Weapon tweaks for devs

(Bull_dawg) #1

Great game, runs very well on a mini and iphone5. Read few suggestions on the board for the game like lowering costs for melee weaps/increasing damage and I have a question for devs… IMO, those weapons never get used right now because of the points that have been brought up by other people so i’m not gonna beat a dead horse…

I got the big boy bundle, and my question is about the HMG which comes with it. HMG shows as doing 84 damage for 7 squad points and 6ap to use… When playing it, the shortcomings of the weapon become apparent as the range of it is 1 square shorter then LMG, at 5 and damage is 56, 64, 64, 80 and 104… Comparing it to the LMG at 6 squad points with range of 6 it does 56 damage until 2 squares away at 52 and 36 at 1 square.

I’ve been trying to use it but at 7 squad points I find that it’s not practical. End up with one less toon in games. One toon with 7SP, capt at 4 or 5 and another at 6 in a 20 point game vs 4 toons at 5 or 2x5, capt at 4 and one toon at 6… Three toons vs 4 will always lose unless playing a new player… For 26 pt game, going with 4 toons vs 5…

The same goes for the HSR… I love the .50 and have great memories of it from my deployment and that’s why I bought it in game… But as with HMG. At 7 squad points and doing only 86 damage at distance for 8 AP it’s very impractical and I don’t see a point in using it… I can do more damage with Juan or Pete with the SR for 6AP. Those two can get 3 and 2 shots off for 69 damage and still move 1 square. Juan can get 2 shots off with HSR at distance, for 172 but it can get 3shots x69 with SR for 207,

So would it be possible to make HMG and HSR more player friendly? It would give the game more variety and encourage players to use these weapons, either make those weaps 6 squad points or leave them at 7 but increase the range? It might work for HSR with 9 square distance and/or increased damage and lower AP needed to use it…

Hope to see some changes with these weapons as well as with melee to make these weapons more competitive and add variety to this great game…
Thanks!

(Sandman77) #2

Some weapons need changes I agree. Also the fact that for instant Medics can barely use a decent weapon also Engineers. Pete who is a Soldier cant use a sniper rifle/Shotgun?!? But one does allow 2 - 5 Juans, odd.

(tinker) #3

your english makes no sense here, sry :confused:

Pete is an AGENT --> sniper rifles.
Medics are there to heal, not to make damage. Medics with sniper rifles or shotguns would be overpowered due to healing AND massive dmg dealing.
Engis have Shotguns that deal the MOST damage in the game - Sure, at a low range, they are like melee weapons but way stronger !!
you come to the conclusion that the game has different typed of “soldiers”

Soldier / commando class + commander —> best in mid-range and mid~low range,
Agents —> best at long-range
Engis —> best at melee range - but WITH shotguns.
medics —> O.K. at mid~low range - BEST /only class besides commander / at healing.

@Bull_dawg
your right with the 7 point weapons at most points but you miss e.g. the pushback caused by the sniper. this might be pro but also con.
the long range of the weapon is also important, you can shoot nearly over the half map. the bigger machine guns – well, I do not use them at all. I mostly go for maximum count of units instead of best weapons - I like the abilities more than weapons.

for the melee weapons – they were quite good in the beta, all melees needed 2 or 3 energy with the same damage they have now. many people wanted it different - they said, they were Overpowered and wanted a cut of about 50%. I was one of the only ones that said"cut it and they will not be in use anymore, If you feel like you NEED to cut it, decrease by 10-15%" … well they got a huge cut of 30-75% so… we will see where this leads.

hope you understand what I mean :slight_smile:

with friendly regards
me

(Smouse) #4

Archies arrows require too much energy. Change from 6 to 4 or 5

(EL-CO) #5

[QUOTE=tinker;421321]for the melee weapons – they were quite good in the beta, all melees needed 2 or 3 energy with the same damage they have now. many people wanted it different - they said, they were Overpowered and wanted a cut of about 50%. I was one of the only ones that said"cut it and they will not be in use anymore, If you feel like you NEED to cut it, decrease by 10-15%" … well they got a huge cut of 30-75% so… we will see where this leads.
[/QUOTE]

tinker, nobody insisted to cut melee weapons so much. At least I insisted to debuff melee weapons 10-20%, not 50%. And you were the one insisted that there were no need to debuff melee weapons at all. See “Some words on melee weapons” thread.

The other thing I would like to see is that more weapons for commando as I think they should be the most combat-oriented soldiers. They need more variety of weapons.

(Catnadian) #6

I hope you realize why something that can do 150+ damage in a round and completely ignore cover is a bad thing.

(Smouse) #7

The fact that they require 6 pts makes them pointless. 2 shots from the hoo hoo rah does just as much damage.

(Sandman77) #8

Tinker I meant dave not Pete :slight_smile:

I still think its unfair to ristrict games to class, look at agents, they have way to powerful guns and skills, if you play with anyone who has 2 juans you have a very unbalanced game.

(Crozzton) #9

[QUOTE=Sandman77;421451]Tinker I meant dave not Pete :slight_smile:

I still think its unfair to ristrict games to class, look at agents, they have way to powerful guns and skills, if you play with anyone who has 2 juans you have a very unbalanced game.[/QUOTE]

Not sure it was you, but didn’t I just beat the living crap out of your 2 Juans?

Anyhow. Ill take on 2 or 4 of whatever anytime. You might specialize in one particular cool skill. I will only have to put my concern in one type of counter to it and him being slow will let me maneuver around him. 1 of each sniper is harder than 3 Juan’s IMO. Since you can’t really calculate who went where. With 3 Juan’s it’s the same count to all possible paths.

(Crozzton) #10

It ignores cover and it can be on Archie armed with a knife. You can then have commander with hoo-hah and whatnot at 5 pts and Archie as nuke. They will see the knife and think he isn’t that dangerous but he can go out of cover and nuke for ~126 dam on top of the dam from the others.

It gives you the opportunity to chose how to spend your energy beat way since it damages as 1 1/2 shot from hoo-hah which can be nice with uneven squares vs LOS. Meaning either one shot from hooHah and 2 energy to spare or just use all 6 and deal a bit more.

Furthermore: the most important and way underestimated damage in the game. It does SPLASH DAMAGE. ( play fanfare here) shoot it into a cluster and you get value for the energy!!!

(Catnadian) #11

What do we all think about Shotguns being available for Medic class? Just seeing if I can get some second opinions here since we’re talkin’ about weapons and all.

(Crozzton) #12

Believe Kate Will be even better if you get the option of a stumpington. Besides Kate I find it ok for other healers

Would like techs to be able to get a rifle tho. 5 range @ 20 dam.
Their weaponry seems as if they are supposed to defend their crap turrets against melee with their bad range. At least give them something that can reach other than other techs or medics ( which for some reason run out in front a turret and stays there)

More weapon choices for commander too. Everything but sniper rifles imo

(Catnadian) #13

As it stands right now, Dee Hatlacker is the best Engineer as his deployable plays into what a good shotgun strategy is, and helps it along more. I felt like Shotgun Medics would be alright because their job is to stay back (maybe move up to use an ability) and protect the team, which Shotguns would help with. Once the melee tweaks come out, there would be some choice between running up for melee and positioning yourself with the shotgun in addition to using the SMGs, which seem to be strictly four-star low damage weaponry. I find the Sixgun to be like a shotgun stand-in, but before I had the Cockler I used to use it exclusively with Kate and sometimes with my Captain.

I was considering it recounting my few successes with Angela, all of which involved equipping her with a melee weapon and pushing the enemy around.

(Crozzton) #14

True.
I just find dee obsolete endgame since, if not backed up by one or two healers, he will ripped apart by dot teams. And playing a dot team I won’t throw the grenade unless I get the healer aswell. So even at 26 pts I don’t find him good unless he has two healers. That means you only have one spot left for nuke. ( since commander is there)
Have used him myself in a 6 toon heal hell grp but went for a Gus for the last spot.
At 14 pts he isn’t value imo. If he was lightweight he would have had a real place in an endgame setup even at 14.

(EL-CO) #15

I just think it’s too much. Kate will be even more powerful and 3 or 4 medics squads in 20/26 pts match will gain some benefits. I have no complaints in current medic weapons. And I believe that Megan is the best engineer!

(Tarq) #16

HMG: It’s arguably better than shotguns at ripping into targets at close range, but it still does good damage at ranges SGs can’t touch. So at least a 6 squad point weapon, and I don’t mind it as 7.

Avenger: Here I agree with the OP. The opportunity cost of that 8 action-point (IIRC) shot seems too high.

Engineers: What I’d like to see in Engineer weapons is a little more variety. Something like a big pistol or solid-shot using SG that can hit targets at 5 or 6, and maybe do KB at a range greater than 1. Lower damage - but the point would be adding variety, not something “better.” For a 4-squad point weapon: SG-pistol?

Medics: “OK as is” IMO. They’re so darn useful, esp. Kate and Gus. And I think the variety they’re offered is good enough… though maybe a simple bolt-action rifle as a 4 or 5 squad point plinking option?

(Catnadian) #17

I’m a little iffy about giving Medics more range than they currently have, I just felt like shotguns would be a good tradeoff between the binary of Melee and the flexibility of SMGs. Sure, Kate with a Hamjak is a frightening proposal, but at the same time, she’s up in your face, not healing teammates (which is downright blasphemous), and hopefully already blew her toxbomb on something easily mitigated. I feel like only smart Medic Shotgun play would be rewarded, but I too would be a little wary of the possible (yet entirely hypothetical) consequences.

I really don’t like the HMG. Another weapon I rag on constantly, the Avenger, at least had a dev pop in and throw out a use I wasn’t entirely cognizant of, but I’ve never been left in any scenario where I thought to myself “Golly, the HMG sure would have been nice there” or “Man, that HMG was a pain in my ass”. Usually because I’ve either seen it on Dave (why) or Ivan (more understandable, but far from his ideal weapon), and never used to good effect. I want to try it on Archie, though, maybe sometime after the tournament.

(Hot-Wire) #18

The arrow does around 56 damage at most and has 1 square radius of splash damage… it also ignores cover… Seeing how the HMG does around the same damage without splash damage and that cover reduces its damage output at the cost of 5 points. … 6 is reasonable.

(Smouse) #19

Juan Da Cova too powerful when armed with a botherer sr?

Perhaps limiting him to melee and short range weapons would have been better

(WillisYu) #20

I cannot agree you even more! Juan DaCova is a bug with botherer! Maximum 200+ damage in one turn with 300 life points. And he can be invisible so he can be deployed anywhere. That breaks the game system balance to such an extent. We can almost all 40 level players have one JuanDaCova in their team or even two! That needs to be changed!!!