Yep, place them somewhere so they act as great big markers, “heh, run up this van, jump onto that ledge”. Too obvious. The fun for a lot of jumpers is finding out what can be done and what areas can be reached.
Besides, there are already several vehicles parked precisely for that reason. Vehicle placement should ideally be done for game-play reasons, to provide cover. If you’ve got a vehicle parked against a wall to enable a route, but then find for map balance purposes it should be somewhere else nearby, you either add another vehicle, which may provide too much cover, or move the vehicle and lose access to that route.
If access to a route were determined by a jumping mechanic, especially one that required timing and precision, you could develop routes and game-play altering placement of vehicles separately.
Didn’t think so to be honest…
One day I’d like to see your arguments to defend you position that strafe jumping “makes sense”, but I think that’s beside the point: you care about the functionality first, regardless of the impact on the look and feel of the game, while I don’t think any game mechanism is so essential that it can be allowed to break the consistency of the game.
So let my try to spin this a different way… Is there a middle ground somewhere that could satisfy both sides? As I understand it, the main point of strafe jumping is to be able to achieve a higher speed to get from A to B faster and jump higher / longer or is there something else I missed? I’ll go out on a limb and assume that’s close enough, couldn’t that be achieve in a different manner that does not involve hopping around like a mad bunny on steroids, or is that part of the appeal as well? Let’s say there was an “advanced sprinting” feature that required repeated keyboard / mouse inputs to be timed very precisely to activate and sustain a faster sprinting speed, a mechanism that is easy to understand but challenging to master, much like strafe jumping but with no actual jumping involved (it could still lead to an enhanced jump, but there would be no jumps in the run-up), would that seem suitable?
I hope we’re no so tied up in “the way things were” to not be able to come up with a scheme that would provide the desired end result with a proper level of challenge without having to mimic the exact feature with all its warts.
Maybe to show what this trickjumping is all about, it would be good to watch somebody who has mastered this. So watch wesp, especially watch the last 4 minutes of the video.
Now that is Quake 3 Defrag, a mod.
Enemy-Territory, has also the same bug as Quake3, but it only allows to accelerate downwards. Also the spread of the gun is increased by fast mouse movement.
The acceleration is depending on how well you move the mouse. Its not random. Also the movement keys you press have a big impact. Lastly it depends where is the next wall, where do you want to get too. http://www.trickingq3.com/Tutorials/Strafing_Tutorial.html
This movement has a high skill gap, as it is not obvious - it is not something you could learn in reality.
SMART from Brink was no where near this. It was a based on triggers placed by a map designer. If a new system is to replace that movement it would need at least the same quality, like water, you can perfectly simulate water movement on all surfaces - no need for triggers - maybe not at a high resolution.
OK, but can it be fun AND realistic? Look at skate/snow boarding or parkour, clearly realistic movement (done by human beings without breaking the laws of physics) yet people seem to have a lot of fun doing it…
you’ve never bunnyjumped irl? the way to do it is jump on one leg twice, changing the leg you jump on for each double-jump. the momentum you obtain is quite fenomenal. bad for the knees, tho.
yeah, the movement in mirrors edge still felt kind of contrived and mechanical, versus the fluidity of the q3 approach which always felt more likely to yield routes that the map maker hadnt considered.
Realism… this term should be banned when we talk about an arcade fps/fast fps.
Gameplay of these kinds of FPS should never be impacted by some realistic components. If I want realism, I launch Red Orchestra 2 or ARMA 3.
[ul]
[li]it’s fun[/li][li]has a skill curve[/li][li]offers something to improve and to master[/li][li]feels smooth and improves the movement flow[/li][/ul]
Of course I care about the functionality the most. What else is more important? A pretty animation which is correct in terms of realism?
I have no idea what you mean with your second sentence.
Without going into the details of all the trickjump techniques basically correct.
Nah, you don’t really strafe jump infight.
[QUOTE=Djiesse;465134]Let’s say there was an “advanced sprinting” feature that required repeated keyboard / mouse inputs to be timed very precisely to activate and sustain a faster sprinting speed, a mechanism that is easy to understand but challenging to master, much like strafe jumping but with no actual jumping involved (it could still lead to an enhanced jump, but there would be no jumps in the run-up), would that seem suitable?
I hope we’re no so tied up in “the way things were” to not be able to come up with a scheme that would provide the desired end result with a proper level of challenge without having to mimic the exact feature with all its warts.[/QUOTE]
For sure it would! That’s the central point of the whole movement discussion. It doesn’t need to be the exact system of the former games (although I think it would be a lot easier to implement, instead of trying to replace it, because it will be very difficult to come up with a similar skilled system).
[QUOTE=Erkin31;465160]Realism… this term should be banned when we talk about an arcade fps/fast fps.
Gameplay of these kinds of FPS should never be impacted by some realistic components. If I want realism, I launch Red Orchestra 2 or ARMA 3.[/QUOTE]
Yep, absolutely right. Djiesse should really think about this once again.
Can we please put that one to bed right now, no one hops about mad strafing everywhere during a firefight… no one, so please stop using that as an excuse plskthx
Some people only like to track horizontally.[/QUOTE]
Sorry guys but I never said anything about in-fight movement, was talking about “locomotion” the whole time
True that I’ve had no in-game exposure to it, but from what I’ve seen of strafe jumping it was pretty clear it was not something you would do in the middle of a fight…
Anyways, I knew my opinion would not be widely shared and I’ll be happy to agree we disagree
In the end, SD’s devs will make the call and hopefully they can come up with something that will please you guys without looking out of place with the visual style and theme of the game…
[QUOTE=Erkin31;465160]Realism… this term should be banned when we talk about an arcade fps/fast fps.
Gameplay of these kinds of FPS should never be impacted by some realistic components. If I want realism, I launch Red Orchestra 2 or ARMA 3.[/QUOTE]
The game should still react in some real fashion. There is a difference between a game acting real and a game acting like a simulator.
Let’s burry this myth once and for all. Yes, it was original found as a bug, because its effect was unintentional, but it has never been fixed. (Running on +20 years.) To this day, it’s still present in the ID Tech engines, f. ex. it is part of ‘Rage.’ Games as ET and ETQW used this effect to its advantage and maps were designed around it. So it is an effect you are inteded and encouraged to use! And it also happens to be one of the coolest and most fun (and hardest to master) features of gaming history. No way I would still be playing ETQW if this feature was not present and/or the maps were not designed around it! Shooters without the feature is not nearly as fun for me and have no lasting appeal. With it, I always feel that I can come back for more (fun.) And the fun is mastering and discovering new routes and jumps (and using them in combat, to surprise your opponent.) All the objectives and shooting is really secondary to it (but important.) A well implemented trickjumping system is at the very core of my definition of a playworthy first person shooter. You (SD) got it right in the past. And sure, it is not obvious how to do it, but the fundamentals can be thought in ten minutes, then you just have to master it, which can take years if you are a newbie. Which is a good thing!
When you first pick up the guitar, perhaps you can pluck a few strings and put your fingers on the fretboard, but nobody is expecting you to start playing “Stairway to Heaven.” But if you keep at it, you learn and get better, and over time you will be able to play it. And the more you learn, the better you get, the more facets you discover, more enjoyable it becomes. Same thing with trickjumping.
