What kind of Dirty Bomb would you have preferred getting?

Sinee · 2016-02-21 05:51:13 UTC

I like the sentiment of your post, but it’s not a great deal better than the OP’s in a lot of ways. We’re on a forum that’s for the purposes of discussing the game, that’s what people are going to do here, regardless if the devs use it or not, but I do agree that there seems to be a notion that people know better than SD, and the horrible injustices that seem to happen to players are blown way out of proportion[/quote]

This is not verbatim but changes are inspired by forum posts here and on reddit (and the stats that they pull mostly from min. 10 and comp servers). According to the Smooth-talker SD Smooth in the last AMA (it was recent, don’t know if it was the very last).

Competitors are just not speaking. And do not speak because these game changes go on about in a consensus sort of fashion. And largely what we get are lower-tier players that drown out the voices of players that have more vision and understanding of this dynamic game. Crickets, everytime there’s an AMA, here, or on reddit. They’ve given up, they get drowned out by horrible players. SD needs to stray away from this community involvement platform or do away from it completely.

Man. I don’t know, I usually hold unpopular opinions but holy fucking crap. I havent spoken out in awhile and I presume its the same reason why others have stopped caring about this game competitively. [/quote]

I don’t really get what in the flying fuck you were trying to say in your first post, but I do agree with you on a lot of points here.

It’s the majority that have the loudest voices. And at least for me and @Merciless, we tend to feel like we’re in an overlooked minority who take this shit seriously and have played for hundreds of hours. For example, with Vassili changes. Not many people play Vassili. The majority who just wants him nerfed so they don’t have to deal with the rare MLG Vassili have a voice louder because of their numbers, than people who actually play Vassili and offer constructive criticism or feedback about his changes. He’s too hard to play, so people don’t play him.

This isn’t a thread about the latest sniper nerf though, but overall. But this is probably why we see stupid weapons get stupid needless buffs, and other mercs or weapons get pointless nerfs. Meh. We feel like the game’s being dumbed down and it’s really discouraging.
We’ve both had the pleasure of playing with you a couple times in the past and I figure you’re one of those that takes the game seriously and has a lot of hours invested as well.

This is the only medium I use to make my opinions about the game heard though, but if there’s others besides the plague of Reddit, I’d certainly get in on that. I don’t think SD should entirely ignore the community, because community feedback can be very beneficial to a beta game. But if it’s leading to the game being dumbed down because of the majority’s loud voice, then maybe that should be the case. I don’t know anymore.

srswizard · 2016-02-21 07:16:49 UTC

I think that they’ve ruined Vassili over time.
We used to have no sway when moving, we were able to instagib on HS, and we were able to jump snipe with accuracy.
Now they’ve taken these things away.

I’m completely okay with the removal of instagibs on HS, and as much as I dislike the sway, perhaps it had to be added for balancing reasons, but this jump sniping nerf is just adding randomness to playing Vassili, that you can’t adjust to, and I don’t agree with changes like that.

Next to this jump sniping change, there are numerous other randomness-factors that I’d like to see tweaked, or removed.

I feel like this game can’t be seriously played competitively, ever, because we lack the development tools to configure and test the game, until we hit the sweet spot, and therefore we’ll never have a “pro-mod” of sorts.
The devs clearly aren’t even trying to tweak the game towards the competitive players’ ideals, and with all the randomness, the game’s just very frustrating to play competitively.

TheVulpesFox · 2016-02-21 07:36:23 UTC

I don’t like this thread at all.
However, I do like jumping into a game and just chilling out. I do not miss the abuse of competitive games such as Dota 2 (I have told myself to never play it again). But being more competitive will possibly bring teams in, more competitions, more funding, more feedback from experienced fps players etc.

teflonlove · 2016-02-21 08:56:46 UTC

I’m still confused about what distinguishes a casual player from competitive one. Previous posts have made it clear that it’s not about “clueless noobs” vs “elitist pricks”. But they still left is open what it’s about instead. @srswizard at least pointed out that randomness makes a game more casual. That makes sense to me because no amount of practice can compensate for randomness (e.g. bullet spread).

So a competitive game is attractive to competitive players because it encourages and rewards activities competitive players like and casual players (mostly) detest?

Such as:

Stand in front of a wall and transfer deterministic bullet spread patterns to your muscle memory
Load maps in offline mode and practice skill jumps
Watch a skilled player as spectator instead of playing yourself
Join a clan and comply to its rules for minimum activity
Regularly play with the same crowd, finding your role in the team
Skrim with other clans and participate in tournaments
Prepare and practice tactics for certain situations without actually playing a complete game
Analyze games played by other teams and adjust your tactics accordingly
After matches, do a post mortem and collect “lessons learned”

While casual players mostly want a “quick join” button that throws them into a balanced match with people of equal skill level?

They do improve over time by just playing the game and learning from their successes and mistakes. Eventually though the reach a skill ceiling they have no desire to improve further because it would require activities like those mentioned above, which they find boring.

Is this what the OP meant?

Because if so, I fail to see why a game cannot carter for both crowds. All it needs is a decent match making that separates them from each other. Which Dirty Bomb, sadly, currently lacks.

neverplayseriou · 2016-02-21 10:18:20 UTC

@TheVulpesFox to bad that sd is removing teams from comp, next update you can make a 2 man party for comp

Jostabeere · 2016-02-21 11:37:20 UTC

@Mercy So okay. Even if they were annoyed by it. Why did all weapons receive it then and not only sniper rifles? Isn’t it kinda against the argument: “Sniper jumping was nerfed because the devs were annoyed by them”? Since all jump-shooting was nerfed?

@Kingsley “I just call anyone an idiot who has no idea about the game, but if you’re upset, you’re a little snowflake” Maybe you’re just a dick on a high horse?
[spoiler]P.S. I remember that little snowflake named Kingsley who spammed me 50+ disagrees and several flags for disliking several of his comments [/spoiler]

BananaSlug · 2016-02-21 11:43:38 UTC

isnt that only for first 10 games, before you get ranked ?

Jesus2 · 2016-02-21 12:05:28 UTC

[quote=“Jostabeere;151800”]@Mercy So okay. Even if they were annoyed by it. Why did all weapons receive it then and not only sniper rifles? Isn’t it kinda against the argument: “Sniper jumping was nerfed because the devs were annoyed by them”? Since all jump-shooting was nerfed?[/quote] They were annoyed by bunnyhopers too

watsyurdeal · 2016-02-21 16:27:06 UTC

I think it’s obvious everyone here wants a more competitve Dirty Bomb, but that does not mean certain mercs above the nerfing stick.

Sparks was arguably overpowered, long range revives that could put a Rhino for example at full health, she could effectively snipe and kill 120 hp or less mercs at any distance, which is the majority of the mercs in the game. She can even patch herself up, let’s be real, those med packs are SHIT for anyone else, but for her it’s a two pack topoff and bam, she’s ready to go.

Nevermind her low hp, never mind her healing is ass compared to Sawbonez or Aura, she essentially covers two roles, Medic and Sniper. How the hell would you not pick her as a second medic?

And as for Vasilli, headshot insta gibbing as it was before the patch a few months ago, was broken. There was literally no counter for it except to go Vasilli yourself, just to deal with him so your team can push up. And jump sniping as it was, WAS arguably unfair for the victim, and despite what many people say it really was not that hard to pull off at all. Especially since you can zoom in and jump continuously.

Now do I agree with how Splash nerfed these mercs? NO, I don’t actually.

With Sparks, I think if they removed her med packs, and allowed the Revivr to heal allies, it would balance her out. Cause let’s face it, when friendly fire is on many Sparks players just kill allies so they can Revive them. It would put a lot more emphasis on using the Revivr, causing the chances of it over heating to increase and force Sparks players to carefully assess the situations they are in. And remove a bit of her tankinesss which is absolutely unnecessary for a long range merc. Which she is, there is literally no way you can dispute that.

As for Vasilli, just remove the sway, and add an extra step in jump shotting, force people to unscope when jumping, that way they have to scope in while jumping, increasing the effort needed to properly land the shot.

If that’s not enough, then nerf the damage of the MoA a bit or reduce it’s RoF.

I don’t believe the route they took to nerf these respective classes was the right way, and it’s astounding when you consider how they nerfed Fragger. They forced players to be more careful with how they use their frags, I don’t understand how they can’t do the same with other mercs. Increased risk means increased skill floor needed, and therefore increased skill ceiling as well.

Dawnlazy · 2016-02-21 16:37:53 UTC

I’d like a dirty bum that isn’t balanced by increasing RNG in weapons.

Jesus2 · 2016-02-21 17:10:17 UTC

I agre with most of what you said especially that

As of now i dont feel the REVIVR range is a long range thing. It has the damage falloff of an SMG which for me is bullshit for a “long range” merc

Ctrix · 2016-02-21 17:16:37 UTC

I mean your post in true on the factual site. The game really did take a dive around the time Phantom happened, and I’m still waiting for a recovery. But your poll is pointless.

Ideally everyone wants a game with a high skill ceiling that’s still rewarding to play in pug games (as opposed to Counter Strike). Just saying “I want a comp game” or “I want a 360 noscope simulator” are pointless, because they don’t actually give any constructive feedback, and I’d argue your poll options might as well be “Go play CS” and “Co play CoD”. They’re both unhelpful.

Further, the majority of the player base only comes to the forum if there’s something to complain about, so your poll is unrepresentative regardless.

Personally, the only game I’d join a group of guys on the internet for are MMOs. Shooters are supposed to be quick games, and not thinking games. The skill disparity comes with the twitch skill and not the group coordination.
As thus, shooters that aren’t meant solly as competitive are to be balanced around pubs first and foremost. Unless you want to compete with CS, which, we all saw how that went for Insurgency. (What game? Exactly)

watsyurdeal · 2016-02-21 17:33:02 UTC

[quote=“Jesus;151848”]I agre with most of what you said especially that

As of now i dont feel the REVIVR range is a long range thing. It has the damage falloff of an SMG which for me is bullshit for a “long range” merc
[/quote]

Before the nerf she was a long range merc, and honestly still is, her Revivr is a ranged weapon, trying to use it up close is often too much of a gamble.

[quote=“Ctrix;151851”]I mean your post in true on the factual site. The game really did take a dive around the time Phantom happened, and I’m still waiting for a recovery. But your poll is pointless.

Ideally everyone wants a game with a high skill ceiling that’s still rewarding to play in pug games (as opposed to Counter Strike). Just saying “I want a comp game” or “I want a 360 noscope simulator” are pointless, because they don’t actually give any constructive feedback, and I’d argue your poll options might as well be “Go play CS” and “Co play CoD”. They’re both unhelpful.

Further, the majority of the player base only comes to the forum if there’s something to complain about, so your poll is unrepresentative regardless.

Personally, the only game I’d join a group of guys on the internet for are MMOs. Shooters are supposed to be quick games, and not thinking games. The skill disparity comes with the twitch skill and not the group coordination.
As thus, shooters that aren’t meant solly as competitive are to be balanced around pubs first and foremost. Unless you want to compete with CS, which, we all saw how that went for Insurgency. (What game? Exactly)[/quote]

I disagree with balancing around on pubs, because you’re in fact balancing around a lot of stupid players.

People complaining about match making when team work is typically what makes or breaks a game, a match making system just balances on individual performance not the performance of a whole group. It can only estimate.

People complaining about mercs the moment before they are released without having tried them out themselves or given them time to really push what the merc can do or how it can be dealt with.

People complaining that this needs more content…when in fact, we just need to fix what we already have. Like man it’d be great to have a mode that tries to sort people based on a rank into 5v5 teams, the way the game is meant to be played, man that would be OH WAIT.

So no, I don’t believe in balancing for pubs, do that and you get a TF2. A game that’s absolute chaos now with no competitive structure without removing a great portion of the content in the game.

Jesus2 · 2016-02-21 17:44:31 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;151857”][quote=“Jesus;151848”]I agre with most of what you said especially that