Was Thunder OP with EMP + Flash Grenade

[TepidJesus]

In my opinion thunder was never OP because of the EMP effect on his flash grenade, I feel that the EMP on his flash bang actually made him useful rather than a Russian rage generator which he is now. What do you guys think? Was Thunder cooler with his EMP and should he get it back (would add another counter to turtles shield)

[ImSploosh]

That was my favorite part about him. I hate the EMP on Phantom, it does more harm than good most of the time. It lets people know you’re there stalking them.

I’d like to see it go back on Thunder, but maybe increase his cooldown? I can’t remember if the EMP just temporarily stopped deployables or if it destroyed them, but I just know it was useful and made Thunder feel useful. I think people were actually asking for a buff for Thunder previously, before the changes. I’d have to search the forums a bit more because I’ve mostly forgotten about all the Thunder stuff.

[TheStrangerous]

Thunder was considered underpowered back then.

Seems to be no middle ground, when it comes to balance. Nerf him a bit, he’s UP. Buff him a bit, he’s OP.

[bgyoshi]

At the start, his grenade was most useful IMO. It blinded, stunned, and completely stopped mouse movement depending on how direct of a shot it was, plus disabled things. But people said it was too OP, they completely removed the mouse lock and shortened the timer to be… literally useless, and gave EMP to Phantom. So they buffed him to what he is now, and he hasn’t changed since.

I liked original flash bang the most, but seems too good in 5v5

[Szakalot]

shortened timer is one of the most OP things, whatcha talking bout, now thunder can whip a nade in your face at any point and its impossible to dodge

and dont touch my mouse please

[GatoCommodore]

thunder flash was useless because people will still run at full speed and sometimes dont blind at all

the EMP duration was too short for thunder alone, but it was good if thunder was accompanied by other mercs to kill deployables before they get turned on again.

also,
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/2017-04-04_fire-in-the-skies-update/

-Increased Cooldown by ~13% to 17s (from 15s)
-Makes this the same as Fragger and slightly less spammy

i dont know about you but thunder has been nerfed now and people still getting rage becuz muh vision

meanwhile fragger nade can also explode and kill instantly but nobody really talks about that huh.

[LifeupOmega]

He was mostly considered UP because he was a buggy mess on release, let’s be real.

[everlovestruck]

how about we just add cooking?
nothing less, nothing more

[STARRYSOCK]

Imo being concussed AND having your med station shut off is a bit much. It’s better on phantom, even though most people can’t figure out how to play him.

@everlovestruck said:
how about we just add cooking?
nothing less, nothing more

Unavoidable concussions? Please no. I’d much rather have a chance to dodge them, no idea why so many people want cooking.

[Szakalot]

@STARRYSOCK said:
Imo being concussed AND having your med station shut off is a bit much. It’s better on phantom, even though most people can’t figure out how to play him.

@everlovestruck said:
how about we just add cooking?
nothing less, nothing more

Unavoidable concussions? Please no. I’d much rather have a chance to dodge them, no idea why so many people want cooking.

unavoidable concussions is the current situation. With the fuse as short as currently, a thunder can pop a nade in your face with no real chance of fighting back.

Cooking is the exact opposite scenario, as Thunder will have to give up map control to start the cooking procedure. Yeah sure, once in a while a well prepped Thunder will peek a corner and surprise nade you, but its no different from how it is now. Cooking is the exact answer we need to allow counterplay to thunder concussion nade.

[Terminal_6]

I liked his EMP and just considered his “Enemies! What can they see? Are they blind? Let’s find out!” ability to be a side effect. I’d toss the EMP into an Aura nest then walk in with the team like we owned the place.

[Reddeadcap]

Nah, Don’t see why it was removed.
As for the blindness effect Splash Damage really should remove it and bring back the original concussion effect with it’s movement speed debuff or flat out rename the grenades, imho the former as concussion grenades were more interesting.

[Faraleth]

He’s a tricking one to balance because it seems even the smallest of changes can push the scales TOTALLY off balance and push him back and forth between over-powered and under-powered.

Personally I’ve always wanted to see his ability to cook the grenade return. I’ve never liked the movement impairing ability it had and to this day I think anything that directly impacts another players ability to move (eg. a slow) just causes frustration and is bad game design.

His EMP could definitely be useful, but now that Phantom has the ability, I think it would be a little much allowed two mercs to directly shutdown several other mercs like that… I could be wrong, but it’s hard to tell how game mechanics will function without actually testing them in action.

[GabebutGood]

@GatoCommodore said:
thunder flash was useless because people will still run at full speed and sometimes dont blind at all

the EMP duration was too short for thunder alone, but it was good if thunder was accompanied by other mercs to kill deployables before they get turned on again.

also,
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/2017-04-04_fire-in-the-skies-update/

-Increased Cooldown by ~13% to 17s (from 15s)
-Makes this the same as Fragger and slightly less spammy

i dont know about you but thunder has been nerfed now and people still getting rage becuz muh vision

meanwhile fragger nade can also explode and kill instantly but nobody really talks about that huh.

just wait till thunder gets nerfed we’ll hear about fragger soon enough. Seriously Thunder really is only strong because of stark (which you Know Gato) he in fact would be pretty darn weak compared to fragger without it they prob would have to add emp to his nade to give him some type of utility,(or something to make him appealing compared to fragger) beside being a T H I C C Russian dad.

[bgyoshi]

@everlovestruck said:
how about we just add cooking?
nothing less, nothing more

Guaranteed method to get me to play Thunder again, at least until I get bored of him again.

A no-penalty guarantee that the nade is unavoidable will just be too good to avoid experiencing for myself. I’d have to play him again!

[Xenithos]

If I remember correctly, Thunder had two updates while he still maintained the emp effect on his nades. One he was “OP” the other he just wasn’t. Put plainly, they didn’t need to strip him of it, but it’s the choice he made, and it’s a choice I don’t see them revoking anytime soon.

[Szakalot]

both updates made nontrivial changes to thunder, with fuse time, slowdown, thunder hp, and bugfixes.
id say that 170hp and short conc fuse time with increased conc radius are what really pushed him over the edge

[Eox]

@GatoCommodore said:
thunder flash was useless because people will still run at full speed and sometimes dont blind at all

the EMP duration was too short for thunder alone, but it was good if thunder was accompanied by other mercs to kill deployables before they get turned on again.

also,
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/2017-04-04_fire-in-the-skies-update/

-Increased Cooldown by ~13% to 17s (from 15s)
-Makes this the same as Fragger and slightly less spammy

i dont know about you but thunder has been nerfed now and people still getting rage becuz muh vision

meanwhile fragger nade can also explode and kill instantly but nobody really talks about that huh.

Fragger’s grenade is fairly predictable, can’t be outright tossed at your face mid fight without penality and doesn’t have stupidly broken hitboxes or game mechanics that will blind you and your whole team without even seeing the projectile on your screen. That’s the reason. Thunder is completely unfair. Fragger, much less.

[Melinder]

@Eox said:

@GatoCommodore said:
thunder flash was useless because people will still run at full speed and sometimes dont blind at all

the EMP duration was too short for thunder alone, but it was good if thunder was accompanied by other mercs to kill deployables before they get turned on again.

also,
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/2017-04-04_fire-in-the-skies-update/

-Increased Cooldown by ~13% to 17s (from 15s)
-Makes this the same as Fragger and slightly less spammy

i dont know about you but thunder has been nerfed now and people still getting rage becuz muh vision

meanwhile fragger nade can also explode and kill instantly but nobody really talks about that huh.

Fragger’s grenade is fairly predictable, can’t be outright tossed at your face mid fight without penality and doesn’t have stupidly broken hitboxes or game mechanics that will blind you and your whole team without even seeing the projectile on your screen. That’s the reason. Thunder is completely unfair. Fragger, much less.

This, as well as the fact that Fragger’s grenade can be completely absorbed by one person if the team is positioned somewhat behind them, whereas the concussion will hit you all regardless. Also, if the concussion grenade is not close enough to stun you, it will still most likely blind you.

[bgyoshi]

@Melinder said:

@Eox said:

Fragger’s grenade is fairly predictable, can’t be outright tossed at your face mid fight without penality and doesn’t have stupidly broken hitboxes or game mechanics that will blind you and your whole team without even seeing the projectile on your screen. That’s the reason. Thunder is completely unfair. Fragger, much less.

This, as well as the fact that Fragger’s grenade can be completely absorbed by one person if the team is positioned somewhat behind them, whereas the concussion will hit you all regardless. Also, if the concussion grenade is not close enough to stun you, it will still most likely blind you.

Once I learned how to rush a Thunder and turn away from a conc, I stopped getting “surprised”

I’d also be pretty rich if I had a dollar for every time a conc nade blew up in my face and did literally nothing. It’s p broken