What is everyone's opinions on the following? (long winded)

(Andy) #1

I have been playing competitive shooters since UT99 and have a lot of experience with them and would like to share my opinions about a few minor changes that i think would drastically improve/balance the game. I have been playing this game now since closed beta and i don’t contribute to the forums as much as i think i should. But i do come here to read up on what’s going on two or three times a week. Some of you may have come across me playing on the EU servers usually running round as Vassili or Fragger (i know, i know…) and i always seem to be drawn into conversations (arguments) about mercs and my opinions or have to listen to people say the developers have no idea. So i would like not only for people to share their opinions with each other regarding the good and bad aspects of mercs, but also what they would do to correct it and more importantly what they think will be achieved by doing so.

-Thunders Concussion Grenade,

I personally think it needs slightly toning down in regards to it effecting you’re movement. I am all for it effecting vision and hearing but hampering you’re ability to escape or even use movement what so ever needs a rethink. Other than that i think the recent changed made to Thunder are perfect.

-The PDP vs the Fel-ix/MoA

I am personally a fan of all three gun’s and have done a lot of sniping in this game. But i think there should be some bigger advantages/disadvantages that come with using the different guns/merc’s. At the moment there is a huge correlation between Red Eye, Aimee and Vassili. All three armed with a PDP are basically a turret on defence with only minor abilities separating them, causing an influx of PDP spammers. In my opinion each merc should be given a different ability to separate these merc’s further and alter the skill ceiling and ultimately give them more of a competitive/situational edge. Giving Vassili the ability to instagib low hp merc’s was a step in the right direction, he should also be the only merc with the ability to perform scoped in jump shots, but only with bolt action rifles as he is a specialist sniper. I don’t think anything needs to happen with Red Eye as his smoke/IR ability seems to be balanced well in relation to Aimee (but not Vassili). In terms of Aimee i think she is also very well balanced but should be given 450 speed to give her more of a chance of escape with her being a low hp merc, her ability to area denial against low hp mercs and other snipers with the snitch device should not be overlooked

-Sparks

A sore subject for some people but again i think the developers have done a great job on this merc. The only aspect of Sparks that does need to change is the revive gun mechanics. Instead of continuously changing Sparks’s stats a better change would be to change the way the revive gun works… Sparks has 470 speed so is extremely quick which gives players using her a high margin for error despite her having low hp, combine this with the extremely powerful revive gun and you have yourself a very formidable merc. I think a great idea would be to take a leaf out of CSGO’s playbook and have the revive gun 100% accurate only when scoped in and stood perfectly still. This would put an end to the constant A/D strafe peak round walls/corners spamming the revive gun whilst walking onto you’re own stock pile of med packs that we have all come to enjoy facing, while maintaining her ability to be a great and fast medic at any distance who can still get involved in a fight given the players skill is of a semi decent level.

-Aura

Simply put Aura is a perfectly balanced merc. It is when her primary ability comes into play that she can quickly turn a game from a competition to a stomp. The amount of hp recovery given off by the healing station should be different for each merc. It shouldn’t be a part of any game where the defending team can stand next to a healing station and gain such a monumental advantage. In my opinion different rates of regeneration should apply to each individual merc, i will give a few examples and different ideas… A Rhino is hit by a grenade and he is low, he should either have a slower rate of heal from the station OR only heal to 80% of his total hp. Whereas a proxy is low she should have a high rate of hp recovery from the station and be given 90% hp and it should be balanced accordingly. Once this level of heal is achieved the healing station is no longer usable for them for another 5 seconds. This would almost single handedly stop bottlenecks on maps such as the final objective on Chapel and the initial build of the EV on Bridge but still make Auras health station an insanely good tool.

-Stoker, Fragger, Skyhammer, Sawbonez, Proxy, Phoenix, Phantom, Nader, Kira, Bushwacker, Rhino and Arty

All these mercs are again, in my opinion, perfectly balanced. The recent changes to Phantom have worked well, he is no longer a completely invisible tank of a man, but instead can be great for area denial on choke points and infiltrating objectives to open up a gap. A lot of people complain about Rhino but he is only good at one role and again that is area denial and defending objectives. He is a tank yes and combined with an Aura station he is a very difficult frag to make but still doable when you take his weaknesses into account… He is a freebie caught out in the open, he can not dodge grenades or mines and his ability to kill an enemy who is peaking him at distance is low. I am not going to ramble on about the other mercs because as i have said before i think the developers have done a great job balancing them.

I apologise for rambling on and on, but i am tired of seeing people developer bash in game and on reddit and think that a more constructive opinion/fix based discussion is much more beneficial to a games development still in its later stages of Beta.

Thanks.

(PlatinumCLAW) #2

Thunder is fat (like REALLY FAT), if you cant run SHOOT.
No one spams concussion grenades so perfectly to get a reasonable number of kills while the opponent is in effects of concussion (slow movement). So I think he is pretty balanced.

About snipers, i do agree, they must be given different guns.

Sparks nerf ? NO She is already unpopular after her past nerf. Problem with her ? Take her out first and deal with the rest later.

Aura ? Same, take out the station first. Then deal with people.

(kopyright) #3

Oh God, it’s you! I still wake up at night screaming your name in terror. :smiley:

(MisterBadmin) #4

In order:
Thunder
Conc nerf is a nice start, but the bigger thing is the Stark. Both would take Thunder from God Tier to Fragger Tier.

Snipers
The mercs play differently enough. I would like to see PDP nerfs, and differentiation between MOA and FEL-iX. Jump sniping should not be a thing, because there is no way to counterplay. Sniping is about high risk/reward. Walljumping to peek and taking out an enemy offers low risk/high reward.

Sparks
Sparks is in a fine state. She is supposed to be a twitch medic that needs to hit her REVIVR shots, the rest of her kit is for finishing. Making it so that she needs to be standing still (sniper bait) to be able to fight or revive would make her Old Phantom or even Old Thunder Tier.

Aura
Aura is THE defensive medic. Her kit is all about holding ground. Having a percentage healing amount and a cooldown on health received doesn’t make a lot of sense, unless you’re also adding maximum healing percent and a cooldown on receiving health from Sparks packs, Sawbonez bags and Phoenix sneezes (and none of these make sense).

The Rest
I mostly agree.
Phantom is in a better state, but I think he could use another rework. He’s the only Recon without spotting.
Rhino is a little too situational. Every other close range merc (Aura, Proxy, Fletcher, Phantom to a lesser extent [Please don’t play melee Phantom.]) has a way to make engagements close range, or fight at midrange (speed, speed, stickies, pixelblanket).

(Andy) #5

[quote=“MisterBadmin;189109”]In order:
ThunderAura
Aura is THE defensive medic. Her kit is all about holding ground. Having a percentage healing amount and a cooldown on health received doesn’t make a lot of sense, unless you’re also adding maximum healing percent and a cooldown on receiving health from Sparks packs, Sawbonez bags and Phoenix sneezes (and none of these make sense). [/quote]

The reason i suggest to give a cool down to the health station is because it regenerates health continuously as opposed to other health packs, not only that but it gives it to multiple players at any one time. Its all well and good for people saying take out the station first but until you’re 2v1(against constantly healed opponents) trying to destroy the station while they shoot you then its easier said than done. There has to be either a break in its healing or it just becomes imbalanced. As for the jump shooting with the snipers i can see you’re point and its a good one regarding the low risk high reward. The initial idea behind why i said jump shooting should be considered for Vassili on bolt action rifles is due to the spammable nature of the PDP. Most sniper battles in higher level games are against other snipers, in its current state Red Eye can pop smoke and spam a corner preventing a peak if he lines up the angle with only one peak able side (you can not see him). Where as Aimee can lay down the spam enough to hit you if you peak into it and generally any medium plus skill level player will have the snitch device on the corner where he takes most of his dules. This makes Vassili the weakest merc in terms of sniping when he is considered a specialist sniper.

(LifeupOmega) #6

[quote=“Andy;30810”]-Stoker, Fragger, Skyhammer, Sawbonez, Proxy, Phoenix, Phantom, Nader, Kira, Bushwacker, Rhino and Arty

All these mercs are again, in my opinion, perfectly balanced. The recent changes to Phantom have worked well, he is no longer a completely invisible tank of a man, but instead can be great for area denial on choke points and infiltrating objectives to open up a gap. A lot of people complain about Rhino but he is only good at one role and again that is area denial and defending objectives. He is a tank yes and combined with an Aura station he is a very difficult frag to make but still doable when you take his weaknesses into account… He is a freebie caught out in the open, he can not dodge grenades or mines and his ability to kill an enemy who is peaking him at distance is low. I am not going to ramble on about the other mercs because as i have said before i think the developers have done a great job balancing them.[/quote]

I can’t agree that Rhino or Phantom are perfect or even viable. They both have extremely large issues due to design that kills their use at a competitive level, or in Rhino’s case, relegates him to a few select areas in a map due to his lack of flexibility. On top of that his entire design just goes against the fast paced playstyle of Dirty Bomb - adding a spray and pray meatwall makes the game so god damn boring to play at times. I came to this game for the solid gunplay, Rhino throws this out the window.

Phantom is still absolutely useless and will never be used at a competitive level. The cloak nerf in both cooldown and overall health further killed his use as a flanking pick merc, and instead pushes him ever closer to the suicidal melee playstyle pubs favour.

Proxy is never used in competitive either, her ability is bordering on useless when you have Fletcher’s stickies or a turret, the only use being Bridge last where you can bug them inside the objective so the enemy is forced to run close to trigger them, and even that isn’t guaranteed to kill them.

Your Aura idea would kill any use she has as the defensive medic. People would instantly turn to Phoenix, Sawbonez or Sparks and drop Aura altogether. This is a bad idea, straight up. If you can’t shoot the station or spam it out, your team composition is terrible.

(Andy) #7

Oh God, it’s you! I still wake up at night screaming your name in terror. :smiley:
[/quote]

Did we play vs each other ?

(terminal) #8

If people aren’t slowed down by the conc grenade they would just turn around and sprint blindly away. You would probably this wasn’t a big deal, but it was. People were able to dodge Thunder completely and get support fire from their teammates who weren’t blinded so when Thunder did peak to shoot, he was shot down instead. You might’ve noticed I said “was” and that’s because this was the case with the old concussion grenade where it wouldn’t slow down enemy players properly.

(arcaneCanvas) #9

[quote=“Andy;30810”]
-Aura

Simply put Aura is a perfectly balanced merc. It is when her primary ability comes into play that she can quickly turn a game from a competition to a stomp. The amount of hp recovery given off by the healing station should be different for each merc. It shouldn’t be a part of any game where the defending team can stand next to a healing station and gain such a monumental advantage. In my opinion different rates of regeneration should apply to each individual merc, i will give a few examples and different ideas… A Rhino is hit by a grenade and he is low, he should either have a slower rate of heal from the station OR only heal to 80% of his total hp. Whereas a proxy is low she should have a high rate of hp recovery from the station and be given 90% hp and it should be balanced accordingly. Once this level of heal is achieved the healing station is no longer usable for them for another 5 seconds. This would almost single handedly stop bottlenecks on maps such as the final objective on Chapel and the initial build of the EV on Bridge but still make Auras health station an insanely good tool.

Thanks.[/quote]

The amount of hp recovery given off by the healing station should be different for each merc.

this i can agree with slight adjustment

“The hp regen rates given off by the healing station until they are full health should be different for each merc.”

this is preventing the small mercs from tanking while standing on aura healing station and let the tanks do the tank (to increase more roleplays into teamplay)

i disagree with the health only healed until 80-90% because the rest of the mercs can heal people into full health nearly as fast as aura station. Phoenix can Heal 120 hp instantly for the whole team.
(remember, deployables are really weak against fire support merc. its insta destroy medstation and other deployables.)

bottlenecks can easily be knocked by fire support mercs.

but if your suggestion of having aura health station heal nearly as fast as the rates of phoenix (nearly instant like 65/sec, then gets into cool down after healing an amount of health), that would be nice too. but it will considered as a crippling nerf since the enemies can destroy the med station as fast they can do it even before the changes.

sporks

shes fine as she is now. if you make it less innacurate, it would nerf her ability in combat and in reviving because she needs to stay outside of the crossfire to effectively help her team while still able to spam her revivr gun. imagine when you try to revive that one guy in the distance suddenly you missed. there are no reviving mechanics in csgo, better leave it out of DB.

snipors

jumpshotting with vasilli like before? vasilli jumping up and down trying to snap some shots?
im not trying to offend you, but i think youre too heavily influenced by CSGO
(and vasilli bias).

i agree with your argument about snipers needs to be more diverse in terms of abilities and PDP, Aimee is far inferior to vasilli and red eyes despite her ability to kill with more damage. vasilli can do a constant 24/7 area scan with spammable balls while aime snitch is very unsatisfying despite the ability to be flown to unreachable area
(vasilli can hide his spam ball behind a wall or a gutter like in underground which giving him ability to be better than all of the recon class. best Primary, best Secondary. Best ability, best Augment for recon)

red eye become mid-long range recon and his smoke is a practical multitool while aimee cant get too close because shes squishy, and cant go to far because she needs to snipe on chokepoints or big targets like fragger or Thunder that can outshoot her with their burst rifles.

(watsyurdeal) #10

Thunders Concussion Grenade

From the receiving end, incredibly frustrating, but I’m more annoyed with how much health Thunder has to be honest. The Concussion now actually has a drastic effect on things, but why does Thunder need 170 health? Really he could have 150 health, and more speed, and he’d still be just as potent for crowd control. Hell he can even lose the flashbang effect and he’d still be damn good.

Using him, I like that now people are actually affected by these things, but I feel like I am too slow to get into position to ever make use of them.

The PDP vs the Fel-ix/MoA

PDP is easily the more versatile and useful sniper rifle. You can fire it hella fast, making it much faster to kill people than the other two rifles. And even though it can’t insta kill most mercs, it doesn’t matter since anything under the affects of the Snitch takes 25% more damage, which means headshots deal 110 damage. On Red Eye, well, he can spot and shoot people through smoke, it’s hella potent when used right. But you asked for the PDP vs the other Sniper Rifles specifically, so kinda irrelevant.

Sparks

Really annoying to deal with, obviously to counter her ability to revive her whole team with ease you gotta kill her. But good luck cause you can get in close, and she’ll just run away and throw down some packs and be ok, she really doesn’t need those damn things. If those were removed her damage output could be buffed back to where it was before. At least then you can counter her.

Aura

Aura may be balanced on paper, but she’s boring to play, and annoying to counter. She can just sit on her station and tank like hell, and everyone else who’s on it is equally annoying. Plus, you can destroy her station, and she’ll just spawn another one right away. I feel like there needs to be some sort of punishment for deployables that are left alone. Like you suffer a short cooldown if your station is destroyed.

(Equanimity) #11

Thunder’s Concussion Grenade
I don’t mind the slow so much as the flash. Without there being any cook time on the nades his ability to ‘pop flash’ every 17 seconds is really strong. I think removing the flash (or at least lowering duration drastically) and nerfing the maximum slow amount from 99% to 80%, and trading that in for giving him back his EMP (which a lot of people are after) would open up a lot more versatility to him. Keep the concussed visual effect, of course.

The PDP vs the Fel-ix/MoA
The PDP gets a lot of hate, because it is generally easier to use than the Fel-ix or MoA. This however does not mean it is inherently OP by comparison. There is still a lot of control that goes in to using it effectively. What does make it “OP” is it’s synergism with Redeye’s smoke, and this being this case makes it very difficult to balance. There’ll never be a time where the weapon is removed from Redeye, so the only thing I could think of would be something along the lines of implementation of some kind of a very slight damage nerf to it while firing through smoke. Maybe, even, just a general, very slight damage nerf to make it a bit easier to counter. The MoA and Fel-ix can one shot the majority of mercs if a headshot is landed, and the MoA with its very high fire rate particularly is ridiculously strong, practically an auto-sniper in it’s own regard. The Fel-ix I feel is in a pretty decent place despite everyone’s strong preference for the MoA. If the damage on it was increased by just one damage it could 1 shot body shot Sparks/Aura which would make it a somewhat viable option on Vasilli (instead of useless by comparison to MoA as it is seen now). It also would allow for (reliable) 1 shot body shots on Phoenix and 1 shot headshots on Rhino if they are debilitated.

Sparks
I think Sparks is in a really good spot after her recent nerfs. Great players can still do great with her (which should be true for any merc) while she still has a lot of downfalls and is very niche. The only change to her I can think of would be to remove her friendly fire on the revive gun. Why? Because the ranked/comp meta with her is to quick tap your weakened allies to death when they’re low so you can quickly revive them to full once they’re downed. At the very least this change would require her to switch weapons and use ammo in order to pursue the same effect, making this play style far less efficient/exploitable.

Aura
I agree her primaries can make or break her in a pub. Long jumping in to Remburg one shots on players with her quick speed can make her really frustrating to play against. Competitively never really see her without a Blish and that gun I think is in a fine spot. As far as heal amount goes I think somewhat the opposite of yourself. I do think the healing can feel a bit excessive. I also think, however, there shouldn’t be any kind of cap of her ability to full heal allies, and alternatively I think that the heal amount should be static, but instead of directly numerical it should be based on a total health % per second (if it isn’t already) so that it can maintain it’s efficiency for a Rhino (who really relies on having a steady stream of heals) but not be as effective for someone like a Proxy.

Stoker, Fragger, Skyhammer, Sawbonez, Proxy, Phoenix, Phantom, Nader, Kira, Bushwacker, Rhino and Arty
I agree most of these mercs are in a fantastic spot. Even Rhino despite all the hate on him. Stoker can be frustrating to play against because he can turn the tide of a losing 1v1 by just throwing a panic molotov, but his long cooldown and loss of utility during that cooldown balances that out pretty well. Phantom however is NOT in a good spot right now. The EMP addition to his kit gave him a lot of utility, but his overall performance (unless playing against particularly weaker opponents) is lackluster compared to most other mercs. In conjunction with the addition of his EMP effect he received massive nerfs to the defensive and offensive value of his armor. The new 7 second minimum cooldown and the lack of ‘cushion’ health on his armor have decreased his overall combat efficiency drastically. It was not an equivalent exchange for the EMP effect. To exacerbate the problem SD for some reason are trying to push him as a melee merc even though his stealth is the furthest thing from actually stealthy. He sounds like a jumbo jet when you’re within any kind of radius of him, not to mention he is very easy to spot if moving at all. My suggestion would be to revert the cooldown and health change to his armor, remove or change the EMP effect in to it’s own cooldown (maybe adding some kind of spotting or bomb squad effect to it, or converting it in to a ‘hacking’ effect), and based on the removal/efficiency of his EMP/‘hacking’ effect, give him some kind of throwing knife or other quick burst potential (and ranged finish) to make him a highly efficient mid-range skirmish/assassin merc. Oh, and lower the sound range of the damn jumbo jet sound, lol.

(EverythingElse) #12

  1. On the conc grenades
    Totally agree. With the short cool down (i think its like 15-17 seconds) Thunder could easily through the grenade where 1-2 people are and kill them while they cant move or see, especially with the Stark AR as that does a crap load of damage. Maybe players should have a movement increase or more visibility while concussed.

  2. On the PDP and jump shot
    Imo the PDP needs a slight nerf because PDP spammers are just horrifyingly cancerous to my health. It would also be nice to see jump shots back, because that nerf was quite devastating for me and others who play Vassili. I agree with the Aimee buff, maybe she could have a bit more health. But the thing with health is that everyones health is at intervals of 10. Aimee being 100 hp would probably be a bit overpowered, and I dont know if SD would make here health 95 or something like that.
    Just my opinions :smiley:

@Andy

(doxjq) #13

Nerf Sparks again? You’re dreaming mate. She’s supposed to be a fast paced medic on the move, that is kind of her thing. Making her have to scope to revive people and/or shoot people with her reviver gun is total nonsense. That thing zooms quite a bit. If I had to zoom it every time I was up close trying to battle someone, I wouldn’t be able to aim it at all. I can’t even comprehend why you (or anyone tbh) would think another Sparks nerf is needed.

(Supersneaky) #14

The only time i want sparks nerfed is when @Cam is playing her, so op! Lol

(Melinder) #15

:blush: :wink:

http://puu.sh/pwQHW/f5be334f69.jpg

Regarding the actual topic of this thread. I will say that I think Concussion Grenade’s cooldown needs to be 30+ seconds, as being able to continuously concuss the entire enemy team as they come out of spawn is rediculous.

(Herr_Hanz) #16

jumpsniping may be low risk high reward, but its needed. ive been in too many fights where i peek, shoot, go back while cocking the sniper, peek, shoot, go back while cocking the sniper, and rinse and repeat. that happens way too often against other snipers, especially when we both use the moa.

i want jumpsniping back so instead of having to peek the exact same corner and hope the other vassili doesnt headshot me/has slow reaction time, i can jump over my cover, and try to get a shit on him. this way the other vassili cant hardscope the corner and wait for me to peek, as he now has to watch 2 corners and my actions will be more unpredictable.

if you want to compare it to CS:GO you can see it as mirage upper mid vs window. window only has to watch one corner and wait for the guy to peek, but if the guy window misses his shot and the guy upper mid jumps to the boxes its the other way around. now the only thing the guy upper mid has to do is either peek left or right of the boxes and kill the guy window. the guy window doesnt know if the guy upper mid is coming from the left of the boxes, or from the right, or maybe he jumps on the boxes. thats the unpredictability that we can reach when we get jumpshooting back into the game.

(BananaSlug) #17

that change would kill sparks, imagine 80hp merc standing still in this game… yes that merc is dead,

(terminal) #18

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;189119”]Thunders Concussion Grenade

From the receiving end, incredibly frustrating, but I’m more annoyed with how much health Thunder has to be honest. The Concussion now actually has a drastic effect on things, but why does Thunder need 170 health? Really he could have 150 health, and more speed, and he’d still be just as potent for crowd control. Hell he can even lose the flashbang effect and he’d still be damn good.

Using him, I like that now people are actually affected by these things, but I feel like I am too slow to get into position to ever make use of them.

The PDP vs the Fel-ix/MoA

PDP is easily the more versatile and useful sniper rifle. You can fire it hella fast, making it much faster to kill people than the other two rifles. And even though it can’t insta kill most mercs, it doesn’t matter since anything under the affects of the Snitch takes 25% more damage, which means headshots deal 110 damage. On Red Eye, well, he can spot and shoot people through smoke, it’s hella potent when used right. But you asked for the PDP vs the other Sniper Rifles specifically, so kinda irrelevant.

Sparks

Really annoying to deal with, obviously to counter her ability to revive her whole team with ease you gotta kill her. But good luck cause you can get in close, and she’ll just run away and throw down some packs and be ok, she really doesn’t need those damn things. If those were removed her damage output could be buffed back to where it was before. At least then you can counter her.

Aura

Aura may be balanced on paper, but she’s boring to play, and annoying to counter. She can just sit on her station and tank like hell, and everyone else who’s on it is equally annoying. Plus, you can destroy her station, and she’ll just spawn another one right away. I feel like there needs to be some sort of punishment for deployables that are left alone. Like you suffer a short cooldown if your station is destroyed.

[/quote]
Weren’t people just complaining a few months ago about how low Thunder’s health was at 160

(MisterBadmin) #19

[quote=“terminal;189302”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;189119”]Thunders Concussion Grenade

From the receiving end, incredibly frustrating, but I’m more annoyed with how much health Thunder has to be honest. The Concussion now actually has a drastic effect on things, but why does Thunder need 170 health? Really he could have 150 health, and more speed, and he’d still be just as potent for crowd control. Hell he can even lose the flashbang effect and he’d still be damn good.

Using him, I like that now people are actually affected by these things, but I feel like I am too slow to get into position to ever make use of them.

The PDP vs the Fel-ix/MoA

PDP is easily the more versatile and useful sniper rifle. You can fire it hella fast, making it much faster to kill people than the other two rifles. And even though it can’t insta kill most mercs, it doesn’t matter since anything under the affects of the Snitch takes 25% more damage, which means headshots deal 110 damage. On Red Eye, well, he can spot and shoot people through smoke, it’s hella potent when used right. But you asked for the PDP vs the other Sniper Rifles specifically, so kinda irrelevant.

Sparks

Really annoying to deal with, obviously to counter her ability to revive her whole team with ease you gotta kill her. But good luck cause you can get in close, and she’ll just run away and throw down some packs and be ok, she really doesn’t need those damn things. If those were removed her damage output could be buffed back to where it was before. At least then you can counter her.

Aura

Aura may be balanced on paper, but she’s boring to play, and annoying to counter. She can just sit on her station and tank like hell, and everyone else who’s on it is equally annoying. Plus, you can destroy her station, and she’ll just spawn another one right away. I feel like there needs to be some sort of punishment for deployables that are left alone. Like you suffer a short cooldown if your station is destroyed.

[/quote]
Weren’t people just complaining a few months ago about how low Thunder’s health was at 160
[/quote]

People were complaining about his health because he had no other way to win or escape firefights. His conc was next to useless and the 10 health over old Fragger let him eat a grand total of one (two for MPs and Hochfir) more bullet.
With 30 HP over Fragger, a useful conc, and untouched speed, Thunder became a force to be reckoned with. People have an innate instinct to want to call bullshit on things that seem too easy (thus the constant complaints of pancakes and pizza deliveries). That instinct means they want things nerfed into the ground.

I don’t actually disagree in Thunder’s case. 2.5 seconds minimum and 6 seconds maximum is absolutely crazy in a twitch FPS. I’d like to see it be 0.5 and 4 respectively, with a larger radius, similar to how Fletcher got nerfed. (This reduces the effectiveness at all ranges, making the Conc more of a single-target/stacked-idiots initiation that will disrupt nearby enemies for a bit, but still gives them time to respond to Thunder.)
I’d also like to see cooking on them, with a higher fuse time (4 seconds?). (This limits the utility of the conc, because then lobbing a conc and waddling away can’t happen. It also changes his initiation to require some form of planning, much like Fragger.)
And let us not forget that the Stark is pure cancer. (I don’t have any idea how to nerf it without making it unusable, and clearly SD aren’t comfortable with anything they’ve come up with, or it would have been in the patch.)

(kopyright) #20

Oh God, it’s you! I still wake up at night screaming your name in terror. :smiley:
[/quote]

Did we play vs each other ?[/quote]

Yes. Unless there is another uncannily skilled sniper with the same name.