Who the fuck made these phantom changes?

(ghostBase) #1

Turning down his maximum HP, making his cloak worse, and keeping up his shield when spotted by a heartbeat sensor shifts him even more in to the role of a fighter who relies on his armor, and even farther away from a stealthy playstyle.

Whoever came up with these changes literally did the exact opposite of what s/he was supposed to do.

Okay hold up
I’ll tell you why exactly the changes are wrong and what shouldve been done instead.

120 -> 110 HP:
Should have been 100, and a slight boost to Sprint Speed to compensate.

Q Skill Cooldown 6 -> 10 seconds:
That one’s tricky. I believe you should be able to recloak after 6 seconds of cooldown, but it should require 10 seconds to fully recharge.

Changes to Q’s Damage Absorption:
Phantom should not have an overshield to his HP.
He’s designed around a sapper playstyle, assisting the team by disabling engineers and medics
I’ll tell you once again because apparently the balancing department didn’t understand it the first few hundreds of thousand times this has been said:
PHANTOM IS NOT A TANK.

Cloak doesn’t break when detected by a heartbeat-sensor:
Not only is this straight-up buff missing ANY justification, it also serves to push phantom even more outside of a stealth role and even more into a fighter role. being able to keep his armor even when he’s visible is not the right way to go.

changes to de/cloaking noises:
Redundant. Phantom doesn’t have to uncloak before attacking, and when he recloaks you’re already dead.

You should have changed the ringing noise his active cloak emits: make it louder, but make it non-directional, so you can sense his presence, but not his exact location just by soundwhoring.

(ostmustis) #2

I guess it was reddit, the balance team of dirty bomb.

(moonlitAbility) #3

hahaha… yep, its stupid. they literally realized my worst fear in balancing him. because they balanced him around 1 single loadout (katana + chopper). The one loadout everyone had a problem with. Instead of balancing that 1 OP loadout by replacing chopper, or making the katanas hit box / speed a little toned down, they balance the whole class around 1 hit kills by lowering his shields/hp/etc.

So instead of toning down katana and encouraging different play types (tanky or gun based phantoms), they make the other 8 loadouts COMPLETE garbage, with the katana/chopper being the only way to play it. people will still be raped all match by good phantoms. only difference now is you actually have to be good

edit: lol i just continued reading the patch notes and noticed they did tone down the melee hit box and chopper augments

(titaniumCrouton) #4

Try this community in this forums or do you not read around? The balance team has fallen into the trap of listening to the mass of community whiners for balance suggestions xP.

(jetJester) #5

Try this community in this forums or do you not read around? The balance team has fallen into the trap of listening to the mass of community whiners for balance suggestions xP. [/quote]

I fail to see what direction this game is going, they reduce aimpunch yet they overnerf a class that is good against bad players, then proceed to nerf accuracy on operative weapons even tough class like fragger use rifleman weapon, wich remain untouched then again i heard now competitive matchmaking is in the credit missions; what is their goal? Good players? Casuals? You can’t have both of them, there need to be a direction or the game will become a mess :expressionless:

(watsyurdeal) #6

Try this community in this forums or do you not read around? The balance team has fallen into the trap of listening to the mass of community whiners for balance suggestions xP. [/quote]

I fail to see what direction this game is going, they reduce aimpunch yet they overnerf a class that is good against bad players, then proceed to nerf accuracy on operative weapons even tough class like fragger use rifleman weapon, wich remain untouched then again i heard now competitive matchmaking is in the credit missions; what is their goal? Good players? Casuals? You can’t have both of them, there need to be a direction or the game will become a mess :expressionless: [/quote]

True but this is the problem with free to play games, they need to be relatively easy to pick up and play otherwise people won’t stay and be inclined to spend cash on the game.

But at the same time, a game that’s free versus one that is 25 bucks, is a lot more appealing and easier to get a player base for.

It’s a tough scenario, I think Splash should’ve just kept the game in beta a while longer then release it as a full title. TF2 for example was really sweet till it went free to play.

(Anaconda) #7

The majority of Dirty Bomb players who prefer a style of play where they can either snipe or fight over long distances complained that Phantom negated their playstyle by being able to get up close and personal. Seeing that the majority was upset, because the majority doesn’t play close quarter combat, Splash Damage acted to completely destroy the class. I think they should’ve just deleted him from the game roster and wrote, “Phantom disappeared into the night”, because as of right now, he is a completely broken class and is, by design, the weakest out of all classes. Phantom doesn’t have a single strength now, all his abilities have been negated to please the majority. They should’ve just thrown him out instead of leaving him in as a “beginner’s trap”, IE, a class that looks “cool” which newbies will buy, only to start playing something else once they see themselves being fragged by everyone else.

They could’ve made subtle changes to fix his OP problems, but they drove him into the ground to please the player base. Since, apparently, CQB is not encouraged in this game anymore, I wish they’d give Phantom players an option to trade the class in for another, like Vasilli or whatever class they want to promote for long range combat.

(loonyTop) #8

I can’t tell you how hilarious all this is.

(Amerika) #9

Phantom was capable of getting pretty cheap melee kills which didn’t fit the flow of the game very well. Now you can’t go rushing in as easily and get a kill (while also dying yourself). Now, if you don’t play right, you might actually die before getting the cheap kill.

Remember, Dirty Bomb is a gun game first. It is not Chivalry :slight_smile: Phantom is still great at melee when the occasion calls for it and still has access to great primary weapons which many people have, up until now, not even tried to use. So rushing people blindly is no longer going to be as effective as it was. It will still work, but you have a lot more of a chance to die now. And some of the abuse that a lot of people didn’t know about in gunfights with the absorb is also toned down a bit.

(Sucrose) #10

seems to me you guys are just mad your op merc that was able to get easy kills now requires a little bit more thinking to avoid getting killed, you cant just run around with the katana.

(watsyurdeal) #11

[quote=“Amerika;50550”]Phantom was capable of getting pretty cheap melee kills which didn’t fit the flow of the game very well. Now you can’t go rushing in as easily and get a kill (while also dying yourself). Now, if you don’t play right, you might actually die before getting the cheap kill.

Remember, Dirty Bomb is a gun game first. It is not Chivalry :slight_smile: Phantom is still great at melee when the occasion calls for it and still has access to great primary weapons which many people have, up until now, not even tried to use. So rushing people blindly is no longer going to be as effective as it was. It will still work, but you have a lot more of a chance to die now. And some of the abuse that a lot of people didn’t know about in gunfights with the absorb is also toned down a bit.[/quote]

The problem is tho he can’t actually get in melee range easily to be useful

This is my issue with Phantom, he doesn’t need damage reduction to get in close, he needs to be invisible, completely invisible, to get within range where the enemy is forced to fight him up close.

The current visibility means you can EASILY see him coming across the map, that doesn’t make any sense. If they want him to be a “spooky ghost”, then make it so relies on surprise, not armor to protect him.

(Amerika) #12

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;50556”][quote=“Amerika;50550”]Phantom was capable of getting pretty cheap melee kills which didn’t fit the flow of the game very well. Now you can’t go rushing in as easily and get a kill (while also dying yourself). Now, if you don’t play right, you might actually die before getting the cheap kill.

Remember, Dirty Bomb is a gun game first. It is not Chivalry :slight_smile: Phantom is still great at melee when the occasion calls for it and still has access to great primary weapons which many people have, up until now, not even tried to use. So rushing people blindly is no longer going to be as effective as it was. It will still work, but you have a lot more of a chance to die now. And some of the abuse that a lot of people didn’t know about in gunfights with the absorb is also toned down a bit.[/quote]

The problem is tho he can’t actually get in melee range easily to be useful

This is my issue with Phantom, he doesn’t need damage reduction to get in close, he needs to be invisible, completely invisible, to get within range where the enemy is forced to fight him up close.

The current visibility means you can EASILY see him coming across the map, that doesn’t make any sense. If they want him to be a “spooky ghost”, then make it so relies on surprise, not armor to protect him.[/quote]

He wasn’t a melee only character despite what many people play him as. He has guns, great ones. Running in and tanking damage was pretty off-putting for a lot of people and it didn’t fit in this game since this isn’t Chivalry. He’s still good in melee and can still flank easily. He just won’t be rushing at people who don’t have a ton of game sense yet and get cheap kills that can’t be avoided.

This is of course my opinion and others might not share it. But from my perspective, and as witnessed by the hundreds and hundreds of forum posts, Phantom was extremely cheap in a lot of situations. Rushing people, tanking the damage and then immediately dying anyway just felt cheap. Now he has a lot more risk if you want to be melee only and you actually have to be smart about your play. And people could adjust and use the cloak to make it easier to flank and use your guns from time to time now :slight_smile:

(OmaGretel) #13

Maybe they don’t want him to be a “spooky ghost”. Maybe they realized that stealth was a bad idea and is not fun. Maybe they just want him to be a melee merc and not some lame backstabber.

(jetJester) #14

My 2 cents:
I was watching outc1der (level 59 player that plays comp and never uses phantom for those that wonders) playing since my DB doesen’t work, someone in chat asked:
“What do you think about Phantom nerf”
“He wasn’t strong before now he’s completely useless”
:slight_smile:

(BBYipho) #15

I’m still 100% for just seperating the abilities. I love the katana nerf and it really did needed that. And Phantom taking health damage through the reflective armor was a must though still not done in the way people would have wanted.

I do not think his stealth in general needed to be more visable just seperated into two seperate abilities.

I think the health nerf kind of sucks for Phantom players, then again that’s like one more shot? Still doesn’t solve the problem of a cloaking/armored guy running full force at you. A single shotgun shot will probably not finish him before he stabs the low health mercs.

(ghostBase) #16

My favorite Merc is Proxy. I just use Phantom as my profile picture because he resembles a samurai and I think it looks cool.
Also I seem to be one of the few people who actually try to make a statement how and why phantom was and is overpowered, so I should be the last person you should call out on being “mad because my favorite merc was nerfed”

(Suave) #17

I’m going to play Phantom now, i stopped playing him because people cried, granted this was mainly in public games and people under lvl 5 most of the time, the more experienced players knew how to counter him.

Nerfs to him this patch:
-10 hp nerf
-Shield no longer absorbing even with 1% shield (justified for sure)
-stealth more visible (i didn’t have many issues finding him tbh)
-sounds more obvious (louder decloak would be good)
-4s longer cloak reuse timer
-kek-10 nerfed
-katana run speed reduced (not just katana)
-Katana secondary strike shorter (justified)
-Shield no longer absorbing gas damage (well, duh, justified)

i haven’t played him yet but i certainly will try him again, many of these nerfs were asked for him, but i don’t think anyone had the idea of having ALL the nerfs applied simultaneously :stuck_out_tongue:

Suave

(lavaFeline) #18

[quote=“ghostBase;50613”]
Also I seem to be one of the few people who actually try to make a statement how and why phantom was and is overpowered, [/quote]

erm…there were more than “a few” people making that statement…

(ghostBase) #19

[quote=“lavaFeline;50721”][quote=“ghostBase;50613”]
Also I seem to be one of the few people who actually try to make a statement how and why phantom was and is overpowered, [/quote]

erm…there were more than “a few” people making that statement…[/quote]

But how many of those actually went beyond “phantom op pls nerf” spamming

(Nickles) #20

This seems like a tuning phase. They took in all the negative talk about Phantom and tried to “fix” it. Once people play and we see more feedback that can’t just be written off as “dramatic Phantom players,” I think we’ll see some of the changes being dialed back. I don’t own Phantom, and fighting him can be annoying - but I would have been happy with his damage resistance being nerfed while cloaked. This was the only thing that irked me about him, because I felt it was a punishment for being aware of my surroundings and shooting him as he came running by. Not to mention he now buzzes like a yellow jacket whenever he’s running by. So the decision to make him even MORE visible and MORE noisy is a little bit baffling. I would have taken their giving ally and enemy Phantoms different noise ques so I didn’t pee myself when a cloaked team mate approached from behind over screwing up his entire stealth shtick.

The melee thing is straight up baffling, though. It doesn’t just effect Phantom, and I don’t see the reason for it. Was Phantom’s katana just too strong? Cricket bat was never amazing, exactly, so why? This one more than anything I want to see undone.

You have to keep in mind that feedback was coming from Dirty Bomb’s forums, the Steam forums and Reddit. On the day that Phantom was released, there were threads dedicated to hating Phantom. So that there is a large quantity of critiques of his character isn’t surprising. I just think more would be done if people weren’t so toxic to one another. People who play Phantom tell those that complain that they’re bad players who need to git gud, while those who do not play Phantom accuse Phantom players of being bad and heavily reliant on a broken character. Just blindly insinuating that the other party is bad at the game doesn’t get anything done.