Vassili in the wrong hands... an idea at a merc tree progression.

(watsyurdeal) #21

There’s nothing you can do about bad players playing Vasilli, or Sparks, or whoever.

Fact is you shouldn’t be punishing everyone because a few scrubs can’t grasp the bigger picture.

(XavienX) #22

If you lock them, then when they unlock it, for example level 15, they’ll be level 15 Vassili noobs who have played Dirty Bomb for 200 hours. How ironic is that? There’s some things all experienced have to deal with it when it comes to noobs. I mean, weren’t we all noobs before?

(Yes) #23

How about just remove Vassili? :neutral:

But seriously, why the fuck do people who can’t aim for shit buy him? It makes no sense to me. “I can’t even land a shot when I spray and pray, I think the sniper character is perfect for me!”

(Potato_Ladder) #24

[quote=“Clown;97731”]How about just remove Vassili? :neutral:

But seriously, why the fuck do people who can’t aim for shit buy him? It makes no sense to me. “I can’t even land a shot when I spray and pray, I think the sniper character is perfect for me!”[/quote]

Makes you wonder why movies and books never portrays other military class as important and skillful as Recon(Sniper).

(Matuno) #25

[quote=“Clown;97731”]How about just remove Vassili? :neutral:

But seriously, why the fuck do people who can’t aim for shit buy him? It makes no sense to me. “I can’t even land a shot when I spray and pray, I think the sniper character is perfect for me!”[/quote]

Because they feel better camping one spot and not dying as often as they would on close range, and they think they did good with a 1:1 kill/death ratio, 9 kills, while everyone else has 20+ kills

(Lumi) #26

You misunderstood me. Never would it be that much time. Nevertheless, when you finally access Vasilli, you might still lack the sniping knowledge, but you’ll know all about the maps, ammo cache locations, objectives, sniping points (as you’ve been sniped before), choke points, etc.

In the current iteration a newcomer buys vassili and is dealing with learning all of the above, coupling with the idea of standing still as a sniper is the way to go. They need to see other snipers moving and understand first that DB is a fast paced shooter. Even when sniping. Jumping straight into Vassili and looking at DB from the scope just removes all of that awareness that many players need to learn early on.

Sniping and actually learning how to use Vassili is just a small part of experience, yet is impossible to learn it with the lack of the much more vital movement, map and objective experience.

(Lumi) #27

[quote=“Matuno;97748”]

Because they feel better camping one spot and not dying as often as they would on close range, and they think they did good with a 1:1 kill/death ratio, 9 kills, while everyone else has 20+ kills[/quote]

Worst is that the snipers we’re talking about have 2/10 or worse at the end. That isn’t helping anyone… And then you have the occasional one who comes complain on the forums that people shouldn’t be moving as much as he can’t snipe them and that the devs should fix that…

(DMaster2) #28

Hell no.

Well i do think i did fairly well getting a 1/1 k/d ratio with Vassili if my team was getting spawnkilled and almost all the others in my team got a negative k/d (happened quite a few times actually).

(KattiValk) #29

Devs can’t patch player stupidity. If xXxJoexXx (I still have no idea what these x’s even mean) the 1337 CoD player wants to snipe then Joe the scrub can snipe to his/her heart’s content. You can’t restrict everyone’s fun for the sake of making getting the merc a green wants a right pain to get and expect people to enjoy that change.

(Lumi) #30

Dude, have you heard of something called comma?

But I have to disagree, you like some others have said that this measure will remove fun. I disagree. If you play Vassili and you get your ass kicked because you have no clue of what to do, that can’t be fun. Removing that, to play something where you’ll actually manage to do something, that’ll add fun! Furthermore, your premise that devs can’t patch player stupidity isn’t correct. You can always implement stupid proof mechanics.

(sentimentalDime) #31

@Lumi I have a suggestion, if you can’t cope with stupid players, don’t play pub matches.

(Lumi) #32

Ehm, have you played comp? Stupid players are everywhere… Especially that one player with 10h who just reached level 5 and decided to go comp…

(Feley) #33

Vassili is probably first merc choice for all new players, because he cost 30k, and is interesting to play.
Now, people start playing Vassili in early stages of their gameplay, and they of course don’t know how to use HBS, or how to snipe right, because DB is fast paced.
Thats probably reason some people leave Dirty Bomb for good…

I like the Lumi’s idea in general, but I feel that it would be better to make Vassili 50k like other people stated.

Also instead of getting credit bonuses from leveling up (or reduce credit bonuses and make it so every 4 levels (including 2nd) people get 5000 credits), people could get an objective specialist (perhaps Turtle on release, because he would be very good for doing objectives, but his abillity wouldn’t be spammed like others).

That would reduce usage of Vassili by lots… (sry for my english :tongue: )

(acrobaticBudgie) #34

You can’t apply your definition of fun on others. I sometimes play Vaseline, I’m not great with him but the satisfaction of landing an awkward headshot makes up for the times I’m gunned down without a kill (key part coming up so I’ll call it out with italics) for me. I couldn’t give a stuff about k/d ratios and pub matches give me a chance to try things out.

I still play objectives, I try to use my sensor for best effect and I switch mercs if my team needs it but again, it’s fun for me.

So a new player puts a few hours into their new favourite game and a feature opens up to them after they’ve tripped over level 5 and what you’re saying is that they shouldn’t touch it … until when? When they’ve got 10 more hours? When the mystical numbers indicate they’re good enough?* Should they contact you to ask permission?

  • Now that’s a can of worms, isn’t it? The numbers don’t reflect the times I’ve been the only player on my side pressing the objective because I get gunned down all the time as the rest of my team are hiding. They don’t reflect my flanking the enemy and drawing attention so my team can nip in and plant the C4. They don’t reflect my using Rhino as a bullet sponge in front of whoever’s delivering the EMP canister. Numbers only tell part of the story.
(Grave_Knight) #35

Eh, no. The only sort of lock I want is to have certain PUB stompers level locked. Namely Phantom and Rhino as they’re the two mercs low level players have the hardest time dealing with. Another thing that might be nice is a difficulty indicator, something to tell people Vassili is not easy to play but Bushwhacker is.

(Lumi) #36

@turnfalken

As you say for you it’s fun, but for others it isn’t. Arguments based on opinions are mute for both parties sake, pro or con. So why bring it up?

Regarding the level 5 player going comp, I get the reasons as to why, but it still doesn’t change the fact that I won’t play comp because of the presence of both idiots in pubs and comp. At least in pub I can leave if it’s too importantly affecting the match.

Now the issue of raising the minimum level for comp entry is another one that doesn’t belong in this thread, yet I’ve always said that level 5 is too low. It was much better before they lowered it imo. But all these tactics to populate comp that DB applied, have only turned comp into a worse quality experience, nothing more.

Regarding the numbers, you’re going quite on a rant there. Seems like there is some underlying grief that you have and aren’t sharing here. Anyway, numbers isn’t all. Experience is. And experience is gained by playing and playing translates to time. And a good measure of time played is level. Now you do with this information what you want.

(DMaster2) #37

[quote=“Lumi;97768”]
Dude, have you heard of something called comma?

But I have to disagree, you like some others have said that this measure will remove fun. I disagree. If you play Vassili and you get your ass kicked because you have no clue of what to do, that can’t be fun. Removing that, to play something where you’ll actually manage to do something, that’ll add fun! Furthermore, your premise that devs can’t patch player stupidity isn’t correct. You can always implement stupid proof mechanics.[/quote]
That’s called trial and error. People prefer to make a mistake on their own rather than listening to advices (especially young people). People want to buy Vassili and realize they suck with him? Let them do it. They’ll learn and change merc or they’ll get better (eventually) with him. But you can’t tell people “no you can’t do that” because you only make them angry and accomplish nothing.

(Lumi) #38

I agree with the difficulty indicator being a good start.

You’re right when it’s a couple of people making that mistake. But when it is the majority it just means there was a wrong game implementation. Otherwise it wouldn’t be that trap which it currently is. Everyone thinks that going for the sniper is the wisest choice and everyone gets screwed. Like it or not, sometimes people need protection from themselves. That’s why you can’t just go buy a gun without a license. Or would you like people to learn by themselves?

(acrobaticBudgie) #39

You brought up the subject by stating that people would have more fun by playing differently. Why should I play for others? Are they playing for me? Do you ever play for others?

You don’t, do you. You quit if it’s a poor pub match and don’t play comp; you don’t play for others to have fun so why should I or anyone else? Your position appears to be, “people don’t play like I want and waaaaah” but I’d like to think you’re better than that.

Hardly a rant, I’m explaining my point with examples rather than simply stating something isn’t right because I don’t like it. It’s a metric that no game I’m aware of has implemented properly; as someone who prefers to play objectively so that the team wins rather than worry about my personal score, I’m ok with it.

I believe you’ve used a syllogistic fallacy*, in this case comparing experience with time played.

I agree that level is a good indicator of time spent in game but that’s all. You can be level squillion but if all you do is run around in circles occasionally spamming the fire button before claiming that your team are all idiot noobs and rage quitting, you’re not what I’d consider an experienced player.**

  • e.g. All dogs have four legs. Nelly the elephant has four legs. Therefore Nelly is a dog.
    ** Except in CoD, where that makes you a leet Prestige 10 xXx_SniperAce_xXx.
(DMaster2) #40

Why are you making real life comparison to a purchase choice in a friggin video game? No one is going to die if you purchase Vassili instead of Proxy, at worst you may have a sitting duck in a pub team (at best it’s on the other team).
And the fact that a lot of people pick Vas as first purchase is an issue how exactly? Also DB ultimate starter pack has it so everyone that will download the game and purchase it will have it, so it’s only natural they’ll try it.
I find nothing wrong with people playing what they want to. That is also why i utterly hate when ass*oles starts a vote kick just because a low level player is playing badly (but trying to help). Let them be and let them do the mistakes so they can learn in a natural way. Back when i started i did the most basic thing you shouldn’t do when you start an account, purchasing equiment cases instead of saving credits for mercs. I purchased 4-5 cases then i learned my mistake after my fifth consecutive lead.