmick needs to be out of the game entirely, or on a really slow class that cannot catch up to other enemies on foot, and shred enemies with melee attacks.[/quote]

His RA isn’t that great of a shield, pre-patch it could take a full on blast from a proxy mine, but he’d live. post-patch the proxy mine will most likely still kill him because damage now goes past his RA if it ‘eats’ it all up and then some in 1 hit, it functions perfectly now in terms of defense, balance and all, but it’s the fact it’s so visible to see now is what makes it an issue, before yes it was easy to see but still difficult at times, now you can see a Phantom anywhere, cloaked or otherwise.

[Azure]

[quote=“Jojack;52504”][quote=“WinterShade;52493”][quote=“irishroy;52367”][quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]
Still sucks tho for phantom players.[/quote]
Sure and all that, but as the players bought Phantom, they knew they were getting an unbalanced Merc that can’t really be countered and is extremely strong and so will most likely receive a hit with the nerf-hammer more sooner than later.
Ppl should have known they’re doing smth. risky and Phanny won’t stay in his OP-state for ever…[/quote]

But he’s practically unusable for any unique role anymore unlike prior to the nerf, it’s the fact that any attacker merc can do his job better now, they really over-nerfed him here.[/quote]

That’s just not true. You guys really need to stop over-exaggerating if you want to seriously get a good fix for him.[/quote]

Hi katana nice turn speed you got there wanna see my friend shotgun? I do not even need to touch you to 1 shot you.

Why would you even bother to melee now in its current state when shotguns exist in this game.

[Hadouken]

Phantom was already a shitty character, and it’s hilarious to see relatively new players attempt to persuade people who have been playing this game for hours on end otherwise. He’s useless. He doesn’t contribute to the team in terms of kills(ay fragger with an SMG, cute),he can’t detect other mercs like other recons, he cannot resupply the team, he can’t repair the objective (or damage any in a meaningful way), nor can or will he ever be able to deny areas with his toolset.

So what exactly can he do? What is his niche; what does he excel at? crickets

And thus he will never be touched.

It’s borderline insane at this point to think
Any one would do the disservice of picking him for your team.

You’ll see him a couple times maybe, due to missions.

You’ll see him, in compilation videos, titled on YouTube “LOL WRECKING NOOBS WITH THE SHITTIEST MERC IN GAME” or something along those lines. Before long, you’ll see more players react to him being on their teams, rotting at the bottom of the scoreboards as dead weight.

I’m glad I was never interested in him, but I do genuinely feel bad for any players who would have been interested in picking him up.

[loonyTop]

[quote=“Hadouken;53115”]Phantom was already a shitty character, and it’s hilarious to see relatively new players attempt to persuade people who have been playing this game for hours on end otherwise. He’s useless. He doesn’t contribute to the team in terms of kills(ay fragger with an SMG, cute),he can’t detect other mercs like other recons, he cannot resupply the team, he can’t repair the objective (or damage any in a meaningful way), nor can or will he ever be able to deny areas with his toolset.

So what exactly can he do? What is his niche; what does he excel at? crickets

And thus he will never be touched.

It’s borderline insane at this point to think
Any one would do the disservice of picking him for your team.

You’ll see him a couple times maybe, due to missions.

You’ll see him, in compilation videos, titled on YouTube “LOL WRECKING NOOBS WITH THE SHITTIEST MERC IN GAME” or something along those lines. Before long, you’ll see more players react to him being on their teams, rotting at the bottom of the scoreboards as dead weight.

I’m glad I was never interested in him, but I do genuinely feel bad for any players who would have been interested in picking him up.[/quote]

And that’s the issue most of us have. Phantom players (at least before the patch) only give a shit about their K/D ratio. They only give a shit if THEY are enjoying the game, not whether those who try to work as a team towards the objective are. This patch has been a fucking god-send to the rest of us because now you get maybe one Phantom per team instead of four and we can actually enjoy the game again instead of dying by some cheap ass lowly faggatard stabbing you in the back with no skill. Personally, I don’t give a shit about those who picked him up or were going to because they knew what they were doing and it definitely wasn’t anything to do with team play.

Oh and to all those Phantom lovers who are going to flag me for this, I have only this to say: http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/3788030+_a1f7e43c8e971281af0a390a95a53060.gif