What about false accusations and false reporting?

(chicHouse) #1

Can they do harm?
I had some nice k/d score over 100+ stopwatch some of the noobs started to complain hacks cheats and so on leaving messages in chat like im gonna report u, reported etc.

my concern is, for example lets say in every match there is at least one player who will report better players and in matches with realy salty players one good player can get more reports from the noobs.

can this do some harm? how devs review this reports? what if one will be banned for realy no reason based on more false reports?

#2

No. I assume support has special tools to determine if somebody is cheating or not.
They don’t ban you just because the whole server reported you.

(Amerika) #3

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If false accusations got people banned then a number of people on this forum would have already been banned. There is a lot of information for them to dig into to figure out if somebody is cheating or not.

(chicHouse) #4

thanks guys

(doxjq) #5

Tbh I’d really like to know what process takes place when a report comes in. Do they just watch a video of the game and decide for themselves whether or not someone is hacking, or is there some kind of back end data or something they look at?

I’m skeptical as to whether or not the anti-cheat even exists. As I’ve said in the past, I know a guy who was using an aimbot in Dirty Bomb for 3-4 months with very minimal settings. 3-4 FOV, aim smoothing turned to max, a slight delay set to all shots etc, it looked totally human and even made errors from time to time.

Despite the reports against him and the fact that he was actually hacking (I saw this in real life with my own eyes, I’m not making assumptions here) he was never banned, so I can only assume they make some kind wild guess and give people the benefit of the doubt unless it’s a blatant aimbot running around on maximum settings racking up 150 kills.

(Amerika) #6

[quote=“Dox;197155”]Tbh I’d really like to know what process takes place when a report comes in. Do they just watch a video of the game and decide for themselves whether or not someone is hacking, or is there some kind of back end data or something they look at?

I’m skeptical as to whether or not the anti-cheat even exists. As I’ve said in the past, I know a guy who was using an aimbot in Dirty Bomb for 3-4 months with very minimal settings. 3-4 FOV, aim smoothing turned to max, a slight delay set to all shots etc, it looked totally human and even made errors from time to time.

Despite the reports against him and the fact that he was actually hacking (I saw this in real life with my own eyes, I’m not making assumptions here) he was never banned, so I can only assume they make some kind wild guess and give people the benefit of the doubt unless it’s a blatant aimbot running around on maximum settings racking up 150 kills. [/quote]

What you describe has been a method of cheating that is in virtually every single game. Use a private cheat that can’t be detected because it or it’s parts have never been released so there isn’t a hash available and isn’t using a common sandbox program that are also typically banned. You dial it back to be very human-like in how it works. So this fools most people spectating and it fools any statistical analysis tool. You then have to rely on mistakes or patterns that commonly occur. But even those can be randomized if the person knows what they are doing. They can be caught, but it definitely takes more time.

Virtually the only way to detect them is to use a VERY invasive anti-cheat system that constantly scans your system for anything connected (even network connections) or applications that would try to block this then report back to the people who are in charge of the AC. This is how ESEA works and why it’s done so well. However, you have to give them rights to have access to your entire system which allows them to do things like this…which is why no company would ever use an anti-cheat system like it.

So you either have to keep most of your privacy and deal with some cheaters or give up rights to privacy and give a 3rd party access to your whole PC. Which not only opens you up to scandal by them but by anybody who could potentially break into their security and THEN install what they want on your PC. Oh, and there are a lot of privacy laws all across the world which would make that type of AC a nightmare for companies.

This is partly why cheaters still exist in virtually every single online game. It’s pretty much impossible to stop at all levels. All you can do is contain the most outrageous offenders. Which sucks but the world is what it is.

(doxjq) #7

Interesting. Nice read there. I do know the aimbot he was using though he did say it was 3 years old and originally made for CS GO, but I do believe it was paid for, not a free one.

The moral of the story though is like you say, just because someone doesn’t get banned, doesn’t mean they are clean. I do get sick of people who claim certain hackers “must be legit” because they’re still not banned despite being reported many times.

(blonk) #8

Sometimes you’ll see “DemoRecSpectator” joining a server while you’re playing on it, I’d always assumed it was something to do with support. I have no clue if there is any intelligence in what servers get recorded but it would make sense that support could use the demos taken as part of an investigation into reported players

(B_Montiel) #9

They obviously can’t watch every single game to inspect reported players :stuck_out_tongue:
UE3 is not able to do that from scratch btw, since the famous demorecspectator tool which has been binned since almost a year. And the server side view is way too messy to give an accurate view of what actually happened. Either way, stats would be more accurate than any videos if you choose and use them adequately.

What I’d really like to know, is how they are able to detect cheats without the program/injector checker. Just yesterday, I played against a cheater on ranked twice, he was turning cheat on fairly obviously during limited time sequences : he was playing like a potatoe, cheat off 90% of the time, and turned it on when the team needed it… At the end, he only had an average accuracy of 30,5%… Currently, I really wonder if they’re capable to detect adequately, in an accurate enough fashion. That guy would easily be forgotten by the patrol because his main stats were just in the middle of everyone on the server.

And no, repeated hackusations won’t harm you in any way.

(jokingShale) #10

Tbh this is the exact sort of thing which should not be revealed, because that would make getting around it easier.

(doxjq) #11

Yeah it was kind of rhetorical. I know they’d never tell us and there’s a good reason for that.

(AlphaUT) #12

I would actually want to know how many people had already reported me, because I believe that would be an interesting number like 20+

(AlphaUT) #13

And I can laugh again

(B_Montiel) #14

DemoRecSpectator was originally branded as a future recording tool for players. Obviously there’s still this bot shadowing here and there.

(pumpaloaf) #15

I’ve seen screenshots of the ui menus for some these cheats. It’s crazy how many settings there are that allow them to be random and more human-like. I have to hand it to these turds, they’ve practically thought of everything. I always hear people say “I haven’t seen an aimbot in months, no ones hacking, get good, etc, etc.” But i feel like they just haven’t seen a blatant aimbot in months.

I see tons of suspicious/questionble players in game and sure enough, when I check their steam profile the same red flags pop up; profiles are not set up, profile is set to private, They have 4000 hours in games like dota, 1000+ hours in the Binding of Issac and misc other f2p games but little to no other fps experience. The majority of DB public players don’t seem to bat an eye at them, I suppose it’s because they are careful to not go full head shot death machine, usually hover mid scoreboard and just toggle off and on as needed. The pros don’t usually bat an eye either because they can often out aim and beat the pants off of the subtle cheaters anyway.

Between these sneaky cheats and with smurf accounts (I wish players wouldn’t do that) I can never be 100% sure anymore. While I’m sure that I make some wrongful reports from time to time, I just report the really fishy ones and hope that the powers that be will sort it out.

While on the topic of aimbots and before this thread gets closed (they always do), maybe someone (@Amerika) can answer a few questions about how these vile cheats work?

I’m curious as to how things work like:

-Do projectiles like Nader’s nades & Fletcher’s stickies work with an aimbots? (As in can they get direct hits?)

-And as I understand it, a triggerbot auto fires when a target is in sight (or range?) Can that be set up to work with a melee weapon as well? (As in insta-whack when in range.)

-Can cheaters see through Phantom’s cloak when he’s motionless? With a wallhack I assume he’s visible like everyone else even when cloaked?

-Can an aimbot/trigger bot be set up to only target certain players?

-Can cheaters using the same cheats see other cheaters?

(ClemClem7) #16

I personally don’t care about low settings hacks because if they are bad, it’ll just make them at a mid level, and then it’s just a mid level player. I prefer fighting against good players because I can learn faster than when I just shoot noobs in a fucking shooting range.
And I see more players who are clean, but way better than low settings hackers.

The only hackers who get me mad are the blatant ones. Because they break the game.
But as there are many good players, a low hack isn’t a mess. It’s not fair but it’s life. Life isn’t fair.

And DB isn’t a game where you can only rely on aim to overplay a enemy (like Csgo, where you can almost only kill someone with a line of sight). You can use your technical skill to kill players, like abilities and knowledge of the map.

(doxjq) #17

It depends on the skill of the player as to how well the aimbot will work though. Give an average player an aimbot on low/minimal settings and they won’t do much better with it, but give it to a very experienced player with good aim (like Amerika for instance) and they will literally turn into a god.

PS: In reference to projectiles @Pumpaloaf I have seen an aimbot on youtube for Quake Live that was made to predict projectiles that travel in a straight line any way. I’m not sure about grenades or anything that take an arc. I’m not sure how it worked but it had a diamond on screen that showed the perfect trajectory path and it would move accordingly with the player. So basically there was just a diamond that sat in front of each player by 2-3-4-5 metres depending on how far away you were etc and it would automatically aim at that spot, or even worse, you could turn the autoaim off and just aim for those spots yourself which made for some godlike rockets. Of course if the player changed direction though, it was completely useless, but still, it was insane for midair shots where people couldn’t change route. So yeah, there are aimbots made for some projectiles at least.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #18

#freetoplayproblems

Hopefully Valve can figure out a better way to prevent cheaters from making new Steam accounts.

(B_Montiel) #19

1 : They absolutely can, but since those are not hitscan weapons (hitscan mean there’s no actual projectile coming out of the weapon, you’ll hit when you fire, simplification due to the bullet speed being high enough to consider the bullet travel instant in a video game), the cheat will have to calculate the trajectory in the first place. So the cheat would need to be quite elaborate, and it’d only calculate the most probable position considering the direction/vector the targeted character is moving at the time. I remember seeing a tribes ascend’s dev, for testing purposes while developing the IA, who actually forked the aiming behaviour into a cheat which was awefully effective, even with spinfusors and grenade launchers…

2 : Yes

3 : They don’t even dare about it. When you have big red squares surrounding enemies, you don’t really care about them being cloaked or not.

4 : Yes

5 : Pointless so I guess the cheat developer won’t take time to do this

In a nutshell, as long as you have imagination, and the required parameters (you always have in a video game), it’s possible. The required work could be immense, but it’s always possible. Hence the difficulty of building an efficient anti-cheat. Possibilities are infinite, and there are tons of methods to get to the same result.

(BananaSlug) #20

[quote=“pumpkinmeerkat;197275”]#freetoplayproblems

Hopefully Valve can figure out a better way to prevent cheaters from making new Steam accounts.[/quote]

do it like in south Korea, every person has his “number” that is connected to your real life “profile”, you cant make more that one account per person :smiley: