Well when I played a game called battlefield heroes you had the commando, the class could go fully invisible untill it got within a certain range of somebody. Would that be something that SD could implement for Phantom (remove his damage absorbtion)?
Was Phantom overnerfed ?
Someordinaryguy
(Someordinaryguy)
#42
He’s supposed to be annoying, be a distraction for groups and a danger for lone wolf plus a high-risk, high-reward character
neverplayseriou
(neverplayseriou)
#43
Just purchased him, grinding for credits during school takes to long so I decided to put some money into the game 
Adam1
(Adam)
#45
[quote=“Amerika;74492”]
He was never melee focused.[/quote]
Really @Amerika… Really?! You were around in closed beta bro… How can you say such a thing?
Merci1ess
(Merci1ess)
#46
Phantom wasn’t even OP before the nerf… Hell yeah he was overnerfed.
I think alot of those who were whining about Phantom were low level people. People who Phantom would call “Scrubs”. Once you knew how to leap… Phantom was done. You hear him… You leap… You win. Get slashed once… Leap… Win. The “Scrubs” outweighed those who knew how to play the game. Which was SD’s big mistake. I heard that they weren’t listening to pro players’ suggestions. Usually when you want to balance your game, you listen to the players that know how to play your characters. It’s the logical thing to do because scrubs will become better and better with time. They’ll learn how to counter.
I played Phantom not too long ago. I do good with him but I can just do better with any other merc. What was bad for Phantom back then is now 10x worst today. I’m talking about playing with the Katana here. Phantom is advertised with the Katana. On his cards, trailer, pictures… everywhere. I know people say that the Katana isn’t the only way! I know that but if I wanna play with a gun 90% of the time, I’ll use someone like Fragger who comes with a better gun, more hp and a couple of grenades. So, now that the second swing has been completely ruined, the only option I have when not striking an afk player is using my primary swing which is a 2 slash kill on everyone except for Rhino. Now, I’ve tried killing Auras, Proxies and Sparks with this swing… What I say to myself when I approach them or pretty much any merc when I’m about to strike is: “Please be blind, please be deaf and please be clueless about leaping.”. If they can do any of that? Chances are I’m a dead man. I need to switch to my gun in order to have a chance which, for me, ruins the whole point of playing Phantom. At some point, I wanted to take the advice of a brilliant soul that once said: “Do not go head on. Flank!”. I came out of my spawn in the map Chapel. Went invisible before crossing the street because I wanted to get into that garage type passage. Waited until the little animation was done of course before exposing myself. Turns out the only thing I’ve accomplished was painting the street with blood and brain matter when a Vas had shot me once in the body then in the head. Showing how useful Phantom’s cloak really is.
So Phantom will be decent if you play against people who have no clue of what they’re doing. I mean at this point, you don’t even need to know how to leap. If you aren’t completely deaf, you’ll manage and Phantom will be an easy kill.
neverplayseriou
(neverplayseriou)
#47
@Merciless agreed, just got my phantom and I’m already seeing some newbs saying that he will get a nerf or that I was cheating…
The newbs still think he’s way to op cause they can’t notice teammates right behind them being chopped to pieces lol
spicyHarp
(spicyHarp)
#48
[quote=“Merciless;75515”]Phantom wasn’t even OP before the nerf… Hell yeah he was overnerfed.
I think alot of those who were whining about Phantom were low level people. People who Phantom would call “Scrubs”. Once you knew how to leap… Phantom was done. You hear him… You leap… You win. Get slashed once… Leap… Win. The “Scrubs” outweighed those who knew how to play the game. Which was SD’s big mistake. I heard that they weren’t listening to pro players’ suggestions. Usually when you want to balance your game, you listen to the players that know how to play your characters. It’s the logical thing to do because scrubs will become better and better with time. They’ll learn how to counter.[/quote]
Because phantoms totally cant long jump to catch up to you. /s
And phantom is a pub merc, as he never offered anything to the comp scene. People were complaining because there is literally nothing you can do to stop him. Because he had armor and half invisibility, he was hard to track, had extra health, and the katana can deal 108 damage with no effort. Not to mention the lack of weapon spread, thus making walljumps especially effective with melee phantom.
Almost all high damage weapons have a risk/reward ratio as i explained a few posts ago.
Phantom Pre-patch had nothing to stop him, 6 seconds on the cloak meaning you can always fight with the extra armor, no turn limitations and long damage window meant that he could deal massive damage with the katana with no effort.
And no, you get hit by the katana, you are 2 shot from the kek 10 away from seeing the respawn screen most of the time.
Just because you are bad with phantom/haven’t seen a good phantom doesn’t mean hes balanced.
Merci1ess
(Merci1ess)
#49
[quote=“spicyHarp;75523”][quote=“Merciless;75515”]Phantom wasn’t even OP before the nerf… Hell yeah he was overnerfed.
I think alot of those who were whining about Phantom were low level people. People who Phantom would call “Scrubs”. Once you knew how to leap… Phantom was done. You hear him… You leap… You win. Get slashed once… Leap… Win. The “Scrubs” outweighed those who knew how to play the game. Which was SD’s big mistake. I heard that they weren’t listening to pro players’ suggestions. Usually when you want to balance your game, you listen to the players that know how to play your characters. It’s the logical thing to do because scrubs will become better and better with time. They’ll learn how to counter.[/quote]
Because phantoms totally cant long jump to catch up to you. /s
And phantom is a pub merc, as he never offered anything to the comp scene. People were complaining because there is literally nothing you can do to stop him. Because he had armor and half invisibility, he was hard to track, had extra health, and the katana can deal 108 damage with no effort. Not to mention the lack of weapon spread, thus making walljumps especially effective with melee phantom.
Almost all high damage weapons have a risk/reward ratio as i explained a few posts ago.
Phantom Pre-patch had nothing to stop him, 6 seconds on the cloak meaning you can always fight with the extra armor, no turn limitations and long damage window meant that he could deal massive damage with the katana with no effort.
And no, you get hit by the katana, you are 2 shot from the kek 10 away from seeing the respawn screen most of the time.
Just because you are bad with phantom/haven’t seen a good phantom doesn’t mean hes balanced.[/quote]
Did you try longjumping to catch up to someone once they’ve done it?
I’m a good enough player to know what I’m talking about. Just because you don’t enjoy playing Phantom doesn’t mean he’s balanced either. I’d love to talk to you about me seeing good Phantoms… but I can’t. Cause people hardly play him. Must be because he’s balanced.
Yes you’re right. You get hit by the Katana and you’re 2 shots from the Kek-10 away from seeing the respawn screen… It sounds so easy and yet I hardly see anyone play as Phantom and do this genius of a trick. If I do see Phantoms they usually all get trashed. Mostly because you don’t get the chance to swing at someone. Not with the jet sounds your cloak is letting out. If you wanna do good with Phantom nowadays you need to play 90% Kek-10. Like I said, what’s the point when I can just hop on Fragger, get a better weapon, more hp and 2 grenades?
Someordinaryguy
(Someordinaryguy)
#50
[quote=“Merciless;75515”]Phantom wasn’t even OP before the nerf… Hell yeah he was overnerfed.
I think alot of those who were whining about Phantom were low level people. People who Phantom would call “Scrubs”. Once you knew how to leap… Phantom was done. You hear him… You leap… You win. Get slashed once… Leap… Win. The “Scrubs” outweighed those who knew how to play the game. Which was SD’s big mistake. I heard that they weren’t listening to pro players’ suggestions. Usually when you want to balance your game, you listen to the players that know how to play your characters. It’s the logical thing to do because scrubs will become better and better with time. They’ll learn how to counter.
I played Phantom not too long ago. I do good with him but I can just do better with any other merc. What was bad for Phantom back then is now 10x worst today. I’m talking about playing with the Katana here. Phantom is advertised with the Katana. On his cards, trailer, pictures… everywhere. I know people say that the Katana isn’t the only way! I know that but if I wanna play with a gun 90% of the time, I’ll use someone like Fragger who comes with a better gun, more hp and a couple of grenades. So, now that the second swing has been completely ruined, the only option I have when not striking an afk player is using my primary swing which is a 2 slash kill on everyone except for Rhino. Now, I’ve tried killing Auras, Proxies and Sparks with this swing… What I say to myself when I approach them or pretty much any merc when I’m about to strike is: “Please be blind, please be deaf and please be clueless about leaping.”. If they can do any of that? Chances are I’m a dead man. I need to switch to my gun in order to have a chance which, for me, ruins the whole point of playing Phantom. At some point, I wanted to take the advice of a brilliant soul that once said: “Do not go head on. Flank!”. I came out of my spawn in the map Chapel. Went invisible before crossing the street because I wanted to get into that garage type passage. Waited until the little animation was done of course before exposing myself. Turns out the only thing I’ve accomplished was painting the street with blood and brain matter when a Vas had shot me once in the body then in the head. Showing how useful Phantom’s cloak really is.
So Phantom will be decent if you play against people who have no clue of what they’re doing. I mean at this point, you don’t even need to know how to leap. If you aren’t completely deaf, you’ll manage and Phantom will be an easy kill.[/quote]
As I’ve said many times Phantom is as effective as the enemy team is clueless. And sadly butthurt kids who can’t adapt are the maority of every game community. Even Phantom roll-call “said” how to counter him.
I admit: katana 2s “kill period” and damage reduction were imbalanced but everything else was fine. @sensitiveJellyfish Bloody butthurt kids who camp with Vaseline in spawn 24/7 am I right (I suggest kek 10 and katana with chopper perk loadout, so you can 1xm2 stab them)
spicyHarp
(spicyHarp)
#51
[quote=“Merciless;75529”]
Did you try longjumping to catch up to someone once they’ve done it?
I’m a good enough player to know what I’m talking about. Just because you don’t enjoy playing Phantom doesn’t mean he’s balanced either. I’d love to talk to you about me seeing good Phantoms… but I can’t. Cause people hardly play him. Must be because he’s balanced.
Yes you’re right. You get hit by the Katana and you’re 2 shots from the Kek-10 away from seeing the respawn screen… It sounds so easy and yet I hardly see anyone play as Phantom and do this genius of a trick. If I do see Phantoms they usually all get trashed. Mostly because you don’t get the chance to swing at someone. Not with the jet sounds your cloak is letting out. If you wanna do good with Phantom nowadays you need to play 90% Kek-10. Like I said, what’s the point when I can just hop on Fragger, get a better weapon, more hp and 2 grenades?[/quote]
Are we talking about Pre-patch or Post-patch? The point is that the skill/risk/reward ratio Pre-patch was very unbalanced. I went godlike with multiple aces by simply mashing space bar and RMB whenever someone got close. I never enjoyed the braindead playstyle, and I’m glad SD completely destroyed that playstyle.
Post-patch phantom is very much viable as I pointed out. Now with the LMB turn limiter removed, it adds a whole new playstyle. Do I RMB and hope it connects, or should I go for a easy LMB but deal less damage? Should i even go for melee, and just use my kek?
Imo SD did a great job removing the unfair tactic, but phantom is now a weak merc nobody want to use. I feel like a rework is very much needed, but as of right now phantom is certainly viable.
spicyHarp
(spicyHarp)
#52
[quote=“Someordinaryguy;75532”]
As I’ve said many times Phantom is as effective as the enemy team is clueless. And sadly butthurt kids who can’t adapt are the maority of every game community. Even Phantom roll-call “said” how to counter him.[/quote]
Phantom shines against clueless enemies. But against others it is still very good if you play your cards right. Most of the time people will search for a phantom if they hear him. Hide somewhere unexpected, flank them, start the fight with a few bullets in his face. hes already at a disadvantage because you can consistently flank with the cloak.
Sure a fragger can do it too, but from my experience phantom is far better at flanking. Say you cross the road on chapel as phantom, not everyone is going to notice you passing by, and those who do will try to challenge you head on. Always assume someone saw you and now wants to chase you down.
But phantom is still weak compared to what other mercs offer, and a little gimmicky.
Nevertheless he isn’t the trash tier merc everyone think it is.
neverplayseriou
(neverplayseriou)
#53
@Someordinaryguy actually a kira was crying that Phantom needed a nerf, a redeye called me a phaggot and a skyhammer called me a cheater 
And 20% extra melee dmg ftw :3
Amerika
(Amerika)
#54
[quote=“Adam;75495”][quote=“Amerika;74492”]
He was never melee focused.[/quote]
Really @Amerika… Really?! You were around in closed beta bro… How can you say such a thing?[/quote]
I was in closed beta for a couple days before the move to Steam. And, in his released form, he’s never been melee focused. I’ve pointed this out before that lots of characters aren’t anything like what they were in the past. Fragger didn’t even exist nor did Thunder. They both came from splitting up another merc.
We are talking about released mercs here. I’ve read in the past he didn’t even have a cloak, had no gun and had a lunge attack. And from people I’ve spoken with, depending on the build, he was either extremely OP or barely functional.
Kevin1
(Kevin)
#55
[quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;75544”]@Someordinaryguy actually a kira was crying that Phantom needed a nerf, a redeye called me a phaggot and a skyhammer called me a cheater
And 20% extra melee dmg ftw :3[/quote]
Not sure if you are playing post-patch phantom, unless they increased Chopper back to 20% from 15% when I wasn’t looking.
LANshark
(LANshark)
#56
[quote=“spicyHarp;75533”][quote=“Merciless;75529”]
Did you try longjumping to catch up to someone once they’ve done it?
I’m a good enough player to know what I’m talking about. Just because you don’t enjoy playing Phantom doesn’t mean he’s balanced either. I’d love to talk to you about me seeing good Phantoms… but I can’t. Cause people hardly play him. Must be because he’s balanced.
Yes you’re right. You get hit by the Katana and you’re 2 shots from the Kek-10 away from seeing the respawn screen… It sounds so easy and yet I hardly see anyone play as Phantom and do this genius of a trick. If I do see Phantoms they usually all get trashed. Mostly because you don’t get the chance to swing at someone. Not with the jet sounds your cloak is letting out. If you wanna do good with Phantom nowadays you need to play 90% Kek-10. Like I said, what’s the point when I can just hop on Fragger, get a better weapon, more hp and 2 grenades?[/quote]
Are we talking about Pre-patch or Post-patch? The point is that the skill/risk/reward ratio Pre-patch was very unbalanced. I went godlike with multiple aces by simply mashing space bar and RMB whenever someone got close. I never enjoyed the braindead playstyle, and I’m glad SD completely destroyed that playstyle.
Post-patch phantom is very much viable as I pointed out. Now with the LMB turn limiter removed, it adds a whole new playstyle. Do I RMB and hope it connects, or should I go for a easy LMB but deal less damage? Should i even go for melee, and just use my kek?
Imo SD did a great job removing the unfair tactic, but phantom is now a weak merc nobody want to use. I feel like a rework is very much needed, but as of right now phantom is certainly viable.[/quote]
I agree that he was imbalanced before he was nerfed but i think they used a flamethrower where they should have used a lighter. I don’t want them to remove a way to play a merc, some games i just want to mindlessly swing and not think. If that was no how the merc was ment to be played (or should be played) fine. let the people who want to mindlessly swing do so (and be somewhat effective at it).
Someordinaryguy
(Someordinaryguy)
#57
[quote=“Kevin;75629”][quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;75544”]@Someordinaryguy actually a kira was crying that Phantom needed a nerf, a redeye called me a phaggot and a skyhammer called me a cheater
And 20% extra melee dmg ftw :3[/quote]
Not sure if you are playing post-patch phantom, unless they increased Chopper back to 20% from 15% when I wasn’t looking.
[/quote]
@Kevin Yeah you’re right sadly (with 20% I’d be able to 1 m2 Bushwhacker, Fletcha and SBonez 
)
@sensitiveJellyfish Try to troll Vaselines, it’s a lot of fun (just love to see them jump around and shoot at everything with machine pistols)
neverplayseriou
(neverplayseriou)
#58
@Kevin @Someordinaryguy
I was pretty sure the excellent operative stated 20% more melee damage but I would have to check later today.
XavienX
(XavienX)
#59
[quote=“Amerika;74668”]How does his shield, the one they advertised and he’s supposed to have, defeat the purpose of what they said he’d be? It’s called Refractive Armor. Not invisibility cloak. He’s not supposed to be invisible entirely. I do agree he’s too easy to see right now but only just barely.
If it makes you feel better a guy who should know better (level 36) just said I only pulled off the score I just did because I was playing Phantom.
[/quote]
That was the reason why the Refractive Armor threw people off because people have different opinions on it. I mean really, a not entirely invisible cloak now being used as a bullet sponge…
Someordinaryguy
(Someordinaryguy)
#60
[quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;75742”]@Kevin @Someordinaryguy
I was pretty sure the excellent operative stated 20% more melee damage but I would have to check later today.[/quote]
@sensitiveJellyfish It’s 15% since the m2 attack does normally 90dmg, with chopper it’s 103,5 (115% dmg), checked with buddy on empty server