y not this? this is actually good idea.[/quote]
One draw back would be figuring out the balance of a when and when not a unbalance disfavors the enemy team. Good example is in an 8 v 7, you shouldn’t get the boost then or if you do, a greatly reduced boost. But with something like 5 v 8? In that case, I would say guarantee a more lucrative reward
Fuck no to ya’ll retarded forced shuffle bitching already. There’s enough of that shite in pubs already as it stands for now.
There are already people who switch to even out a 7v5 situations and such without saying a damn word, but hell I’ve ran so many times into situation I swap team around and continue playing only to see the god awful shuffle idiocy pass ANYWAY because every cursed kid was too focused on reaching that F5 or pageup key with a selfiestick or whatever garbage they have today, to notice teams were already balanced out number-wise.
Making the voluntarily switching actually profitable would definitely increase the amount of people doing this. 10 goddamn times better option that shoving some arbitrary, meaningless forced idiocy upon everyone. @TeuFort has it nailed down here, just like there are quite a couple others in the past and present.
All this fruitless balance discussion continually keeps forgetting the most important aspects that currently create inbalance. No matter the amount of senseless shuffles you WONT fix those 5 recons doing jackshite and bottoming the scoreboard. You might by sheer luck get them separated 2/3 or 1/4 but that either wont fix next things that might be lack of medics, lack of players doing their actual class roles like engis playing as pseudo assaults instead of defusing / repairing, you bloody name it.
[list]
[] 3 recons
[] no medic
[] 3 proxies
[] no medic
[] pushing in 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 and getting mowed down
[] its public anyone can join
[] no medic
[] drop in drop out
[*] did I mention medics?
[/list][/quote]
And yet instead levels, map design, “that merc is op”, etcetc gets the damn blame. Because hey, much easier to blame external reasons so the whiner NEVER has to think about getting better themselves right?
Talk about CoD mentality…(not to be confused with the game, it can be just fine in it’s own niche)
[list]
[] 3 recons
[] no medic
[] 3 proxies
[] no medic
[] pushing in 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 and getting mowed down
[] its public anyone can join
[] no medic
[] drop in drop out
[*] did I mention medics?
[/list][/quote]
And yet instead levels, map design, “that merc is op”, etcetc gets the damn blame. Because hey, much easier to blame external reasons so the whiner NEVER has to think about getting better themselves right?
Talk about CoD mentality…(not to be confused with the game, it can be just fine in it’s own niche)[/quote]
this type of thinking doesn’t help at all. Bad players can’t just ‘decide’ to have good merc composition, and fight together, not on pubs.
On pubs, being a good teamplay is a skill, same as aim,movement, game awareness. And so, a team can pubstomp cause they have well-skilled teamplayers, and the other team loses horribly because they have bad-skill teamplayers. Is it THEIR FAULT any less than it is THEIR FAULT they have BAD AIM? Why blame people for bad teamplay, if we do not blame them for bad aim/movement?
One way or the other, there are too many pubstomps in DB, very few mitigating factors (come back mechanics, shuffles, etc.). and most of all, stomping feels more brutal than in most FPS (in CS or sth you can still get kills and carry, in DB you just spawn against a wall of players over and over).
And this all comes round to why ranked should have been the way to get games, because then low skill players can learn at their own pace and, should they want to get better and get better rewards, they can rank up over time and fight better and better players.
That’s right. Ranked should be the core. Yet SD failed to make it the core for a long time already.
We have trinkets, we have Double Credits game. Ranked still dead as a Western Ghost Town.
8 steam friends vasilli pitted against a team of Aura, Skyhammer, Bushwhacker, Thunder, Phantom.
8v5, both is only capped at level 10 at highest (Skyhammer and one of the vasilli)
these opposing force fight in a stopwatch Chapel map.
the vasilli team keep ask to shuffle (not knowing how to change team) because they keep arguing on how his team is the worse because it consist only sniper, and yet, they did not want to change to an engineer, to a medic or to other mercs.
Despite the number, range advantage and advantage of coordination posibilities between the team, the vasilli team lost.
the thing what i preceive is, these new players only want in an Ideal team where everyone play like usual and he play vasilli so he didnt lose.
2 of the vasillis disconnected from the server just before the game finished, leaving 6 other shooting at floors and walls and shouting at each other to do the objective.
i spectated this game very carefully and come to the conclusion that…
These are newbies being newb.
I think that’s what he’s implying though. There’s so many things that affect balance, and like I’ve said so many times to other people, “skill” isn’t enough to force a balance.
You can balance out people by accuracy and k/d ability, but ultimately there is no way to know how “good” a player is in regards to everything else required for a team based shooter. Their ability to read situations, make smart choices, general positioning, grouping up and pushing as a team, not wasting their abilities at stupid times, co-ordinating their abilities together and just being able to make smart merc choices to fix their teams composition rather than just playing whatever they want etc. The list of crap that can’t be recorded means prefect balance will never be a thing. It’s just how class based team FPS games are, and people need to realize this.
Honestly I get so sick of new players (and often even high level guys) complaining about balance when they have little or zero game sense. They solo rush the objective, they have 5 engineers, no medics, no ammo dealers, no DPS characters, don’t position themselves properly or work with their team in any way shape or form and then blame the game for a crappy balance thinking it’s stacked. These types of players have to realize that regardless of a re-balance, playing like an idiot will mean you’re probably always going to lose. I see this all too often in pubs even from high level players. A team of 5 Proxy’s all repairing the EV at the same time with no suppressive fire is never going to work.
It isn’t just noobs either - It works the other way too. There’s plenty of good players who are totally clueless. I have friends that play this game who have better gun skills than me and many “top players” and understand the basics quite well. They understand flanking and know how to abuse the movement system, so to a noob it looks like they are really good. But at the end of the day this only works for them in a low skilled game where every one is clueless. As soon as some good players join even if their gun skills aren’t as good, these friends of mine often get stomped just through their lack of understanding of important things. Usually merc composition, not knowing how to counter certain classes, and another big part is because they just run around doing their own thing, which despite their amazing gun skills it just doesn’t work against co-ordinated enemies working together.
tl;dr - There’s just too much crap that determines how good a player is that can’t really be recorded on paper, so balance is never going to be even close to perfect. Even 5v5 DBN pugs that look balanced usually always result in a stomp for one team because far more stuff out weighs individual skill.
there’s no incentive for teamplay anymore, in W:ET the incentive was winning, so you had to “git gud” now the incentive is credits to buy in-game items so people want to know “what’s the best merc to get credits” and teamplay is gone, everyone wants to be the “killer” support is deemed a lesser value
Like I’m so confused, if there’s a shuffle function implemented in-game why not just have it on automatic???
community
Rofl this game is totally dying. There are only few autistic players who believe this shit is doing some kind of Jesus Christ impossibility resurrection. There is no “community” any more: Numbers don’t lie:
Last 30 Days 1,458.1 -41.5 -2.76% 2,649
October 2016 1,499.6 -188.8 -11.18% 2,831
September 2016 1,688.4 -211.4 -11.13% 3,285
August 2016 1,899.8 -290.9 -13.28% 3,259
July 2016 2,190.8 -255.8 -10.45% 3,724
June 2016 2,446.6 -357.1 -12.74% 4,562
May 2016 2,803.7 -330.3 -10.54% 5,863
April 2016 3,134.0 +470.1 +17.65% 6,414
March 2016 2,663.8 +104.4 +4.08% 5,115
February 2016 2,559.4 -46.7 -1.79% 5,216
January 2016 2,606.1 -188.5 -6.75% 4,670
December 2015 2,794.6 -336.6 -10.75% 5,326
November 2015 3,131.2 +570.0 +22.26% 6,680
October 2015 2,561.1 -258.6 -9.17% 6,008
September 2015 2,819.7 -1,269.2 -31.04% 5,304
August 2015 4,088.9 -3,012.8 -42.42% 7,477
July 2015 7,101.7 +725.5 +11.38% 11,302
June 2015 6,376.1 +6,368.4 +81955.47% 12,963
February 2015 7.8 -51.6 -86.91% 368
January 2015 59.4 - - 312
[quote=“Szakalot;213444”]
this type of thinking doesn’t help at all. Bad players can’t just ‘decide’ to have good merc composition, and fight together, not on pubs. [/quote]
I put it bluntly I agree, but I did not mean it’s entirely their fault, the fault is they’re never properly taught to it AND nowadays prevalent attitude in gaming seems to be (note; seems, my experiences and perception) to seek blame in everything else and never thinking of ways to get better themselves. Tutorial and early teaching is lacking, because people can skip those too easily, but it’s still themselves being foolish to skip them. It’s an issue spawning from the very bottom, core: people are both not taught properly to how game works AND they also skip any little teaching there is.
Then again bad players should play with mostly equally bad players. This is something current server-browser based playing cannot bend to, I agree, everyone are mixed and tossed around and major skillgaps happen. In earlier days this could’ve been seen mostly as an inspiring thing, along the lines of “whoa those fellas are so damn good”, but now instead its mostly met with insults and hackusation. Because again, being bad is nothing to be shamed of, but being bad and throwing a tantrum about it and finding blame in everything else than oneself is a problem.
[quote=“Szakalot;213444”]
One way or the other, there are too many pubstomps in DB, very few mitigating factors (come back mechanics, shuffles, etc.). and most of all, stomping feels more brutal than in most FPS (in CS or sth you can still get kills and carry, in DB you just spawn against a wall of players over and over). [/quote]
Valid points, and again matchmaking- style pubs (or straight up just ranked) and community servers in server browser would be major fixes to this issue. Higher end pub players would eventually gravitate towards certain servers, causing them to be away from starting players, and such stomps would be more rare occurence. I assume you’re pro-community servers too, dont take this comment as opposite, I just wanted to point it out again.
[quote=“bontsa;213538”]
Valid points, and again matchmaking- style pubs (or straight up just ranked) and community servers in server browser would be major fixes to this issue. Higher end pub players would eventually gravitate towards certain servers, causing them to be away from starting players, and such stomps would be more rare occurence. I assume you’re pro-community servers too, dont take this comment as opposite, I just wanted to point it out again.[/quote]
Splitting the community inside the same game mode is in fact the best option they should have taken from the start. From 7vs7 ff off to 6vs6 ff on with class restriction and comp-like rules, you have plenty of rules that could orientate the players to their own taste. And this is mainly made possible by the use of community servers.
What I really fear is that they keep trying to create a balancing system who can pull a good stew out of a roaster made of premier league players and local league ones, who drink a beer prior to any game played. CMM is going to crash if they don’t pull some players out of this. By indirect ways of course, but this would greatly help them.
@royalFlag Can you stop abusing the “Flag” for bontsa and Montiel’s post please
Just more further proves age is just a number, hu. Even my 5 y-o sister has more sense.
I just got my first reason-less abuse reaction too though so whatever :'D
[quote=“B. Montiel;213540”]
What I really fear is that they keep trying to create a balancing system who can pull a good stew out of a roaster made of premier league players and local league ones, who drink a beer prior to any game played. CMM is going to crash if they don’t pull some players out of this. By indirect ways of course, but this would greatly help them.[/quote]
Yep, its a very high possibility we end up with majorly split playerbase between Ranked, CMM and Server Browser if not done correctly. Time will tell, pretty sure SD’s heard our opinions by now.
All snark aside, I love Dirty Bomb, and I don’t want it to die, but nothing is going to change by forcing matchmaking into pubs, matchmaking is what ranked is for.
This game should have had community ran servers from the get go, and because they didn’t people are coming and leaving because they can’t find a place to play that fits their skill level. And skilled players are plateauing fast and are pretty much staying just because nothing else suits them.
Until we get real servers for US to run, we are not going to change anything, it’ll only get worse.