We need a way to modernize rare Gen 1 loadouts to Gen 2 without RNGrinding.

(SzGamer227) #1

TL;DR Version:

We should be able to spend credits to update Silver+ and Special Edition loadout cards to their Second Edition variant to smooth the transition from Gen 1 to Gen 2, and give new life to old Special Edition cards that are unused because of their poor augment choice.

Full Version:

(Spoilers contain more pointed assertions and elaborated arguments for people who are not convinced by the other text or perhaps just want extra reading.)

Second Edition loadout card hype is real, but there are (of course) concerns about our shiny collections of existing cards, the result of hours and hours of blood, sweat, and credit-grinding RNG-driven tears. Better versions of cards we worked hard to earn are coming, and I don’t want all the work that went into getting those cards to go to waste.

Very simply, I think there should be a way to take Silver, Gold, and Cobalt First Edition loadout cards and trade them in for the upgraded Second Edition version of the card (e.g. exchanging a Silver 1st Edition M62 Power Rifleman for a Silver 2nd Edition M62 Power Rifleman), bringing our shiny collection of cards to the modern age of loadout and augment balance. Otherwise, we’ll have to start the long grind for Gold and Cobalt cards all over again just so that we have our loadout augments reflect the same standard as our rare skins.

[spoiler][quote=“SzGamer227;178953”]Loadout Cards are a core mechanic to the game with universal repercussions when altered. Nobody is unaffected by the change in Loadout Cards except for people who come into the game from that point onwards, so the shift from First Generation to Second Generation loadout cards can be compared to updated mechanics and stats for a merc. (Updates to all loadout cards are more or less just a series of updates to all mercs.) Changing a merc’s loadout cards and then leaving people with the old loadouts to work for the new ones is like upgrading a merc’s stats, but requiring people to spend time and credits at a slot machine to gain access to the updated merc’s abilities and characteristics. The latter of the two would be ridiculous for developers to do during a Beta, when changes are as frequent as they are, but that’s exactly what is going to happen with Loadout Cards. Updates to universal game principles should not require excessive time and effort on the part of the user in order to receive the beneficial updates involved, especially when it entails that people who have invested the most time and effort into the game are the ones who will be the ones who have to apply the most time to keep up or lose the most if they don’t.[/quote][/spoiler]

Currently, there has not been any system to trade in Special Edition loadouts, but with Rogue En Vogue at an end and soon-to be-obsolete Suspect cards sitting in a box next to old Xmas2k15, Containment War, and Alienware cards of the same caliber, it would be great if we could breath new life into these limited edition cards as well. A large portion of Special Edition cards are unused because they don’t have aguments that make them worth using, and Second Edition cards could finally offer an opportunity to let these rare but unappreciated cards shine.

[spoiler][quote=“SzGamer227;178953”]The whole point of the Special Edition cards that were released exclusively during the early stages of Open Beta is to give loyal players something to show for the time, dedication, and perhaps money, that they put into the game. The only point of having event-exclusive non-replaceable never-to-be-seen-again cards is to let players show off that they were around for that event. Letting those cards get outclassed by new standard cards defeats that purpose entirely, because it becomes a choice between showing off your exclusive Special Edition card and using cards with better augment selection, and only people who really really want to keep using shiny outdated cards will do so. Unless there is some way to modernize Special Edition cards, a vast majority of those cards will be useless, and Special Edition cards might as well not have existed in the first place.[/quote][/spoiler]

Having a certain period of time after the update where we can shake the dust off our favorite existing loadouts would smooth the transition from the First Generation to the next, and would save us a lot of trouble, credits, shaking fists at the damned RNG gods.

(Runeforce) #2

No. That’s a completely unreasonable thing to ask, no way I will let my S.E.'s upgrade at that shitty a deal.

(blonk) #3

Totally agree, was thinking about this earlier. This gives a strong sense that SD is throwing in the towel and not balancing the augments that are of little use. Hopefully I’m wrong on that but it seems a bit crap to phase out the useless loadouts without fixing them and without giving players a way to sort out the lemon cards they’ve already got.

(NetflixandKill) #4

Honestly, I don’t mean to be hostile by saying this, but I’m getting a bit tired of seeing people cry out when SD/Nexon make a large change and people play the “I payed money” card on it. I’ve paid for cases as well (ReV), but when I did so, I understood that I was paying money into an Open Beta. This means there may be rather large tweaks over the game’s lifespan, and although Nexon has made basic promises (no more account resets), things I pay money for may be changed. Now, a second generation of loadout cards are coming, and people are upset that the cards they put money into may be outclassed.

I personally think the second gen cards are necessary. There are some cards that will just never be good (2/3rds of Sparks cards), and some augments (Pineapple Juggler) that will never be useful, no matter how much “balancing” goes into place. On the bright side, if trading ever comes out (if), then even crap first gen silver+ cards may be valued by collectors simply for the rarity.

tl;dr Paying for things in a game clearly marketed as an Open Beta can have changes like this. Yes, it’d be consumer friendly for SD to do something like this, but I honestly don’t think they will. Yeah, it kind of sucks, but first gen shinies may be immensely valuable some day. If not, oh well.

(AnonOmis1000) #5

buy them from the store

(SzGamer227) #6

[quote=“NetflixandKill;178904”]Honestly, I don’t mean to be hostile by saying this, but I’m getting a bit tired of seeing people cry out when SD/Nexon make a large change and people play the “I payed money” card on it. I’ve paid for cases as well (ReV), but when I did so, I understood that I was paying money into an Open Beta. This means there may be rather large tweaks over the game’s lifespan, and although Nexon has made basic promises (no more account resets), things I pay money for may be changed. Now, a second generation of loadout cards are coming, and people are upset that the cards they put money into may be outclassed.

I personally think the second gen cards are necessary. There are some cards that will just never be good (2/3rds of Sparks cards), and some augments (Pineapple Juggler) that will never be useful, no matter how much “balancing” goes into place. On the bright side, if trading ever comes out (if), then even crap first gen silver+ cards may be valued by collectors simply for the rarity.

tl;dr Paying for things in a game clearly marketed as an Open Beta can have changes like this. Yes, it’d be consumer friendly for SD to do something like this, but I honestly don’t think they will. Yeah, it kind of sucks, but first gen shinies may be immensely valuable some day. If not, oh well.[/quote]

Look at it this way. The whole point of the Special Edition cards that were released exclusively during the early stages of Open Beta is to give loyal players something to show for the time, dedication, and perhaps money, that they put into the game. The only point of having event-exclusive non-replaceable never-to-be-seen-again cards is to let players show off that they were around for that event. Letting those cards get outclassed by new standard cards defeats that purpose entirely, because it becomes a choice between showing off your exclusive Special Edition card and using cards with better augment selection, and only people who really really want to keep using shiny outdated cards will do so. Unless there is some way to modernize Special Edition cards, a vast majority of those cards will be useless, and Special Edition cards might as well not have existed in the first place.

Now look at it this way. Loadout Cards are a core mechanic to the game with universal repercussions when altered. Nobody is unaffected by the change in Loadout Cards except for people who come into the game from that point onwards, so the shift from First Generation to Second Generation loadout cards can be compared to updated mechanics and stats for a merc. (Updates to all loadout cards are more or less just a series of updates to all mercs.) Changing a merc’s loadout cards and then leaving people with the old loadouts to work for the new ones is like upgrading a merc’s stats, but requiring people to spend time and credits at a slot machine to gain access to the updated merc’s abilities and characteristics. The latter of the two would be ridiculous for developers to do during a Beta, when changes are as frequent as they are, but that’s exactly what is going to happen with Loadout Cards. Updates to universal game principles should not require excessive time and effort on the part of the user in order to receive the beneficial updates involved, especially when it entails that people who have invested the most time and effort into the game are the ones who will be the ones who have to apply the most time to keep up or lose the most if they don’t.

It wouldn’t just be nice if they did allow First Generation cards to be traded in for the better Second Edition ones, it would be absolutely senseless for them not to.

(SzGamer227) #7

You can’t buy specific Silver+ cards from the store, and you certainly can’t get your hands on certain Special Edition sets ever again. smh

(SaulWolfden) #8

[quote=“NetflixandKill;178904”]Honestly, I don’t mean to be hostile by saying this, but I’m getting a bit tired of seeing people cry out when SD/Nexon make a large change and people play the “I payed money” card on it. I’ve paid for cases as well (ReV), but when I did so, I understood that I was paying money into an Open Beta. This means there may be rather large tweaks over the game’s lifespan, and although Nexon has made basic promises (no more account resets), things I pay money for may be changed. Now, a second generation of loadout cards are coming, and people are upset that the cards they put money into may be outclassed.

I personally think the second gen cards are necessary. There are some cards that will just never be good (2/3rds of Sparks cards), and some augments (Pineapple Juggler) that will never be useful, no matter how much “balancing” goes into place. On the bright side, if trading ever comes out (if), then even crap first gen silver+ cards may be valued by collectors simply for the rarity.

tl;dr Paying for things in a game clearly marketed as an Open Beta can have changes like this. Yes, it’d be consumer friendly for SD to do something like this, but I honestly don’t think they will. Yeah, it kind of sucks, but first gen shinies may be immensely valuable some day. If not, oh well.[/quote]

Pineapple Juggler - Throw items (Ammo, Medpacks, Mines, Smoke, etc) 20 percent faster, the best idea I’ve seen (this in in addition to what it already does, so it’s like Guardian Angel).

(AnonOmis1000) #9

You can’t buy specific Silver+ cards from the store, and you certainly can’t get your hands on certain Special Edition sets ever again. smh[/quote]

So? that’s kind of the point.

(SzGamer227) #10

You can’t buy specific Silver+ cards from the store, and you certainly can’t get your hands on certain Special Edition sets ever again. smh[/quote]

So? that’s kind of the point.[/quote]

…

Could you…

Could you be more specific?

Because I sure as hell don’t see what you’re trying to say or how it’s relevant to the problem at hand. Would you care to enlighten me or are you going to continue being vague?

(AnonOmis1000) #11

I don’t see why you’d need to upgrade it. Not all special edition cards have all 9 first edition cards for some mercs. Look at the humble bundle, logitech, and alienware skins. There’s only one or two cards per merc for them. Sure the event cards have all 9, but it doesn’t make sense to me to be able to get them for the second edition cards when second edition didn’t exist yet.

(watsyurdeal) #12

You can’t buy specific Silver+ cards from the store, and you certainly can’t get your hands on certain Special Edition sets ever again. smh[/quote]

So? that’s kind of the point.[/quote]

…

Could you…

Could you be more specific?

Because I sure as hell don’t see what you’re trying to say or how it’s relevant to the problem at hand. Would you care to enlighten me or are you going to continue being vague?[/quote]

He’s saying there’s a reason gen 1 cards can’t be upgraded to their gen 2 counter parts. It’s for rarity’s sake, those cards could be sold later on once the Steam Market is added in to the game. There’s no reason to upgrade cards, you’ll have to roll like everyone else.

(NetflixandKill) #13

@SzGamer227 (not going to quote the entire post because it’d make for a super long post)

I agree that loadout cards are an integral part of the game (they are the loadouts, after all), and I see how Gen II might obsolesce some Gen I special editions, but like you said, SE cards are meant to signify you were around for the event, which they still will. You can have the best Gen I card in a CW/WtD skin, and older players will recognize that. But it’s not like people were already having to choose between event cosmetics and actual good cards. For example: I have a suspect MA71 Thunder, which is easily his worst MK loadout. The MA42 (or 45, whichever one with Drilled/Spares) is easily better than my Suspect card, but is in Bronze. Gen II might make some people with really good SE cards begin to make the swag v. quality choice, but that exists in DB even with standard rarity (T92 Skyhammer in Cobalt v. literally any other Skyhammer in silver).

People already have to sacrifice quality perks for cosmetics, and now more people will face that choice. It sucks, but players got what was available at the time. I feel like fixing it and making Second Edition SE would almost taint the SE itself, because you’re getting a different card then what you were dropped. Not every card is going to have a direct translation to Gen II (for example, nothing compares to CR63 Phantom). Therefore, players would likely have to re-RNG for new cards, and potentially get a downgrade / something new entirely, which would kill the event entirely.

tl;dr I rambled like hell (but thanks for reading?) I don’t really have a fix, and I don’t think there necessarily should be, since people already make the cosmetic v. quality choice in Gen I alone.

(AnonOmis1000) #14

[quote=“NetflixandKill;179077”]@SzGamer227 (not going to quote the entire post because it’d make for a super long post)

I agree that loadout cards are an integral part of the game (they are the loadouts, after all), and I see how Gen II might obsolesce some Gen I special editions, but like you said, SE cards are meant to signify you were around for the event, which they still will. You can have the best Gen I card in a CW/WtD skin, and older players will recognize that. But it’s not like people were already having to choose between event cosmetics and actual good cards. For example: I have a suspect MA71 Thunder, which is easily his worst MK loadout. The MA42 (or 45, whichever one with Drilled/Spares) is easily better than my Suspect card, but is in Bronze. Gen II might make some people with really good SE cards begin to make the swag v. quality choice, but that exists in DB even with standard rarity (T92 Skyhammer in Cobalt v. literally any other Skyhammer in silver).

People already have to sacrifice quality perks for cosmetics, and now more people will face that choice. It sucks, but players got what was available at the time. I feel like fixing it and making Second Edition SE would almost taint the SE itself, because you’re getting a different card then what you were dropped. Not every card is going to have a direct translation to Gen II (for example, nothing compares to CR63 Phantom). Therefore, players would likely have to re-RNG for new cards, and potentially get a downgrade / something new entirely, which would kill the event entirely.

tl;dr I rambled like hell (but thanks for reading?) I don’t really have a fix, and I don’t think there necessarily should be, since people already make the cosmetic v. quality choice in Gen I alone. [/quote]

I’d still like a feature that allowed you to reroll what event card you get. Say for instance you want to reroll a ReV card you don’t like. You don’t get to choose the merc, it only requires one card, and it costs a lot of credits. It would also only be for the cards that were made for that event (or special edition if you want to go with HB, Logitech, or Alienware).

(RazielWarmonic) #15

Hey guys,

I just posted in another thread regarding this, but I am going to paste it here too:

This is a big concern for us as well, your Special Edition, Obsidian, etc. cards not being “worth” anything anymore because they are obsolete.

As a long term goal, we are looking into how to keep these cards relevant.

I have no more information to share about this at this time however, sorry about that. I just want let you guys know we share the same concerns about this.

(Tanker_Ray) #16

[quote=“RazielWarmonic;179272”]Hey guys,

I just posted in another thread regarding this, but I am going to paste it here too:

This is a big concern for us as well, your Special Edition, Obsidian, etc. cards not being “worth” anything anymore because they are obsolete.

As a long term goal, we are looking into how to keep these cards relevant.

I have no more information to share about this at this time however, sorry about that. I just want let you guys know we share the same concerns about this.[/quote]

Well then, may I ask you if we ares able to trade those special editions?(or even Founders may be.)

(LifeupOmega) #17
(Tommy) #18

Maybe we could have an option to trade a gen 1 into it’s new upgraded gen 2 edition. That way collectors can keep gen 1s if they want to and people who want to use their cards competitively can easily make their old cards viable.
It would be a considerate addition for the people who really like their old cards and have stuck around a while! :slight_smile:

(Cletus_VanDamme) #19

[quote=“Tommy;179291”]Maybe we could have an option to trade a gen 1 into it’s new upgraded gen 2 edition. That way collectors can keep gen 1s if they want to and people who want to use their cards competitively can easily make their old cards viable.
It would be a considerate addition for the people who really like their old cards and have stuck around a while! :)[/quote]

The problem with that is that unlike new loadout cards, being able to upgrade your existing inventory won’t make SD / Nexon any money, so it will have to be coming soon.

(MarsRover) #20

[quote=“RazielWarmonic;179272”]Hey guys,

I just posted in another thread regarding this, but I am going to paste it here too:

This is a big concern for us as well, your Special Edition, Obsidian, etc. cards not being “worth” anything anymore because they are obsolete.

As a long term goal, we are looking into how to keep these cards relevant.

I have no more information to share about this at this time however, sorry about that. I just want let you guys know we share the same concerns about this.[/quote]

I just hope that your long term solution will not turn out to be “you can trade them for something else when trading arrives”.