Useful Trinket Proposal + New Case Idea!

(TheOmniscient) #101

@boerhae said:
It’s a nice idea, but some of the specific ideas would be annoying. Granted, they’re toggleable, but I think the idea of the snowman-headshot thing would be better than a fortune cookie.

In general though, I think having special kill effects would be a nice addition to trinkets. It’s not something profound, there are examples in other games.

Nobody is really wrong in this discussion. The better question to ask is how this would be implemented. Would it be one trinket, or would they all have kill effects?

And what about other effects like killstreaks? I know there are badges that the player can see, like Ace, but what about telling the server? It could be as simple as putting a little picture of the trinket in the killfeed with a number next to it. (And if it’s not a trinket that shows in the killfeed, just the number.)

This discussion has become sort of a ‘fun vs skill’ war, and that’s not really necessary. I’d say there should be a balance of both. Most games have multiple ‘scenes’ to them. Take for instance, Super Mario 64. It’s a classic game, a fun challenge, and that’s just what is to some. On the other hand, there’s the speedrunning community who take it very seriously and practice for hours to beat their old times. And that’s a single-player example, but there are multiplayer ones like Smash, etc. Arguing about whether or not the game is supposed to be fun or skill based is a waste of time. That decision is up to the player.

Back on track though. Adding visual effects (like snow head explosion on kill) to trinkets couldn’t hurt anything, could it? As long as they were given an on/off setting, and were client-sided, I can’t see a problem. We just need to find out what’ll work. I just think it’s fairly harmless as long as it’s not out of control.

Sorry if I said something that’s been said already.

Was thinking all trinkets new and old would get unique effects. Some like fortune cookies and fireworks would be on unstoppable sprees, that way it doesnt get old xP

(Meerkats) #102

@bgyoshi said:
Candy Crush
Clash Royale
Angry Birds
I’m willing to bet all of these game destroy your entire list in revenue. I know that Candy Crush at some point was pulling 10mil per day in revenue.
I really don’t care to argue this, but just some cursory research reveals at it’s peak, King Games was pulling 2.6B USD across all their products. You are claiming Candy Crush alone was making nearly 4B USD per annum. King Games is making significantly less these days. RIOT games pulled 1.6B USD last year, and as they only have one product, it’s safe to say all their revenue derives from LoL, be it apparel, conventions, etc.

But all that aside…

Would you ever purchase anything from Candy Crush, knowing what you know and knowing that you can just play Dirty Bomb? Would an individual playing Candy Crush purchase anything Dirty Bomb related?

Answer to both questions? No. You are conflating two disparate groups of people; there is very little crossover between the two. They are essentially different universes that don’t really compete with each other.

It’s like saying the Ford F150 is more successful than the Toyota iQ. Probably? I don’t know. I really don’t care enough to look it up, but either way, it’s not really an equivalent comparison; the people who buy big trucks aren’t going to buy some tiny economobile.

Dirty Bomb, however, is competing directly against games like CS:GO and Overwatch.

And I explicitly stated games with cash shop, as that is the model of Dirty Bomb. As in games designed to continually make money throughout their lifespan. I don’t think Undertale is really making that much money anymore.

Again, there are exceptions, but it is no coincidence top games on twitch are also some of the most profitable, and of those, many have thriving competitive communities.

(ThunderZsolt) #103

@n-x said:
And here comes the point. How the game was advertized and what is actually delivering. The game was advertized as “hardcore, back to the roots, good team play necessary”. While these are mostly buzz words, it still attracted players who were exactly looking for that and who wouldnt have started DB, if it were adertized with: “Collect 100 different trinkets. Get a rare outfits for your favorit merc. Take part in monthly wacky events!”

But because DB was advertized in one way but has developed in another way, you now have 2 extremes in your game. And while one side will probably never be able to convince the other, there are players in the grey area in between. And the “competitive” or maybe “try hard” side needs those players, because without competitive minded players there is no competition. So they need those players get their reward in playing the game and improving and not by mindless grind/RNG to get some bling.

This sums up the whole 4 pages long conversion.
(I would agree, insightful and like as well this post if I could)

“Hardcore” gamers only care about the gameplay and improving in skill.
The kids novadays have maximum 5 minute attention span, you have to attract them with shiny stuff to stay.

I think SD wants to focus on the core gameplay, but to be able to do that, they also need the casual players who buy the skins, because the hardcore playerbase is too small.
In the end, having more bling also benefits the hardcore players, because it allows SD to fund the servers. If you can disable it, it does nothing bad to hardcore players (boosts are another thing, I think it is a bad idea).
For example, I have seen very, and I mean very bad players using obsidian operative loadouts, they surely didn’t care much about getting gud.

I’ve made an observation during the new event:
Both the average level and the average skill level increased, (I’m playing DB for over a year now) because a lot of older players returned.
I don’t think they wanted the new skins, they were interested in integrating the new mercanary into their playstyle, finding strategies and trickjumps on the new map and maybe try this ranked season.

So I agree with @bgyoshi here, new content makes the players stay/return. What can you do without it?
Once you “got gud” you can pubstomp, or participate in competitions (work your way up to cobalt in ranked?). Pubstomping gets boring after a while, DB has very few tournaments, and ranked has its own problems (including the too small playerbase).

(bgyoshi) #104

@Meerkats said:

I really don’t care to argue this, but just some cursory research reveals at it’s peak, King Games was pulling 2.6B USD across all their products. You are claiming Candy Crush alone was making nearly 4B USD per annum. King Games is making significantly less these days. RIOT games pulled 1.6B USD last year, and as they only have one product, it’s safe to say all their revenue derives from LoL, be it apparel, conventions, etc.

You’re forgetting that Activision bought King Games for $5.9b specifically because CC was pulling almost a million a day. So yes I was off by a factor of 10, but, as of this month the game is making around $1.5m per day.

https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/

The point is that you don’t need competition to make the game popular and competition alone DOESN’T make a significant contribution to the popularity of the game. They could remove Ranked entirely and make casual matchmaking only, and the game wouldn’t drop a single point in popularity.

And as a point of interest, games like Undertale continue to make money on ancillary sales of merchandise, advertising, con spots, etc.

The game needs more stuff. There’s too much push on Ranked and not enough people care about it. Even if you made Ranked perfect, the casual players would be leaving en masse and the game wouldn’t have a real player base. There needs to be more focus on new content and repetitive new items to keep the casual crowd in the game while Ranked gets worked on.

(BloodySin) #105

To me both the arguments of “playing to develop skills” and “gaming is focused on competitive” are false, and I know I’m far from alone - it’s not by chance that the term “tryhards” was coined for gamers. Games are entertainment, after all.

The development of better skills over time (or not) is just a consequence of having fun playing a game, while the competitive scene in a game is in the end not much more than a niche inside the main thing. Even in games where everything fits as competitive, the lower ranks still work as the casuals and the high ranks as the actual competitive.

In the end, a competitive scene grows because of numbers and balance. If too few people are playing, little to no interest is generated with casuals that could go try it, and same if balance sucks. Right now Dirty Bomb is doing bad on both. There are few people playing competitive, the consensus seems to be that most matches are badly unbalanced, and casuals have pretty much no incentive to join. Earning more credits isn’t enough, nor are the really costly Ranked exclusives. I mean, it can take literally 100 matches to get enough points for a reward. How many casuals are really going to be up to bolstering Ranked numbers for that? Like it or not, Ranked needs casuals to grow and develop, to cement the base of the pyramid, but few want the extra stress without worthwhile returns.

(boerhae) #106

@BloodySin said:

@boerhae said:
Arguing about whether or not the game is supposed to be fun or skill based is a waste of time. That decision is up to the player.
But, just like you say the decision on fun vs. skill is up to the individual player, doesn’t the decision on whether discussing this is a waste of time or not rests on each one involved in the discussion… making it so calling it a waste of time based only on your personal opinion becomes, by your own standard, a waste of time in itself?

this is some next level shit i was not prepared for, i’ll see you in philosophy class

Yeah. It sort of is a waste of time. But SD will probably always go with whatever the most popular opinion is (wishful thinking somewhat), and I figure it’s worth chucking my opinion just in case. :wink:

(TheOmniscient) #107

Im not really sure what to say at this point myself, seems Bgyoshi and boer have it lockdown in the same line of philosophy, so I’ve little to add I haven’t already said atm xD

(SteelMailbox) #108

Oh no, a bit of fun in this game that is supposedly competitive yet not really? KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

In all seriousness it wouldn’t hurt I just don’t think the devs need to focus on something like that ATM. It’s more of a something for full release.

(ThinkItsClose) #109

I thought the salt shaker trinket idea suggested in the most recent dev video was fairly funny, i don’t care about trinket effects so long as they don’t take up the entire screen or induce seizures.

(TheOmniscient) #110

@ThinkItsClose said:
I thought the salt shaker trinket idea suggested in the most recent dev video was fairly funny, i don’t care about trinket effects so long as they don’t take up the entire screen or induce seizures.

Id prefer they let me continue to see what im trying to shoot or do aswell, lol