Was Phantom overnerfed ?

(spicyHarp) #81

[quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;76201”]Lol, phantom isn’t even a bit good at flanking…

Literally everyone can see him walking and he lacks speed, before you can get in melee range someone will hear your footsteps and turn you.[/quote]

Because a good phantom would just get shot and not try make himself a harder target. /s

And before you say nerf shotgun its better, try using a knife with proxy, then compare it to a standard shotgun proxy. It will be difficult because she is squishy.

Don’t just compare the weapons, the mercs using it is a huge factor too.

(Someordinaryguy) #82

You have to have good aim with shotguns. They are nothing at all alike lmao how can you even compare those 2? Phantom before didn’t need any type of accuracy at all, you just left clicked and guaranteed a hit. ( in fact you could right click and just spin ) The Katana has a huge radius. Your cross-hair doesn’t need to be on them at all. Games should reward good aim and punish bad aim, end off! That was a really weak example indeed.[/quote]

@Kaos88 Last time I’ve checked on official wiki, all melee weapons except the Katana had 115 range…and the Katana has 120 range ( sarcasm yep a huge difference)

@sensitiveJellyfish True, I got a double RMB kill as Sparks with a bat (Aura revived Aura and they were standing next to each other)

@spicyHarp I’ve played with a knife Proxy in a team- since she was faster and thus harder to hit she was better melee class than Phantom

(spicyHarp) #83

[quote=“Someordinaryguy;76392”]
@spicyHarp I’ve played with a knife Proxy in a team- since she was faster and thus harder to hit she was better melee class than Phantom[/quote]

Phantom has half invisibility, more than double the hp compared to proxy and has more effective melee options. So far walljumping proxies/auras are not a problem if you can track consistently. Phantom on the other hand has invis, making walljumps far more effective at confusing the enemy.

Squishy mercs needs better CQC weapons, phantom doesn’t. He already has plenty of protection from the cloak. The fact that he can make sword alone a viable and dominant playstyle says something.

(Grave_Knight) #84

Eh. I’ve had easier time flanking why Proxy than I have with Phantom. The problem is he’s slightly too squishy/slow and slightly too visible to do anything well. And his sword damage has barely changed at all, he can still “one shot” as people claim (he can’t one shot, it’s fixed damage); it still does 90 damage and still does over 100 with chopped. The decrease in Chopped is superficial (and it was probably meant for the knives) dropping from 108 and 72 to 105 and 69.

The other problem is that despite being Recon he’s built more like an Assault. He doesn’t have any tagging power like RedEye or Vassili (or Aimee when they add her). Plus he lacks any real Assault abilities (no grenade, or super gun) so he can’t even Assault as well as an Assault. Even Pre-Nerf Phantom had no place on party compisition.

(spicyHarp) #85

[quote=“Grave_Knight;76834”]Eh. I’ve had easier time flanking why Proxy than I have with Phantom. The problem is he’s slightly too squishy/slow and slightly too visible to do anything well. And his sword damage has barely changed at all, he can still “one shot” as people claim (he can’t one shot, it’s fixed damage); it still does 90 damage and still does over 100 with chopped. The decrease in Chopped is superficial (and it was probably meant for the knives) dropping from 108 and 72 to 105 and 69.

The other problem is that despite being Recon he’s built more like an Assault. He doesn’t have any tagging power like RedEye or Vassili (or Aimee when they add her). Plus he lacks any real Assault abilities (no grenade, or super gun) so he can’t even Assault as well as an Assault. Even Pre-Nerf Phantom had no place on party compisition.[/quote]

Technically phantom will have a easier time flanking, due to cloak being far harder to spot with peripheral vision. I also don’t think the hp/speed is a problem at all, he can a fair bit of damage and isn’t exactly slow.

The only problem i have with phantom is that he promotes going solo, and offers nothing to the team. SD should at least give him some sort of spotting ability. But who needs that when you can go on a knifing spree rambo style, amirite?

(Kevin) #86

Not right, after all, Phantoms these days can be spotted and heard from a mile away and his so-called katana won’t work if you aren’t exactly right next to them right? If you want to play katana phantom these days you’d have to camp corners or be playing against amazingly bad people.

(Grave_Knight) #87

[quote=“spicyHarp;76878”][quote=“Grave_Knight;76834”]Eh. I’ve had easier time flanking why Proxy than I have with Phantom. The problem is he’s slightly too squishy/slow and slightly too visible to do anything well. And his sword damage has barely changed at all, he can still “one shot” as people claim (he can’t one shot, it’s fixed damage); it still does 90 damage and still does over 100 with chopped. The decrease in Chopped is superficial (and it was probably meant for the knives) dropping from 108 and 72 to 105 and 69.

The other problem is that despite being Recon he’s built more like an Assault. He doesn’t have any tagging power like RedEye or Vassili (or Aimee when they add her). Plus he lacks any real Assault abilities (no grenade, or super gun) so he can’t even Assault as well as an Assault. Even Pre-Nerf Phantom had no place on party compisition.[/quote]

Technically phantom will have a easier time flanking, due to cloak being far harder to spot with peripheral vision. I also don’t think the hp/speed is a problem at all, he can a fair bit of damage and isn’t exactly slow.

The only problem i have with phantom is that he promotes going solo, and offers nothing to the team. SD should at least give him some sort of spotting ability. But who needs that when you can go on a knifing spree rambo style, amirite?[/quote]

Yeah, but he still takes a long time to flank around where as Proxy, even if they do see me flank by the time they can catch up to stop me I’ve already thrown down a couple of mines and blasting an Aura in the head with a shotgun.

(Duke) #88

On the flanking discussion: I was playing phantom on Bridge today against a very hefty team (in a pub) that prevented us from entering the final objectives’ building. After two minutes of failed attempts, I rolled Phantom and used my cloak to flank and hide as enemies passed by. I proceeded to make 2 gauntlet runs in a single life. I was aided on the second run by a friendly Redeye who smoked the main entrance and allowed me to pass all the enemies unharmed.

I am usually terrible with phantom, but I had a mission for him. If there is a nearby firefight, his auditory giveaways are null. His flanks require thought and his sword requires precision and patience. His playstyle is not like his personality anymore. Wait for enemies to start openfire before attempting to backstab or they WILL hear you. Also, when I am spotted in 1v1, I will cloak with my gun out and stand still while they randomly spray me, not expecting me to stand still. When my cloaks runs out or their magazine does, I’ll begin my usual strafing SMG fire. They’ve expending pointless bullets and now you have the upperhand.

Play smart!

(spicyHarp) #89

[quote=“Grave_Knight;76926”]
Yeah, but he still takes a long time to flank around where as Proxy, even if they do see me flank by the time they can catch up to stop me I’ve already thrown down a couple of mines and blasting an Aura in the head with a shotgun.[/quote]

Proxy is ~10% faster, that doesn’t make as much difference as staying undetected, even if it doesn’t happen every time. And if he gets spotted, he can soak up damage and reposition.
The rambo knifing was mostly meant as a joke, and katana isn’t half bad. Get the timing down and you should be fine. Just don’t try to RMB everything, it won’t work.

(Merci1ess) #90

[quote=“spicyHarp;77078”][quote=“Grave_Knight;76926”]
Yeah, but he still takes a long time to flank around where as Proxy, even if they do see me flank by the time they can catch up to stop me I’ve already thrown down a couple of mines and blasting an Aura in the head with a shotgun.[/quote]

Proxy is ~10% faster, that doesn’t make as much difference as staying undetected, even if it doesn’t happen every time. And if he gets spotted, he can soak up damage and reposition.
The rambo knifing was mostly meant as a joke, and katana isn’t half bad. Get the timing down and you should be fine. Just don’t try to RMB everything, it won’t work.[/quote]

Well the way it is now… You shouldn’t RMB anything besides afks.

For the cloak and shield, it’s just plain terrible. I’ll take ~10% faster in exchange anyday along with a shotgun (longer ranged Katana), mines and the engineering skill.

(spicyHarp) #91

[quote=“Merciless;77205”]
For the cloak and shield, it’s just plain terrible. I’ll take ~10% faster in exchange anyday along with a shotgun (longer ranged Katana), mines and the engineering skill.[/quote]

Yeah, well, you know, thats just, like, your opinion, man.
The point is phantom is still viable, but a rework would be nice.

(Grave_Knight) #92

[quote=“Merciless;77205”][quote=“spicyHarp;77078”][quote=“Grave_Knight;76926”]
Yeah, but he still takes a long time to flank around where as Proxy, even if they do see me flank by the time they can catch up to stop me I’ve already thrown down a couple of mines and blasting an Aura in the head with a shotgun.[/quote]

Proxy is ~10% faster, that doesn’t make as much difference as staying undetected, even if it doesn’t happen every time. And if he gets spotted, he can soak up damage and reposition.
The rambo knifing was mostly meant as a joke, and katana isn’t half bad. Get the timing down and you should be fine. Just don’t try to RMB everything, it won’t work.[/quote]

Well the way it is now… You shouldn’t RMB anything besides afks.

For the cloak and shield, it’s just plain terrible. I’ll take ~10% faster in exchange anyday along with a shotgun (longer ranged Katana), mines and the engineering skill.[/quote]

Depends. If you’re fighting a light merc and if you have chopped. Most mercs two LMB can kill but with light mercs you can one shot anyone with RMB and if you have chopped you can one shot anyone up to Vassi. RMB is also worth using against Rhino. If you have chopped you can RMB, RMB to down him and without just RMB, LMB, LMB. But that’s the quality of the sword and has no baring on Phantom’s abilities (cause right now he’s weak with no position in team composition).

(neverplayseriou) #93

@Grave_Knight are u serious? Rmb is close to impossible to actually hit a moving target with…

(Someordinaryguy) #94

@sensitiveJellyfish

True, with the slower turn speed compared to LMB attack RMB is only useful on:
A)Immobile targets (people arming C4, Vassilis, people trying to help someone up, repairing EV/objective etc.)
2)People walking backwards
3)Rhino
4)People in corners
5)AFK

Of course every now and then I’ll get a lucky hit on a bunnyhopping Aura but it’s rare (on the other hand I got a double kill with Cricket Bat as Sparks on Aura and Skyhammer near HS)

(Grave_Knight) #95

That’s why you don’t announce yourself before you strike. If you can get them before they even know you’re there why bother with multiple strikes?

(neverplayseriou) #96

@Grave_Knight yeah because they totally can’t hear me coming…

(Someordinaryguy) #97

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lACDJVKV1no How it feels to play Phantom with cloak

(Grave_Knight) #98

Not announcing you’re coming means turn off the fucking cloak if they’re not near the firefight. That is something you can do, you know… And if they are near the firefight than what are they going to hear? Bullets, more bullets, and even more bullets? Also, not running is a thing. If you’re close enough where they are going to hear you and not running isn’t an option, you could always stab them with bullets…

(neverplayseriou) #99

@Grave_Knight yea u’ve clearly played phantom…

(Someordinaryguy) #100

Not announcing you’re coming means turn off the fucking cloak if they’re not near the firefight. That is something you can do, you know… And if they are near the firefight than what are they going to hear? Bullets, more bullets, and even more bullets? Also, not running is a thing. If you’re close enough where they are going to hear you and not running isn’t an option, you could always stab them with bullets…[/quote]

Then what’s the point of the cloak ? You can as well sneak as other mercs and flank without being hidered by the constant ringing and badly nerfed katana