Vassili, that cancer

[chamoiseeIncrease]

The sniper in TF2 needs a long time to be efficient. You have to wait between shots and prepare your shooting. In DB you can fire 4-5 bullets/second, or more, and running everywhere while firing relatively precisely. I already saw a single sniper killing a 3 mercs wave in less than 10 seconds.

[Eox]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;23790”]The gibbing on headshot is ALSO not an issue

The issue I have and a lot of others do, is that the only real way to deal with Snipers is to go Sniper.

Without one on your team to counter their’s they basically have free reign on your team mates.

That is an issue, and the counters to dealing with aren’t that effective. Like getting in close range to deal with him when a bodyshot basically allows him to kill you in less than half a second without headshots. Or the Focus Augment negating flinch, making it harder to throw off his aim and prevent him from killing you.

Until Phantom gets in the game Snipers will be an issue, how good the Sniper is shouldn’t be the only risk they have to deal with. Because then you end up with skilled players who can not be shut down, and the game basically stops.[/quote]

Have you tried Kira ? Her weapons are precise, and she’s very fast, so she won’t be an easy target for a sniper.

[Nail]

jump sniping and scoped shooting while moving are the stupidest things in DB, even surpassing xignpoop. Anyone who has ever shot a real scoped rifle will tell you any movement screws the view and because you have such a lessened fov. you’ll lose your target and have to reaquire, but a bunch of Alpha testers whined and bitched and moaned and it was added

[PogS1]

Like snipers during world war 2, snipers are there to inspire fear but in reality, they are not that deadly.

[Ardez1]

The sniper in TF2 needs a long time to be efficient. You have to wait between shots and prepare your shooting. In DB you can fire 4-5 bullets/second, or more, and running everywhere while firing relatively precisely. I already saw a single sniper killing a 3 mercs wave in less than 10 seconds.

Hyperbole will not improve your argument btw. Big difference between 4-5 shots per second and killing 3 mercs over 10 seconds. That implies that the sniper fired anywhere from 40 to 50 shots to kill 3 mercs. lol

[Akselmo]

jump sniping and scoped shooting while moving are the stupidest things in DB, even surpassing xignpoop. Anyone who has ever shot a real scoped rifle will tell you any movement screws the view and because you have such a lessened fov. you’ll lose your target and have to reaquire, but a bunch of Alpha testers whined and bitched and moaned and it was added

I don’t think this game is meant to be realistic at all (nor it shouldn’t, that would be boring and there are games like that already.). It’s a fun, fast paced shooter, and the sniping system it now has fits it perfectly.

Don’t really understand the hate against snipers anyway, there’s always whine against them in every game.

Also if the player isn’t doing objectives, blame the player, not the class or in this case, character.

[chamoiseeIncrease]

[quote=“Ardez;23862”]
Hyperbole will not improve your argument btw. Big difference between 4-5 shots per second and killing 3 mercs over 10 seconds. That implies that the sniper fired anywhere from 40 to 50 shots to kill 3 mercs. lol[/quote]

That implies that his rifle can fire very quickly and the player don’t have to be very accurate since he could fire shot after shot. With those powerful weapons that’s enough to kill many people in short time, even if you are noob or poor skilled.

[chamoiseeIncrease]

Also if the player isn’t doing objectives, blame the player, not the class or in this case, character.

Totally agree, but that’s not the problem
I just think something meke them too dfficult to counter. But as I said, maybe when all the mercs will be playable this will be ok.

[Ardez1]

I will say this ~ The current system of sniping increases the skill cap for ALL players in a match. The system people are requesting would ONLY increase the skill cap required to play sniper.

Does this mean that Vassili is too easy to be good with, or does it mean that people don’t want to play around it?

My opinion ~ I think that people would rather not play around Vassili. This is because, as I have stated before, that you need to proactively avoid him. The reason why this is such a change from other mercs is because you reactively avoid them. There are telltales and warnings before most explosives go off, but this isn’t true for a sniper bullet to the head. Avoiding Vassili relies on unknowns.

What needs to change?

Well, you could go one route and raise the skill cap needed to play Vassili, which would reduce the number of Vassili players and for some, the fun of playing him. Your other option is to make it more avoidable. How? Add a telltale. A simple lasersight(similar to TF2) could be added that gives away where Vassili’s crosshair is looking when he is scoped. This could, in theory, help players avoid him or at least get an idea of where he is looking/targeting.

Overall: I think it is fine the way it is now, but maybe add some reactive prevention to the sniper in addition to the existing proactive prevention.

[Ardez1]

[quote=“Ardez;23862”]Also if the player isn’t doing objectives, blame the player, not the class or in this case, character.

Totally agree, but that’s not the problem
I just think something meke them too dfficult to counter. But as I said, maybe when all the mercs will be playable this will be ok.
[/quote]

This isn’t a quote of something I said btw… This was @chirpyStory

[Amerika]

The sniper in TF2 needs a long time to be efficient. You have to wait between shots and prepare your shooting. In DB you can fire 4-5 bullets/second, or more, and running everywhere while firing relatively precisely. I already saw a single sniper killing a 3 mercs wave in less than 10 seconds.

See, this is just ignorance. First off, no gun can fire that many rounds per second. The PDP is the only somewhat quickfiring weapon and it’s, by far, the weakest sniper rifle. The FEL IX is also weak but for the opposite reason. It requires the scope to go down between shots which is very slow, is prone to having that click but nothing comes out bug and barely does more damage than what the Moa can do that actually matters (both take 2 body shots to kill or 1 head shot on any merc except Rhino).

And yes, if people are running in a straight line and not doing anything to prevent being shot they will get quickly shot. The same happens to players that do the same thing when a Fragger or Skyhammer or anybody comes around the corner and they don’t react.

[Amerika]

jump sniping and scoped shooting while moving are the stupidest things in DB, even surpassing xignpoop. Anyone who has ever shot a real scoped rifle will tell you any movement screws the view and because you have such a lessened fov. you’ll lose your target and have to reaquire, but a bunch of Alpha testers whined and bitched and moaned and it was added

DB isn’t real life. This is a fast paced videogame. I think merc balance had a lot more to do with the decision than people ‘whining’.

[chamoiseeIncrease]

Your other option is to make it more avoidable. How? Add a telltale. A simple lasersight(similar to TF2) could be added that gives away where Vassili’s crosshair is looking when he is scoped. This could, in theory, help players avoid him or at least get an idea of where he is looking/targeting.

That may be a good idea. And it would force snipers to hide their line/dot, as in TF2, and move their aim instead of waiting at corners for people to come.

But proactive avoid is just a part of the problem I think. The problem is that for now snipers are very hard to counter. Grenades/sticky bombs/airstrikes are often unusable (too far, even for Nader), Arty is not useful too because snipers are very often protected by roofs. MG/SMG are uneffective at long range (sniper will kill you before you kill him). So they can camp at their spot and never move.

[Nail]

some reality must be involved, game is based on approximated real life, physics are real, but sure, everyone jump snipes
http://forums.warchest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13402&d=1428014498

[Akselmo]

[quote=“Ardez;23876”]
Add a telltale. A simple lasersight(similar to TF2) could be added that gives away where Vassili’s crosshair is looking when he is scoped. This could, in theory, help players avoid him or at least get an idea of where he is looking/targeting.[/quote]

That’s actually a really good idea. In Battlefield 4, sniper rifle scope lenses make this weird glimmer that you can see from far away, knowing that someone is camping in the bushes. You probably don’t notice it when you look quickly at the sniper, but if you stare for a while it’ll show up.

Just a tiny laser dot that pops up on the wall the sniper is aiming at could help a lot, TF2 has this.

[Ardez1]

[quote=“Ardez;23876”]Your other option is to make it more avoidable. How? Add a telltale. A simple lasersight(similar to TF2) could be added that gives away where Vassili’s crosshair is looking when he is scoped. This could, in theory, help players avoid him or at least get an idea of where he is looking/targeting.

That may be a good idea. And it would force snipers to hide their line/dot, as in TF2, and move their aim instead of waiting at corners for people to come.

But proactive avoid is just a part of the problem I think. The problem is that for now snipers are very hard to counter. Grenades/sticky bombs/airstrikes are often unusable (too far, even for Nader), Arty is not useful too because snipers are very often protected by roofs. MG/SMG are uneffective at long range (sniper will kill you before you kill him). So they can camp at their spot and never move.[/quote]

This will be fixed when more mercs are released that do counter him. There is no reason to nerf him now just to NEED to buff him later. If you can learn to play against him as is you will be significantly better at the game and better later when his direct counters are released.

[chamoiseeIncrease]

I agree.
For now it’s very annoying to see 2 or 3 players trying to dislodge a single sniper.
I didn’t know the ability of the future mercs, but according to what I read they could indeed counter snipers. Now that makes me impatient for their release (is that expression correct ? ^^’)

[Kroad1]

[quote=“Nail;23889”]some reality must be involved, game is based on approximated real life, physics are real, but sure, everyone jump snipes
http://forums.warchest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13402&d=1428014498[/quote]
i will repeat it for you

no one gives a fuck about how real something is, argue as to why it’s a bad GAMEPLAY mechanic

[brawnyJester]

The sniper in TF2 needs a long time to be efficient. You have to wait between shots and prepare your shooting. In DB you can fire 4-5 bullets/second, or more, and running everywhere while firing relatively precisely. I already saw a single sniper killing a 3 mercs wave in less than 10 seconds.

So you don’t understand how sniping works(with the MOA) in DB and you don’t understand sniping in TF2.

Both the MOA and the default sniper rifle in TF2 have similar rate of fires. The sniper can kill with 1HK headshots the majority of classes excluding the Soldier/Heavy. In the soldier’s case only a slight charge is needed and most the time a soldier isn’t going to be full HP so a charge isnt neccessary.

A good sniper in TF2 can definitely rattle off headshot after headshot only an idiot actually hardscopes and waits for a charge.

[Nail]

why ? it won’t get removed, I stated my opinion and why I had that opinion, I feel no need to argue anything