What mode do you prefer for pub - obj or sw?


(Rex) #1

What mode do you prefer for public in DBs current state, objective or stopwatch?
(It’s not asked what mode you would like to see in the future, but only what you enjoy more at the moment)

I myself tend more towards stopwatch, which is strange because I was always used to play obj in previous SD games. I think that’s due to difference in the playing time duration. The switch from the end of the last map to the start of a new one takes already too long and compared to the time you actually spend playing, it makes a difference when one round only last a few minutes in the worst case. In sw you got at least to play two rounds which doubles the playing time.
The next point is, when I play only one side I like would like to attack on one map and defend on the next. Not always attacking or defending like forever.


(onYn) #2

I feel like the stopwatch mode is the way to go. It feels for me like the more competitive mode - what somehow is the goal of this game, to be competitive. At the same time it allows you to compare attacking and defending on a specific map one after another. This should overall be better for giving feedback.


(tokamak) #3

You’d first have to define what ‘pub’ is going to be.

This is a huge opportunity for ranked ladders in the main game.


(spookify) #4

SW!!!

Obj is a joke especially with 3 turrets on Bridge…
Just an all out spam-fest…


(PixelTwitch) #5

I feel both modes are pretty bad…
Stopwatch is less bad…


(spookify) #6

I hate to say this but Ranked games there can not be duplicate mercs in game… SD needs to get on their horse and pop out 15 more mercs and then we have a ranked game… That way a team with first pick of merc and Pick Bush or like LOL ban him…

LOL seems to do a lot of stuff right when it comes to ranked play…


(spookify) #7

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;511547]I feel both modes are pretty bad…
Stopwatch is less bad…[/QUOTE]

The maps and merc ability spam makes both bad…

Maps are not exciting… And the objectives with in the maps are not exiting nor do the flow or have a story behind them…

Just hey… Lets plant dyno here… Why??? I dont know… OK!! (Dyno Planted)… Now what… “It will explode and 2 gates will open 100 yards away that have nothing to do with the dyno explosion”… :mad:


(PixelTwitch) #8

[QUOTE=spookify;511548]I hate to say this but Ranked games there can not be duplicate mercs in game… SD needs to get on their horse and pop out 15 more mercs and then we have a ranked game… That way a team with first pick of merc and Pick Bush or like LOL ban him…

LOL seems to do a lot of stuff right when it comes to ranked play…[/QUOTE]

I very much agree with this statement.


(Rex) #9

By ‘pub’ I mean how we play at the moment on the servers. (Also no match making)
Don’t forget I’m not talking about the future, but only about the current state.


(tokamak) #10

Aah right I got that wrong.

As for testing the maps, I think Objective would be better. Faster cycle through the diverse maps and there’s not the equalising effect that comes with SW. A map has to work on it’s own time limits or it’s not a good map.


(prophett) #11

SW, but would love to see CTF


(BomBaKlaK) #12

[QUOTE=spookify;511548]I hate to say this but Ranked games there can not be duplicate mercs in game… SD needs to get on their horse and pop out 15 more mercs and then we have a ranked game… That way a team with first pick of merc and Pick Bush or like LOL ban him…

LOL seems to do a lot of stuff right when it comes to ranked play…[/QUOTE]

Please nooo ! Freedom dude ! this is not LOL


(spookify) #13

I am all for freedom when it comes to perks, crates and add on things but this might need to happen because it bans op mercs and leaves the picking up to the players. The only was this will work is if SD makes 15 or 20 more mercs…

If, and I’m assuming they will keep the 3 mercs maybe each team can only have one of each mercs.


(PixelTwitch) #14

That “Freedom” is actually what is keeping you enslaved to a set strategy.
Sure in public none ranked it can be cool to play what ever you like.

In match making with this system you are forced to play the most effective Mercs at set times during a map. If you refuse to do so you will be made out to be a feeder noob that does not know what hes doing because “everyone knows you need 3 Skyhammers for the first objective” and “what noob would play Arty inside on underground OMG!”. Having a draft mode removes this aspect in some ways and allows for a much more diverse group of strats for each map and objective. Having a Proxy on defence on White Chapel where if playing “perfectly” you would have had an extra Skyhammer really changes the way you need to play. Taking down the EV with mines would also force the attackers to either accept the EV will go down lots of times or push in front of it to clear the mines. SURE! you can do this with the 3 Merc system… The thing is, if you was playing to win, you would not because taking out the EV is easier with other Mercs. The problem is you need that Proxy for when you attack to repair the EV… Picks and Bans would force some crazy strats and cool plays to watch.


(onYn) #15

Okay, so let´s go offtopic (sorry for that^^):

I actually do like the idea of drafting, but I have a different idea for implementing this.

Player based limitations that allow an individual player to play only ONE merc during an entire match is not a smooth solution for stopwatch (maybe if you would split every single objective apart and make every objective a round in itself, what in my eyes would be fatal). The reason for that is that the nature of stopwatch often is a case of “hit” or “miss”. Both teams usually try to outplay each other, not only in the game but also in therms of team setup. With different lineups swapping from super yolo risky to very defensive play styles, depending on the progress of a specific objective or entire map progress there seems to be so much more possible interesting interactions where people not only try to find good positions and work on there team coordination in order to win with a “locked” lineup but at the same time swap specific mercs to suite the situation better and develop clutch situations that are much less likely with such a merc limitation.

So my idea is to allow every team to draft a specific lineup of mercs, with specific mercs being restricted to be used by only 1 or 2 players at max at the same time but in general being usable by every member of the team. This way we would have all the benefits of a pick and ban phase, while still giving the teams the in game flexibility they should have I think.


(INF3RN0) #16

I don’t see the big deal on a draft system? There will be more than one merc per archetype, so even if you don’t get to play your preferred merc every time… you still have access to plenty of others that perform the same role for the team. If mercs aren’t equally as good then that’s just a flaw in the game that needs to be fixed. Freedom is a loose term in this scenario…

I’d enjoy seeing drafting become a relevant part of the game when it comes to developing strategies based on drafting outcomes. That of course would require the merc meta to be much deeper than it is currently though, but then we’re back at the whole game direction topic.


(onYn) #17

Well, thank you for again puting most of what I wanted to say in a shorter better sounding way :smiley:


(fzl) #18

sw only…!

obj is too booooooooring…


(Glottis-3D) #19

sw
10chrsss


(tokamak) #20

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;511578]That “Freedom” is actually what is keeping you enslaved to a set strategy.
Sure in public none ranked it can be cool to play what ever you like.

In match making with this system you are forced to play the most effective Mercs at set times during a map. If you refuse to do so you will be made out to be a feeder noob that does not know what hes doing because “everyone knows you need 3 Skyhammers for the first objective” and “what noob would play Arty inside on underground OMG!”. Having a draft mode removes this aspect in some ways and allows for a much more diverse group of strats for each map and objective. Having a Proxy on defence on White Chapel where if playing “perfectly” you would have had an extra Skyhammer really changes the way you need to play. Taking down the EV with mines would also force the attackers to either accept the EV will go down lots of times or push in front of it to clear the mines. SURE! you can do this with the 3 Merc system… The thing is, if you was playing to win, you would not because taking out the EV is easier with other Mercs. The problem is you need that Proxy for when you attack to repair the EV… Picks and Bans would force some crazy strats and cool plays to watch.[/QUOTE]

First of all, who cares what other players say you ‘obviously’ need to do. Player attitudes about the meta-game shouldn’t be balanced for, it will shape itself just fine.

Then, limiting the amount of duplicate mercs, or keeping each merc ‘unique’ is only going to lower the diversity in a game. Why? Because it pulls all the possible team combinations back to the mean.

Unique tactics are born by having a select bunch of mercs compounding their niche into a super-niche and overwhelming their opponents that way. Eight skyhammers blowing the bejesus out of the opponent team right at the start of a match to secure the first objective is not only amazingly difficult to organise, it’s also incredibly difficult to execute.

And Skyhammer is just your example. But imagine a battalion of turrets slowly being placed, replaced and repaired, slowly moving towards the objective step by step. Epic. Eight proxies with criquet bats are still incredibly scary and the same goes Eight phoenix constantly reviving each other. I don’t think eight naders or eight rhinos need much illustration.

And those would just be the ‘super niches’ the huge achilles heels already balances the most of it. The real scary stuff is six niche mercs backed up by two perfectly complementary mercs.

Figuring all these things out adds flavour to the game. They’re not going to happen often because they’re difficult to execute and highly risky. If a particular tactic becomes so prevalent it starts to become too common then the merc itself needs to be adjusted (rather than capping it’s ability if used by multiple mercs).

Stacking mercs is what creates the diversity. Not being able to stack them and forcing teams to have a diverse set of mercs will only make all the teams more similar because you just disabled all the outliers.

Your concern about players feeling forced into tried and tested tacitcs however, IS a huge risk when you start limiting duplicate mercs. That’s when ‘the proxy’ of the team ‘has’ to immediatly repair the EV otherwise that player is a noob. ‘the sawbonez’ of the team HAS to do his medic duties and ‘the skyhammer’ needs to be the teams ammo caddy. Because only one player has this role the team will feel no qualms about making such demands. They’ll even start blaming that one merc for not doing his job. “We lost because our Nader didn’t do her job”.