[QUOTE=Apples;424750]…The third part is my favourite with the elevator thingy, although it is freakingly slow its the part of the map where actual good fights occur IMO, many cover with a mix of cqc and still some room for long distance domination by both teams, I like it…
.[/QUOTE]
Its the most open space of the map maybe that why its the best part …and the one you like the most ,me too I guest
[QUOTE=Apples;424750]I think the map is a tad too much defensive biaised, so even a minor stacked team on defense would hold the attackers at first spawn easily, I would make the way from spawn to EV (very first portion) more linear vertically wise but also with more cover, so even if the defense have some great sports (they have the higher grounds at start very quickly), at least attack can still cover and try some pushes.
once the bridge is passed by EV then the map become more “easy” for attackers, the chapel itself should be resized to be bigger end only 2 entrances for attackers, now it is just a spamfest into tiny spaces and it add nothing to the map sadly, while it should be one of a keypoint in it. I want to see actual combat going in the church, not just “rush in, plop some nades and rush for obj, get it or dye trying, rince and repeat”, another solution would be that the defenders should be able to defend in front of the church, with some cover added, and not be forced to defend inside, this way you can focus the combat in front / a bit in the church and keep the objectives inside, it might be too hard for the attackers I dont know, this need to be tested, if the first phase become less defense biased the general flow of the maps can still be good, I feel like this map can lend to many double full hold in comp, and full hold at spawn in pub, and noone want that.
The third part is my favourite with the elevator thingy, although it is freakingly slow its the part of the map where actual good fights occur IMO, many cover with a mix of cqc and still some room for long distance domination by both teams, I like it.
Final part is (to me) just a total carnage where no solid defense can be set because the obj and the delivery point are too close together, it’s just chaos and spam all the way because the whole players are battling in a really tiny space with a lot of covers, so random nades / airstrikes can weep out the whole enemy team in one or two lucky blows.
Well to me this is the least balanced map of all, and the flow seems kinda broken, well, maybe not broken but its easily broken by a little unbalance in the teams, and to me that shows that many things are still wrong.[/QUOTE]
totally agree
In general, make the attackers’ first objective easy (e.g. get EV going, and move it up onto that main road towards the church). Just to get the game going.
[QUOTE=Apples;424750]
The third part is my favourite with the elevator thingy, although it is freakingly slow its the part of the map where actual good fights occur IMO, many cover with a mix of cqc and still some room for long distance domination by both teams, I like it. [/QUOTE]
im quite surprised anyone likes this bit. from the time the elevator starts to the moment it finishes, everyone might as well just stop and go make a coffee.
its just fight for no reason. defense cant stop it, attack cant make it go forward its just emptiness Also this tends to be the time the defense can no longer get further than the archway. the only reason to would be to stop repair of the things! but you have little chance of making it and seeing as it doesnt matter, kettle on.
its a shame because the layout looks good. especially after the de-cluttering nice and open. its that dam elevator. it just causes this big pause in the game.
and lets be clear there are 5 yes 5 objectives at this point to defend. 1 would be hard enough but 5 meh kettle!
the last bit is another lemming run. too many of these guys. every map except waterloo has a data-core lemming run. needs to be more creative.
[QUOTE=iwound;424830]im quite surprised anyone likes this bit. from the time the elevator starts to the moment it finishes, everyone might as well just stop and go make a coffee.
its just fight for no reason. defense cant stop it, attack cant make it go forward its just emptiness[/QUOTE]
I like this part because of the layout which allow better fights, not because of the “action going” which is, as you pointed out, pretty moot. One solution could be that the elevator switch can be either repaired or destructed (if its not the case already, sorry if i missed that), and that with 0 switch repaired the elevator simply doesnt move, with 1 it moves (faster than now) with 2 faster again and with 3 really fast, this way actually controling the area and push back the defense has a point as the elevator will go really fast, and for the defenders, controling the area has a point because it’ll totally stop the elevator (but not reset it to keep an offense biased part). Elevator’s speed / damage needed to destruct a switch would indeed need major tweaks and playtest, but I think it can bring some more “goal” into this phase, along with the great layout allowing for good firefights, it would start to feel like a real playable map 
Yea I really think the lift speed buttons should be reworked and the lift shouldn’t start until all 3 (or at least 2 out of 3) are repaired.
An example flow could go like this:
So basically you would have to always repair the controls and at least one generator, with a repaired second generator providing a substantial (double) lift speed buff.
You could even make it so it doesn’t matter which generator you repair first.
I agree its a nice area. I would just like it more focused on one objective other than the EV.
the problem is defense cant get to the places they need to defend because they are on their own due to drip spawn and too many choices. So the fighting is too spread out, for defense.Also they cant actually stop anything from happening. attack can easily reach the objectives.
Possibly 1 single on/off lift control. a covey could hack a control on the defense side of the yard. maybe under the arches.
This puts the onus back on the attack to do something.
it feels more like an objective for the defense! and once the control is built then what. kettle!
How about having the church as an entrance and then out back a cemetery with the ammo canisters? This would use the Church’s rather narrow shape as a good bottle neck while allowing a pretty open place to fight with cover behind grave stones and tombs. There could even be one way, drop down, exit at the back into the construction yard for a long run back (Yes I know this goes through the Enemy spawn but do they hang around at spawn, in the church or in the cemetery?
I like this idea, I also suggested an inner courtyard, then you can show off some effects with water running off the roof.
The church itself is not enough. The whole map needs to open up in more vertical and horizontal routes. There’s a lot of unused space that could make the map incredibly more enjoyable without ruining any of the work already put in it.
True but Anti has said that there will be different styles of maps and I can live with a more closed, corridor type one for varieties sake. If there are areas within it to spread out and have a big scrap.
[QUOTE=Mustang;424843]An example flow could go like this:
tbh …last objective is worst then before imo, it seem Claustrophobic …may just me idk but that the way i feel in there as defender
1st obj: If defenders get holed up in the bell-balcony (to left of bridge) its usually gg - I’ve always felt that balcony (esp. the one nearest the EV start) strongly favours the defending team. The bit once you round the bend is good, especially after the road was widened.
Chapel obj - room is too small as has been mentioned before - the room could be made twice as wide, also more entrances for defenders. I also like the cemetary idea.
Lift section - am with []/[] on this one.
Last obj - the large amount of clutter now makes this very random (British Bulldogs style) and it ends up in a bit of a mess currently, for attackers and defenders.
[QUOTE=rookie1;425360]If I may suggest a scenario/sketch that would make more fun to play last objective
that works for me. there’s way too much cover and not needed as we know.
and the indoor section would add something interesting, just needs 2 more entrances so everyone can get inside to fight.
rather than on their way.
[QUOTE=iwound;425382]that works for me. there’s way too much cover and not needed as we know.
and the indoor section would add something interesting, just needs 2 more entrances so everyone can get inside to fight.
rather than on their way.[/QUOTE]
i did a very raw pic but i was thinking of doors to underg park for defenders ,places for the door switch (could be on first floor building ect, but i will leave that to SD if they like the idea
i dont like the first stage . the best would be to remove the bridgeway for the defenders if the tank is repaired , this is for me the biggest problem.maybe increase the way for the defenders to the bridge .the main problem is ,you always get killed from behind :/.i cant say many about the other stages right now,so i will update this comment soon.
[QUOTE=rookie1;425360]If I may suggest a scenario/sketch that would make more fun to play last objective
I like this. QW Andes last obj was great fun and had almost no cover on the last obj until you got there.
