Vassili, that cancer

(Fleshpound) #21

Wait,but Aimee will get Semi-Auto Rifles and Snipers. Like RedEye. So both of them will be annoying by that quote

(globalGale) #22

The issue here that in a fast paced game like this a 0ttk is not supposed to be allowed, we have to work for our shots, while’st the sniper, even tough it could be tough, can just click on you and you’re dead

(watsyurdeal) #23

That’s not quite it either, instant kill isn’t the issue, but the lack of risk other than the player’s own skill or competence is.

Skill needed to use something shouldn’t be the only risk, there needs to be some sort of control on the victim’s end as well, something they can exploit to give them an advantage.

(Ardez1) #24

That’s not quite it either, instant kill isn’t the issue, but the lack of risk other than the player’s own skill or competence is.

Skill needed to use something shouldn’t be the only risk, there needs to be some sort of control on the victim’s end as well, something they can exploit to give them an advantage.[/quote]

Serpentine!!!

There are definitely things you can do to reduce your risk and some things that can increase the vassili’s risk. Explosives(nades, airstrikes) will scare/kill most vassilis off of their shot. A solid burst on target can throw his aim enough too.

Lots of jumping/superjumping, direction changes will reduce your risk. It is the same principal about not going full speed around corners at head level(shotgunners delight). You have to get into the pattern of not being predictable and NEVER hesitating.

The biggest time to be scared is before he makes himself known. That is when you do the preventative movements as mentioned above. You fight back once you spot him. The real trick is to survive that first shot. After that it gets easier.

(brawnyJester) #25

Skill needed to use something shouldn’t be the only risk, there needs to be some sort of control on the victim’s end as well, something they can exploit to give them an advantage.

Use movement options.

Dont be a retard.

Stay out of his sight lines and flank.

Flinch him by moving and shooting.

Literally any of those work on pub vassilis the vast majority of which don’t hit anything for 90% of the game.

(watsyurdeal) #26

That’s not quite it either, instant kill isn’t the issue, but the lack of risk other than the player’s own skill or competence is.

Skill needed to use something shouldn’t be the only risk, there needs to be some sort of control on the victim’s end as well, something they can exploit to give them an advantage.[/quote]

Serpentine!!!

There are definitely things you can do to reduce your risk and some things that can increase the vassili’s risk. Explosives(nades, airstrikes) will scare/kill most vassilis off of their shot. A solid burst on target can throw his aim enough too.[/quote]

That’s a bit too dependent on the merc you’re using, and if he has the anti flinch augment, if you land a solid shot you’ll still die to fairly decent Sniper.

Lots of jumping/superjumping, direction changes will reduce your risk. It is the same principal about not going full speed around corners at head level(shotgunners delight). You have to get into the pattern of not being predictable and NEVER hesitating.

True but that’s a bit extreme just to avoid being shot by a Sniper, my issue with it is if I have found him, and started to shoot at him, he’s already messed up. Flinch should make it harder to nail me, but with that augment, it doesn’t. It needs to be removed from Vasilli’s set of possible loadouts.

The biggest time to be scared is before he makes himself known. That is when you do the preventative movements as mentioned above. You fight back once you spot him. The real trick is to survive that first shot. After that it gets easier.

If he lands the headshot, fair enough, but when he only manages to bodyshot me, then I should have a reasonable chance, but the damage dealt by sniper rifles means his machine pistols will shred people, even without landing headshots.

As I said before in another thread, it’s not that I feel Vasilli is overpowered, but I do feel he doesn’t have enough risks to consider.

The only risk Vasilli seems to have, whether facing him or playing him, is if you’re trash, you’re useless, if you’re great, you’re basically going to stalemate the game as long as you’re alive. And that’s entirely up to the Sniper, you as the victim doesn’t have much control, you should be able to outplay him if you nail him before he spots you, or if you get within close range to finish him, but in both cases right now it’s almost too easy for Vasilli to get out alive.

I guess that’s just how it seems since we don’t have Phantom yet, who will be the BEST counter to Snipers, as he can get behind enemy lines just like the Spy in TF2.

(gunsmoke) #27

Being rather new to this game, I haven’t found snipers to be a problem except for taking support spots away from the team. If you get shot by a sniper, find cover. I love the zero spread jumping head shots. While I’d never try one, its always entertaining to see in the kill recap.
I am a little disappointed at auto-gibs rather than auto kills. It seems enough for a sniper to immediately kill a teammate, but to gib as well is a bit op.

(Amerika) #28

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;22886”][quote=“Amerika;22874”]If you take away Vassili’s mobility you then turn him into a class that doesn’t contribute anything to the game. In competition it hurts the class a ton since every person who is successful that plays Vassili is constantly moving towards getting angles on shots in hopes of hitting a head to get an early advantage on a push. In a pub, if you remove mobility, you end up with even more people sitting in the back of the map contributing almost nothing to the game.

Vassili was already nerfed once and it was reverted because it took away from the classes ability to contribute significantly compared to the other classes for both competitive and pub play.

This is a fast paced game and making a class sit on it’s ass and line up shots rather than be mobile then the class quickly becomes useless.[/quote]

His ability to shoot while scoped in and jumping has nothing to do with his mobility

There’s no reason to allow Vasilli to jump while already scoped in and land his shots, it’s a bullshit tactic, because you literally can not hit him while he is behind cover, and he can jump up and down constantly and be in a perfectly advantageous spot that not everyone can deal with, hell even Fraggers sometimes can’t.

The purpose of sway, and the purpose of adding “jumping cancels zoom”, is to force a Sniper to commit to a position. By committing, he accepts that he will likely get shot and be punished if he fails to kill his target. By allowing people to strafe in out of cover with no penalty, or to allow them to basically hop and try to get potshots on people, is basically the Sniper not having to taking any risks whatsoever.

Is it overpowered? No, the term is unfair, because again, as it’s been pointed out so many times, Snipers are the only ones with the ability to instantly kill, and gib, in one shot, no cooldown, no using the ability at the right time, it is a constant power with a high skill requirement, and that should come with high risk, which is not currently there imo. Other than the player’s own ability, Snipers do not have to make the same commitment other mercs do.[/quote]

What? It has nothing to do with mobility? Have you ever played the class. Being able to do some crazy angle shots by moving/jumping to hit them is the only way the class becomes something you’d want on your team. And very few people who play DB right now can do that consistently in a pub let alone in a competitive match.

You want a sniper designed for a different game. This isn’t a sit still and hold a position game. You move forward. It’s objective based. People playing Vassili who do not move forward constantly and try to be offensive are not of much value to their team with this type of game.

So I just don’t agree with your unfair assessment. It’s the perfect design for a game where players are supposed to be offensive and push forward (even on defense sometimes) and not dig in and hold ground.

The Vassili players who do well have all kinds of disadvantages because they aren’t sitting in the back of the map so I don’t know why you’d say they have none. When I play as him I am constantly in the front and pushing for angled shots and sometimes I get owned because he just doesn’t have much HP or movement speed.

(elegantRoyalty) #29

the mindless tedious campers and the arty spam are all that is wrong with this game imho , would be nice if they got kicked back to cod but i think were stuck with these parasites.

(Ardez1) #30

Players will be weeded out at time goes by because of the high skill cap, that AND the players sick of it will graduate to competitive/different gamemodes. When execution is released the game will be played very differently.

There will always be people who use those mechanics in poor/unfair ways. Removing the content isn’t the solution.

(elegantRoyalty) #31

Players will be weeded out at time goes by because of the high skill cap, that AND the players sick of it will graduate to competitive/different gamemodes. When execution is released the game will be played very differently.

There will always be people who use those mechanics in poor/unfair ways. Removing the content isn’t the solution.[/quote]

i dunno removing the camper rifle would solve the problem for me :wink: ive just got back from using vasilli for the first time and i feel dirty , they really could tighten it up and make it so you have to aim. the hitbox for it seems to be twice the size of the characters and it feels like you can shoot early or late and still hit. i had been thinking there were a lot of aimbots but having tried it its just almost impossible to miss with the thing.

the arty spam just needs a slow own on the CD , it serves a useful and necessary function , of digging out entrenched defence but its on such a fast CD now its just spammed all over the place

(Ardez1) #32

Players will be weeded out at time goes by because of the high skill cap, that AND the players sick of it will graduate to competitive/different gamemodes. When execution is released the game will be played very differently.

There will always be people who use those mechanics in poor/unfair ways. Removing the content isn’t the solution.[/quote]

i dunno removing the camper rifle would solve the problem for me :wink: ive just got back from using vasilli for the first time and i feel dirty , they really could tighten it up and make it so you have to aim. the hitbox for it seems to be twice the size of the characters and it feels like you can shoot early or late and still hit. i had been thinking there were a lot of aimbots but having tried it its just almost impossible to miss with the thing.

the arty spam just needs a slow own on the CD , it serves a useful and necessary function , of digging out entrenched defence but its on such a fast CD now its just spammed all over the place
[/quote]

Per skyhammer, the cooldown is over a minute. So limit of less than 15 airstrikes per match(or per half if you are in stopwatch) per skyhammer. It really comes down to how many they have, not the cooldown of the ability.

(ThiagoScalax) #33

Plz people stop the QQ vassili is fine

(Ardez1) #34

I would suggest constructive replies to counter points made by other players rather than the “Stop crying about it. Nothing is wrong.” approach. :slight_smile: @ThiagoScalax

(flameChicken) #35

I seriously do not see anything wrong with Vassili, he’s working as intended and staying back, sniping heads away while covering advancing teammates. He only has one ability and his SMGs aren’t that very damaging so he has very little options for close quarters when push comes to shove. If people are just whining because his headshots are one hit kills, don’t bother… there are far more powerful mercs that will make you cry for your mother.

(watsyurdeal) #36

If you’ve read any of the posts you’d see that’s not the issue

(Gwarh) #37

[quote=“GregHouseMD;22869”]I’m more puzzled by how snipers can take sustained .50 fire to the chest and still have time to aim, shoot, and hit. It’s very odd. I don’t disagree playing against snipers is frustrating as all hell, either. It’s just like, oh, yeah, here’s this guy you can’t really fight back against, and if you go into a certain area you’re dead and can’t be revived.

On the other hand, having a good sniper on your team is great. Emphasis on good. It beats letting an enemy Rhino dominate your entire team.[/quote]

The main reason I play Vasili is for his Sensor Ball. That thing is a BIG help to your team. I also play an aggresive sniper so I use that rifle that has the higher rof, rarely scope in, and use my Machine Pistol and Knife allot.

(avidCow) #38

The MP makes him so much more of a hassle to deal with.

(GregHouseMD) #39

[quote=“Gwarh;23574”][quote=“GregHouseMD;22869”]I’m more puzzled by how snipers can take sustained .50 fire to the chest and still have time to aim, shoot, and hit. It’s very odd. I don’t disagree playing against snipers is frustrating as all hell, either. It’s just like, oh, yeah, here’s this guy you can’t really fight back against, and if you go into a certain area you’re dead and can’t be revived.

On the other hand, having a good sniper on your team is great. Emphasis on good. It beats letting an enemy Rhino dominate your entire team.[/quote]

The main reason I play Vasili is for his Sensor Ball. That thing is a BIG help to your team. I also play an aggresive sniper so I use that rifle that has the higher rof, rarely scope in, and use my Machine Pistol and Knife allot.[/quote]

It sure is! Guiding Kira’s laser onto red doritos is great!

(Parmenion) #40

The real issue with snipers is the no revive head shot, it’s so easy to HS with vassili i don’t understand why we can’t revive.
It’s already frustrating to get OS by a camper and we must wait full time with no chance of revive.

Plus the firerate is way too fast. The sniper should be close to TF2 for a good balance.