What do you think about Rambo Medics ?

(cb) #21

right on.
medics get tired of chasing after ppl trying to heal them.
and dont call a medic and tap out leaving me under fire for no reason. at least wait until you have less than 5 seconds till respawn before tapping out. no reason to tap out with 20 secs to go…

(Borsuk) #22

…what about literally taking FIRE ? Any good flamethrower soldier will tell you that Medic is at least twice as resistant to Flamethrower as Soldier, Field Op, Covert Op, or Engineer. For instance I just played game on Gold Rush. Firing Mortar at Old City Wall gave me lvl3 Heavy at first map, so I was quite fast. I encountered a medic near that tower next to first tank barrier. I set him on fire, he brought me down to about 50 life. Then he jumped to the other side of the tower. single sound of medpack being picked up. I predicted his movement and caught him like 2 seconds later. He received good burst from flamethrower at close range, and killed me. He instantly ate 2 medpacks and survived.

I see NO REASON why medics should own soldiers with flamethrower at CLOSE RANGE. Lone flamethrower ? Send in medic. And no, grenades don’t REALLY work against smart players with lvl3 heavy.

(personal) #23

being a medic quite often myself, i find that depending on the game i level up in light weapons OR medic skills and very rarely in both.
that is, if i am on a server that teammates ignore me and i have to run behind them around the map with med packs, i say the hell with it and i go rambo style. On the contrary if i am on a server that teammates depend on me i hardly go out to kill. Very rarely i am on a game that i can do both quite well :wink:
On another note i think ppl get pissed off with rambo medics because of ego :slight_smile:
u get killed by a panzer, flamer, mine, mortar, mg, whatever, u say to your yourself “ok, there was little if any i could do, so move on”
but if u get killed face to face by someone its kinda of a vendetta thing, u HAVE to go back and this time round kill him.
if u keep trying and get a kill out of ten, ok, there goes our ego trip :slight_smile:
maybe a limit on the max ammo a medic carries could be worth trying, lets say
start 1 clip
lvl1 2 clips
lvl2 2 clips + the ability to pick up one more clip
and thats it
my 2 euro cents

(Whatever) #24

I think this is an excellent analysis of the problem. Although I like the idea of limiting ammo for a medic to reduce their overall effectiveness in combat, I don’t really think it is an issue. How many gun fights require you to empty more than 2 clips? And as Pamper rightly said, medics will retreat after a kill to heal, reload, and even get more ammo if needed.

I think the biggest problem is that medics have the most health of any class. This is why they are 1 on 1 killing machines. I know the reasoning behind this was to make it so medics can survive at the front lines and heal/revive people but I think that it is a mistake to give medics high hitpoints.

I think that medics should have the lowest hitpoints, but have their bonuses going into their sprint and stamina. It would be more useful if when a medic leveled up they could run faster and for longer. It would also be consistent with the lvl 4 Adrenelin. This way, you could heal, be as effective as any other class in large battles, and have the ability to run away to heal yourself as needed with improved stamina. This would dampen the ability to be a 1 on 1 killer by making it a non-guaranteed outcome of victory, and increase the usefullness of medics in the battle.

Some controversial stuff, but let me know what you think.

[FUVU]Whatever

(Wraith2k3) #25

I would have thought soldiers would have the most HP, considering they’re supposed to be big tough heavy weapon using troopers.

(SCDS_reyalP) #26

It’s very, very useful. That’s not necessarily bad (medics are cool), but feeding yourself is what can turn Rambo-medics into such light-weapons dominators. That, and their bonus health (the regeneration doesn’t matter much at all, and is only there to encourage medics to share packs with teammates, instead of eating them all)

[/quote]
Right, all I was saying is that putting a delay before you could pick up your own pack wouldn’t solve the medics being harder to kill 1v1 problem. if that is a problem (I’m not conviced it is) the thing to gimp would be their health bonus and/or regeneration. I suppose you could make it so medics couldn’t heal themselves at all, but IMO, that would completely cripple the class (because after a fire fight, your medic would be really weak for quite a while.)

Borsuk:
The flamethrower has always been weak. That’s why pretty much no one uses it, except in very specific choke points, usually with a medic and LT for backup. A good SMG gunner of any class has a pretty good chance of killing a flamer 1v1 (assuming the flamer doesn’t have a good corner position where they can start flaming before they can be shot). However, most non medics will burn to death aftwards :stuck_out_tongue:

(amazinglarry) #27

I didn’t bother to read everything because I don’t have 3 hours… but to be honest if they took away the medic regeneration completely I wouldn’t have a problem with it, because I think it’s a joke anyways.

But yea, blah blah blah a new medic too powerful thread… :blah:

(Borsuk) #28

I think it would be fair tradeoff:

Medics wouldn’t be able to pick up own medpacks AT ALL, but their regeneration rate would be doubled or trippled.

“flamethrower has always been weak” is pretty dumb argumentation. Lets remove panzefaust movement penalty, because “rocket launcher never slowed you down in previous games”.

Removing regeneration would SOLVE NOTHING, it would even encourage medics to eat their medpacks instead of giving them to teammates.

One day ET might end up with all teams consisting of 1 Field Op, 2 engies and 5 and more medics. Pretty good chance, considering that top exp players on pubs are usually medics or field ops.

(RocketGrrl [SWE]) #29

Should medics be able to pick up other medics medpacks but not their own? Perhaps not even that? What is going to stop them from teaming up in pairs and use the TK/revive exploit, especially when the have full revive skill. Instead of one you will meet two “rambos”.

The team composition you describe above has, in my mind, always been a good choice for the attacking team, especially when an objective has to be moved from A to B.

Finally, I gather that you like to be a flamie, do you really think it is a good idea for a flamie to be involved in a 1v1 fight? Do you, for example, think they won a lot of those fights In Real Life? You are supposed to give support to you teammates which means you should cooperate with them.

(SCDS_reyalP) #30

Panzerfaust kills medics dead. :moo:
TBH, I see more soldiers and covops than meds on most pubs.

(senator) #31

Why do you keep bitching about the medic, sure he’s hard to kill but to compensate he’s the player with the weakest firepower! A medic can’t shoot PF, MG-42 Mortar or Flamer, all deadly if used correctly, a Medic cant call in Airstrikes or Arty-fire to take out many enemy player at once, a Medic cant shoot the little-mans-panzerfaust: rifle grenades. A Medic has to rely on his trusted SMG and Pistol.

And reducing a medics health? True, it’s annoying if a medic goes Rambo and has more health than his enemy but if he’s actually doing his job he needs all this energy! If a teammate lies dead on the battlefield chances are good that it’s dangerous were he’s lying because otherwise he wouldn’t be dead :wink: So a medic sprinting forward to revive the fallen one will usually come under fire and often just barely make it back to safety (or joins his dead comrade :frowning: ). Take away their health bonus and far less medics would go on kamikaze runs to safe your fricking ass!

By the way, one of the reason why medics often play rambo is because of the tap-out bug there’s often not that much to do for them, I really hope that SD is going to fix ist (or comment on whether this is intentional)

(kvilli) #32

I have noticed the same thing. I usually play as a medic, but when I want to have some variation and play some other class, there’s always a lack of (good) medics…

(Incognito) #33

imho, medics should stay the way they are. On public servers I find that field ops. give next to no ammo to medics more often than not. And it isn’t ‘that’ easy to just grab an smg as a medic.

It is only on very rare occassions that I have all the ammo I need (all the ammo I can carry :D) and when I do, I still don’t last that long because I get killed reviving or healing teammates.

Right now, I think all classes should stay the way they are.

Incog.

(Borsuk) #34

Why do you keep bitching about the medic, sure he’s hard to kill but to compensate he’s the player with the weakest firepower! A medic can’t shoot PF, MG-42 Mortar or Flamer

  1. He can score headshots just as anybody else. You can’t go everywhere with panzerfaust, Mg (no moving at all, in fact), or flamer (basically every open area). You can go everywhere with SMG. If Soldier with heavy weapon is taken by suprise, he’s dead. SMG’s are immune to suprise attacks.

According to your definition, Covert Op has the weakest firepower, strict combat class (certainly more combat oriented than medic or engy). Neither Sten or FG42 makes good close range weapon, and usefulness of sniper rifles is arguable, especially with broken hitboxes (headshots are harder than they appear). Don’t tell me you own people wit Satchel.

, all deadly if used correctly,

Not, not all. Medic can easily survive being suprised by Flamethrower. Let’s see. Level3 battle sense medic + level2 first aid, that’s about 150 life initially, 15 percent of power per medpack means you can create 7 of them, and NOT COUNTING power bar regeneration. So Medic can have 150 + 7*20 = 290 life when it comes to facing flamethrower. With power regeneration it’s easily over 300. Only thing that can save Flamethrower Soldier from dying is Level4 heavy to finish the job.
a Medic cant call in Airstrikes or Arty-fire to take out many enemy player at once, a Medic cant shoot the little-mans-panzerfaust: rifle grenades. A Medic has to rely on his trusted SMG and Pistol.

:frowning: ). Take away their health bonus and far less medics would go on kamikaze runs to safe your fricking ass!

They won’t do that anyway. I either play medic or don’t get revived at all (Well sometimes I see medic with green syringe and he actually helps, but it’s rare on pubs).
There’s no need for kamikaze runs if you can kill enemy first. what is often the case.

I see more soldiers and covert ops on pubs
I see more newbies than good players. It is very often to see soldiers with SMG, and not because their Heavy Weapons is at 4. Newbies think soldier is just tougher than others, but he isn’t.


Should medics be able to pick up other medics medpacks but not their own? Perhaps not even that? What is going to stop them from teaming up in pairs and use the TK/revive exploit, especially when the have full revive skill. Instead of one you will meet two “rambos”.

No problem at all. Feeding someone with medpacks is risky job, takes more time than medic healing himself. You can’t heal somebody as effectively as yourself. At the moment 2 rambo medic team getting hurt badly (cover is near) can even spread and heal on their own. They are totally independant, in the case you described they would be dependant on each other.


Finally, I gather that you like to be a flamie, do you really think it is a good idea for a flamie to be involved in a 1v1 fight? Do you, for example, think they won a lot of those fights In Real Life?

Flamethrowers have always been great for bunker fights. And by the way, tank-mounted flamethrowers had range of 40 and more meters.

(senator) #35

come on, you are seriously saying that a SMG owns PF ??? So SMG Soldiers are a better choice than going PF ??? :eek2:

According to your definition, Covert Op has the weakest firepower, strict combat class (certainly more combat oriented than medic or engy). Neither Sten or FG42 makes good close range weapon, and usefulness of sniper rifles is arguable, especially with broken hitboxes (headshots are harder than they appear). Don’t tell me you own people wit Satchel.

Garand/K43 scoped, Headshot without helmet = instant kill (with helmet 100HP). Disguised CovOps who shoots from behind: pretty deadly. Whoever plays CovOps just like a soldier hasn’t understud the class.

, all deadly if used correctly,

Not, not all. Medic can easily survive being suprised by Flamethrower. Let’s see. Level3 battle sense medic + level2 first aid, that’s about 150 life initially, 15 percent of power per medpack means you can create 7 of them, and NOT COUNTING power bar regeneration. So Medic can have 150 + 7*20 = 290 life when it comes to facing flamethrower. With power regeneration it’s easily over 300. Only thing that can save Flamethrower Soldier from dying is Level4 heavy to finish the job.
a Medic cant call in Airstrikes or Arty-fire to take out many enemy player at once, a Medic cant shoot the little-mans-panzerfaust: rifle grenades. A Medic has to rely on his trusted SMG and Pistol.

First, your HP calculation is rediculous, the medic has max. 150HP, if he stands in your fire bursts while tossing out healthpackt to regain health the burning will reduce his health faster than he can regenerate.
And as I said, FT need a good player to master the class, you have to abmush and you have to chase your prey until it’s dead. While beeing cooked the attacked player it mostly blind and can’t shoot at the FT (only in the general direction and hope to score some hits). Most FT soldiers are killed from a distance, so if you stand behind a corner, cook the medic and let him run away you deserve to be killed once he returns. You have to finish the job immediately or quickly run away to find another ambush spot. Most FT I’ve encoutered so far have their abush position and will stay there . Well, as soon as I know were they are I prime a grenade and send the FT sky high :slight_smile:

:frowning: ). Take away their health bonus and far less medics would go on kamikaze runs to safe your fricking ass!

They won’t do that anyway. I either play medic or don’t get revived at all (Well sometimes I see medic with green syringe and he actually helps, but it’s rare on pubs).
There’s no need for kamikaze runs if you can kill enemy first. what is often the case.

You should play with some good players than, good medics will risk their own ass to safe yours!

(amazinglarry) #36

Medics “eat their own medpacks” anyways. I’ll continue to do so as well. And for christ sake, Medics are fine the way they are.

Or actually wait… we should only give Medics a pistol… because they’re WAY too powerful with an SMG. And well if they have even a pistol, they can probably still kill everybody in a server… so let’s drop the pistol ammo down to just ONE clip, that way they can’t kill everybody.

But we’ll give then unlimited health packs! Yeah! Only they can’t pick it up themselves…

But let’s see, if we’re going to do that, we should take away their sprint ability!.. but we’ll make regeneration 2x faster!

But they have too much health anyways… so lets cut the med’s health down to 25! There… all better… now medics are completely balanced with every class. See, now wasn’t that easy?

(Sick Boy) #37

Cool idea for a new map, the flamethrower tank! :clap:

on topic: yeah maybe 30+90 max ammo instead of 30+120 would be fair.

(Ragnar_40k) #38

Yeah. I think everybody encoutered medics, that hang around the ammo/health shelves (esp. on Fueldump and Gold Rush) and kill every enemy in sight - followed by a dash to the health shelf. Sometimes you even meet 2 or 3 of them at same shelf. And when you check theirs stats at the end of the round they usually have level 4 in “Battle Sense” and “Light Weapons” and level 1 in “First Aid” (sometimes a teammates accidently picks up a med pack).

(WT) #39

Wow, what servers do you guys make the mistake of playing on ? I love playing medic lately but my fave class since playing the ET:test has been Engy. I tried medic and I ALWAYS reach level 4 but rarely get level 4 LW. That is the sign of a medic who is doing their job; medic !!
The thread is about Rambo Medics and I take that to mean a medic that goes into firefights to heal, not to shoot it up with the enemy. I choose based on the map and my team what class I should be.
A good medic can contribute GREATLY on Goldrush on both Allied AND Axis sides. In fact, if I am NOT playing as one, I usually hang around with one (as an FOp or Engy) since they are so invaluable.

(Borsuk) #40

come on, you are seriously saying that a SMG owns PF ??? So SMG Soldiers are a better choice than going PF ??? :eek2:

  1. Depending on map, you can be easily suprised and not able to shoot back. For instance Gold Rush isn’t that great map for Panzerfaust, especially carried by alied soldier. So many places you can be shot from…
  2. If not suprised, you won’t kill 2 single medics in a row. Just because pistol is not that great. Unless you got something to watch your back, but that’s not the point… With SMG and some skills and luck you certainly CAN kill 2 enemies in a row.

Garand/K43 scoped, Headshot without helmet = instant kill (with helmet 100HP).

Yes I know, but it’s rather hard to use sniper rifle in every place, on offense etc.

Disguised CovOps who shoots from behind: pretty deadly. Whoever plays CovOps just like a soldier hasn’t understud the class.

It’s very tricky part. You are never guaranteed to suprise enemy - you may meet the guy you took uniform from, teammates may recognize that “Lazlo-with-20-inch-long-dick” was just shouting "enemy in disguise etc etc… Disguise is not reliable, you are never sure if it’ll work. If it fails (and that happens fairly often against good players) you are left with your sten, k43 or fg42. For me most valuable ability of Covop is passing thru team doors, detecting mines, ability to quickly destroy some objectives and smoke grenades. I can always count on those.

First, your HP calculation is rediculous, the medic has max. 150HP, if he stands in your fire bursts while tossing out healthpackt to regain health the burning will reduce his health faster than he can regenerate.

All he needs is to get out of your range AND survive. Other classes could leave your range, too, but wouldn’t be able to run more than several steps. It happens pretty often, for instance Flamthrower soldier guarding west bunker would kill anyone else, but medic will simply jump back. So it’s not ridiculous.

And as I said, FT need a good player to master the class, you have to abmush and you have to chase your prey until it’s dead.

Then obviously I’m not good player, because I run into my own flames each time I chase someone with Flamethrower. Not to mention speed reduction. I generally don’t chase unless I can predict their movement and benefit from that. Even Lvl3 soldier is slowed when firing flamethrower. It’s just not a weapon suitable for chasing. Level4 soldiers don’t grow on trees, you know, senator-richard.

While beeing cooked the attacked player it mostly blind and can’t shoot at the FT (only in the general direction and hope to score some hits). Most FT soldiers are killed from a distance, so if you stand behind a corner, cook the medic and let him run away you deserve to be killed once he returns.

(about running away)
Many places don’t offer you such comfort. He can as well run away and try secondary route, and it ruins your efforts. He should be dead :/.
However I learned hard way to be quite mobile with FT, and generally I am the one to throw grenades. Scaring people away with FT allows me to switch to grenades and make nasty suprise. Then of course back to FT.
Sieging bank campers with FT and grenades is great fun :-).

Most FT I’ve encoutered so far have their abush position and will stay there . Well, as soon as I know were they are I prime a grenade and send the FT sky high :slight_smile:

Your skills must be pretty mad if you can send FT sky high without caring about ceiling and such. FT’s like creepy dark places. :wink:

To others: whole point of rambo medics is that they have mostly nothing to care about. All other classes have to care about health. If you meet enemy 1 on 1 in open area, both of you with similar aim and no chance to suprise - non-medic class can win, but is going to gain several new holes. After taking heavy fire, you are pretty much doomed to be killed by next enemy. You have to find nice ambush spot, retreat to health cabinets or pray and search for medic. What benefit does your team have if you die as often as kill ?

Medic is the only one who can take heavy hits without any consequences. Medics can be therefore MUCH more aggressive than anybody else. You’d suspect that class with such great health adventage has problems with ammo - nope.

But honestly, I think SD will do nothing about it. They are the same people who designed Flametrooper and Sniper classes in Quake 3 Fortress, after all. I wasn’t impressed.