Who the fuck made these phantom changes?

[Kaori1]

Most easily countered merc in the game, nerfed by reddit tears. Now your community knows that if they cry hard enough, they’ll get just about anything they want.

[firebrickRetreiver]

I defended Phantom by calling him a casual filter. If you can’t kill a 120 health person bum-rushing you from the front with a melee, you really shouldn’t be playing this game. Then, I bought and played him. Of course, people would yell and scream and pout about him, but you have to think of it this way.

Isn’t his Katana pretty much a shorter-ranged shotgun?
If an Aura ran around the back without you noticing, you would be dead before reacting. Hell, it does more damage. She RUNS faster, and has more utility. Yet, people bitch and moan about Phantom.

His only (and I mean ONLY) problem is the hang time on his Katana’s alt fire. It should not be some sort of a laser beam for 2 seconds that damages anyone that you aim at. What it should be is a physical lunge in a direction that would actually MOVE you somewhere while damaging people. This way, he can actually have some sort of mobility.

Then, they nerfed his Katana. Ok, understandable nerfs there, his alt-fire was indeed too weird to use. Wait, slower run speed? It’s already difficult to melee anyone a second time if they’re aware, since they just hop away and unload into you!
Then, they nerfed Chopper. Well, it’s balanced for every class BUT the melee focused (obviously? It’s like Unshakable on Rhino; it plays to the classes’ strengths). Could’ve just switched it or something…
Then, they nerfed his Health. Well, he is indeed a stealth class, he shouldn’t have so much health…
Then, they nerfed his Cloak. Wait. So you’re focusing on him being a stealth class with these nerfs… and you’re nerfing the ONLY part that makes him a stealth class? Recharge time is up, in CONJUNCTION with louder cloaking/decloaking sounds, and a nerf to his armor strength?
Then, they nerfed the SMGs he’s supposed to be using.

Melee Phantom is pretty much dead. Not from the secondary fire Katana nerfs, but from the slower run speed (just TRY landing a second hit on anyone with some experience. They just hop away and kill you in several seconds), and lower health/weaker cloak.

Gun Phantom is significantly weaker with gun nerfs and lower health/weaker cloak.

Hell, FRAGGER is a better assassin than Phantom is at this point.

So what the hell IS he supposed to do?

[Hastur609]

@firebrickRetreiver said:

So what the hell IS he supposed to do?

Make the nerf herders happy, that’s what he’s supposed to do. Now he fills no role beyond being every 12 year old’s allowance sink because at the very least he’s godamn edgy.

He’s been over-nerfed, using him at high level play was already pushing it if you didn’t know all his ins and outs, now you can just forget about him as soon as you hit rank 10

[loonyTop]

Phantom players today:

[Reddeadcap]

Have to admit, the -10 HP and making him even more visible when he’s already very visible when moving was a bad idea, the rest don’t seam all that bad on paper.

[loonyTop]

[quote=“commendatoryRiver;51207”]> @firebrickRetreiver said:

So what the hell IS he supposed to do?

Make the nerf herders happy, that’s what he’s supposed to do. Now he fills no role beyond being every 12 year old’s allowance sink because at the very least he’s godamn edgy.

He’s been over-nerfed, using him at high level play was already pushing it if you didn’t know all his ins and outs, now you can just forget about him as soon as you hit rank 10

[/quote]

Great, isn’t it?

[Kaori1]

Just got top score with a Bushwacka, better tell reddit so that they can nerf him too!

[watsyurdeal]

Nah man Nader is where it’s at, I go about 3:1 with her all the time

[quote=“Amerika;50593”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;50556”][quote=“Amerika;50550”]Phantom was capable of getting pretty cheap melee kills which didn’t fit the flow of the game very well. Now you can’t go rushing in as easily and get a kill (while also dying yourself). Now, if you don’t play right, you might actually die before getting the cheap kill.

Remember, Dirty Bomb is a gun game first. It is not Chivalry Phantom is still great at melee when the occasion calls for it and still has access to great primary weapons which many people have, up until now, not even tried to use. So rushing people blindly is no longer going to be as effective as it was. It will still work, but you have a lot more of a chance to die now. And some of the abuse that a lot of people didn’t know about in gunfights with the absorb is also toned down a bit.[/quote]

The problem is tho he can’t actually get in melee range easily to be useful

This is my issue with Phantom, he doesn’t need damage reduction to get in close, he needs to be invisible, completely invisible, to get within range where the enemy is forced to fight him up close.

The current visibility means you can EASILY see him coming across the map, that doesn’t make any sense. If they want him to be a “spooky ghost”, then make it so relies on surprise, not armor to protect him.[/quote]

He wasn’t a melee only character despite what many people play him as. He has guns, great ones. Running in and tanking damage was pretty off-putting for a lot of people and it didn’t fit in this game since this isn’t Chivalry. He’s still good in melee and can still flank easily. He just won’t be rushing at people who don’t have a ton of game sense yet and get cheap kills that can’t be avoided.

This is of course my opinion and others might not share it. But from my perspective, and as witnessed by the hundreds and hundreds of forum posts, Phantom was extremely cheap in a lot of situations. Rushing people, tanking the damage and then immediately dying anyway just felt cheap. Now he has a lot more risk if you want to be melee only and you actually have to be smart about your play. And people could adjust and use the cloak to make it easier to flank and use your guns from time to time now :)[/quote]

But that’s just it, it isn’t any easier than it would be with Nader or Sawbonez, the point of cloak is to get behind people from right under the nose, hiding in plain sight.

Cloak doesn’t do that, at all, you’re better off using a Merc with similar guns and hp ad much better utility. Phantom has the potential to be the ultimate clutch picking class in close quarters, but right now he’s in the Arty tier of usability.

Sure Arty for example has good guns and can give ammo, but his ability is garbage compared to the orbital strike or air strike.

Phantom is similar, sure you can use him, but why would you when have Nader and Fragger?

[triteCherry]

He’s been over-nerfed, using him at high level play was already pushing it if you didn’t know all his ins and outs, now you can just forget about him as soon as you hit rank 10

If every merc was optimal for high level play then it would be a balancing miracle, even more so with the amount of incoming mercs.

[Kaori1]

Now they’re celebrating their victory on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/3e7bmo/the_long_awaited_phantom_nerfs/

Some are even crying that it wasn’t enough.

Also this made me laugh:

Well the thing is:

1. Keep Phantom OP, every non Phantom player has a bad time.
2. Nerf Phantom into the ground, only Phantom players mad.
   I’ll take option 2 any day of the week.

^People like this are now deciding the fate of this game.

[Gi.Am]

Just a preliminary opinion based on one game (me phantom, enemy had 2 phantoms). Yes the shear volume of nerfs hit him pretty hard.

Especially the trifactor combination of higher visibility, removal of the shieldgate and the melee nerfs. He is slower now, not only is the katana slowing him down now, but he has to use walking alot more to not get spotted too early, which however gives people more time to spot him and means the audio cluess become easier too hear. The slowing also has the bad side effect that phantom is quite often late to the game, making him even more useless for the team, since the additional damage he provides is not there.
Because he is easier to spot he will get shot more often which means the HP nerf and the removal of the shieldgate hit him harder than they would, if they where the only nerfs.

While I understand that Phantom is not a straight up melee merc I would argue that he is supposed to be slightly better at it than other Mercs but he isn’t anymore. He was always too slow for straight up melee but now he is so often spotted at the last second that 80% of the time he is in a full on melee and unfortunaly the squishies wipe the floor with him in that game.

Now with all the grief out of the way.
I do see the changes positive the melee nerfs are pretty good. They balanced the katana to a true sidegrate to the other melee weapons (which they indicated was the original idea anyways) and even give the non katana loadouts an advantage (making him faster).
The SMG nerfs imo are a good thing and are needed. Not for phantom but simply to give all SMGs viability without making it the best overall weapon category.

What they did imo is pretty smart, sure it sucks for phantom players but they pretty much fixed all the indirect stuff that made him OP and took all his abilities to a very low level.
Removing a large amount of grief surrounding him. And after everyone has learned to spot him in easy mode. they can slowly tweak him upwards to make him viable again without the community going apeshit insane again.

Still sucks tho for phantom players.

[KayDubz]

[quote=“jetJester;50599”]My 2 cents:
I was watching outc1der (level 59 player that plays comp and never uses phantom for those that wonders) playing since my DB doesen’t work, someone in chat asked:
“What do you think about Phantom nerf”
“He wasn’t strong before now he’s completely useless”
[/quote]

Oh yeah of course. 1 guys opinion outweighs the majority of the community, all because he has a high level.

There totally were not any high level players who complained of phantom being cheap or having a low skill floor.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;51291”]

There totally were not any high level players who complained of phantom being cheap or having a low skill floor. [/quote]

And there totally weren’t any who wanted him to have a slight nerf, or think that he was ok, just people need to adapt.

There’s a lot of different opinions about the class, and I imagine we’ll see a ton more. Especially when he hits the free rotation and everybody suddenly realizes he’s not nearly the God they made him out to be.

[Eox]

I have to admit. I hate Phantom, and not a little ! For me, the simple presence of that small guy on the enemy team oftenly killed all of my hope to (try to) have fun in a single game (unless the Phantom player was really bad). And it’s very rare that I act like that. Most of the time I check if I am the only one. If it’s the case, then too bad : I suck it up and try to get better. But here I was very far from being the only one.

To me, he felt cheap to die against, he made you feel like you are the worst player in the world, he was poorly skill indexed, annoying as fuck, and I am for sure not the only one to think that… Yet I didn’t hoped for a blunt and silly harsh nerf and then never hear about it again. In Phantom’s case I was sure that a nerf wouldn’t change anything : it would just piss off Phantom players without solving the main issues. So I expected much more than that. I expected a rework. Something that could please to Phantom users as well as to those who are in the enemy team, and give Phantom a special place in the game.

What Phantom needed was not a list of nerfs as long as my palm. He needed a rework. Those changes here just probably made him worthless without even adressing the main issues (lack of teamplay, lack of skill indexing, extremely unfun to fight against, is more focused on stupidly rushing at you rather than being stealthy).

Phantom deserves better than that. He should be a hard to play yet rewarding character. Not the mess that we have now. He should be a blast for those who were able to master him, without feeling so cheap that it’s pissing off everyone harshly.

I really hope the dev team will just look at Phantom again. I made a Feedback about Phantom here, were I suggested some reworks, and discussing with other users about some ideas (mainly with @Jojack , @Watsyurdeal and @Gi.Am ) : http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/13811/phantom-feedback-by-einde-who-ya-gonna-call-phantombusters/ The discussion was judged as interesting by a lot of users, so I guess my rework ideas were not bad for most of people. I guess the can be a nice start in order to give a nice rework for Phantom.

[affableTricycle]

[quote=“ostmustis;50503”]I guess it was reddit, the balance team of dirty bomb.

Try this community in this forums or do you not read around? The balance team has fallen into the trap of listening to the mass of community whiners for balance suggestions xP. [/quote]

Reddit HAS to be full of whiners because for ages this forum was full of fanboys who would shut down anyone who spoke negatively of the game.

[Jojack]

As a Phantom hater I really don’t like the changes at all. Having said that, I haven’t tried them out yet. I will play as Phantom for awhile before I make my mind up for sure.

[BBYipho]

Been playing Phantom. Just to catch anyone with the sword today I had to long jump into them. Katana nerf was ok but the stab forward range should be a tad bit longer. Still think the ability should be seperated but as it is now as long he isn’t prepared around a corner you can kill him… “Probably a bit too easy.”

The two SMGs don’t feel as bad, it affects every other merc with them. It has been my primary source of kills as Phantom today and Spamming Katana left click on a group of people ended up more effective then the right click.

Final thoughts on Phantom Nerf: Don’t nerf too hard next time, rework skill, return hp back to normal, give katana right click more forward distance (Possibly make two hit zones, tip being the weaker).

[jetJester]

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;51291”][quote=“jetJester;50599”]My 2 cents:
I was watching outc1der (level 59 player that plays comp and never uses phantom for those that wonders) playing since my DB doesen’t work, someone in chat asked:
“What do you think about Phantom nerf”
“He wasn’t strong before now he’s completely useless”
[/quote]

Oh yeah of course. 1 guys opinion outweighs the majority of the community, all because he has a high level.

There totally were not any high level players who complained of phantom being cheap or having a low skill floor. [/quote]

Someone with a lot deeper knowledge of the game in general of course outweight opinion of people that has close to no one game knowledge

About him having a low level skill floor to be effective i agree but that is in no way even close to a decent solution

[Jojack]

[quote=“jetJester;51542”][quote=“Kay-Dubz;51291”][quote=“jetJester;50599”]My 2 cents:
I was watching outc1der (level 59 player that plays comp and never uses phantom for those that wonders) playing since my DB doesen’t work, someone in chat asked:
“What do you think about Phantom nerf”
“He wasn’t strong before now he’s completely useless”
[/quote]

Oh yeah of course. 1 guys opinion outweighs the majority of the community, all because he has a high level.

There totally were not any high level players who complained of phantom being cheap or having a low skill floor. [/quote]

Someone with a lot deeper knowledge of the game in general of course outweight opinion of people that has close to no one game knowledge

About him having a low level skill floor to be effective i agree but that is in no way even close to a decent solution[/quote]

So one guy, who’s perspective is that of the top 1% talent pool of the game, should have more of a voice than the majority of the player base. Sounds like a smart business model.

Granted, I think they totally flubbed up the changes to Phantom, and so far the poll is reflecting that. So maybe the player base isn’t as stupid as you think they are.

[WinterShade]

[quote=“Gi.Am;51283”]

He is slower now, not only is the katana slowing him down now[/quote]

The thing is, that 2.5% decrease is as noticeable as a fly 3 miles/kilometers (for those of you not on the somewhat lousy Imperial system) away. However the turn limiter is really the issue facing Phantom as while he can use his LMB attack for melee it still has that turn limiter making it just as bad as the heavy attack and no longer a viable option.