[Updated!] MOA and FEL-IX Balance changes from an actual snipers POV

[Xenithos]

~~~ I have scissors! ~~~
FEL-IX:

• Edit headshot damage multiplier to allow 170 damage headshots. FEL-IX damage will be 79/170
• Increase instagib-bar to 79.(people with 79hp or lower get instagibbed on headshot)
• Decrease mag size to 6.
• Fix the reported inaccuracy of the FEL-IX.
• Reduce recoil sway/change recoil pattern.

W-wait, the Fel9 is actually being inaccurate? I wasn’t just imagining it? Where was this reported at? I’d been feeling like all the times I aimed and shot with it, especially while moving despite their changes to snipers so that people should be able to move and snipe with them, the Fel9 seemed to be a tad weird bit off.

[Herr_Hanz]

[quote=“Xenithos;202372”][quote=“Herr_Hanz;32128”]
~~~ I have scissors! ~~~
FEL-IX:

• Edit headshot damage multiplier to allow 170 damage headshots. FEL-IX damage will be 79/170
• Increase instagib-bar to 79.(people with 79hp or lower get instagibbed on headshot)
• Decrease mag size to 6.
• Fix the reported inaccuracy of the FEL-IX.
• Reduce recoil sway/change recoil pattern.

[/quote]

W-wait, the Fel9 is actually being inaccurate? I wasn’t just imagining it? Where was this reported at? I’d been feeling like all the times I aimed and shot with it, especially while moving despite their changes to snipers so that people should be able to move and snipe with them, the Fel9 seemed to be a tad weird bit off.[/quote]

i never noticed anything, although i do remember some shots that hit even though i thought they werent headshots. but i have seen some people complain about it so i called it ‘reported inaccuracy’. if it was actually confirmed i wouldve called it ‘inaccuracy’.

the FEL-IX inaccuracy should be under the discussion part as well. since some people say it has it, and some dont.

---

waiting for dev response for the FEL-IX 170 headshot damage part.

@Ardez @Amerika @Eox what do you guys think?

[Dysfnal1]

I don’t like changing headshot multipliers for specific guns in games, the OW Widowmaker nerf really irked me, and in a game like dirty bomb, it would just drive me insane.

I have a proposed change.

1. Reduce PDP damage to 40 to be the same as the Grandeur. Adjust fire rate as needed. PDP and grandeur will still be set apart fairly well, as ADS is way better with the PDP and hip fire is way better for the Grandeur.
2. Make the Fel-ix a hard hitting, slow firing, semi automatic sniper, with 64 damage (80 damage on dibbed enemies) and a fire rate to make it relatively punishing to miss, but not as severe as the MOA.
3. OPTIONAL: remove Fel-ix from Aimee’s kit and replace with the MOA, also buffing the MOA to 79 damage. (if this is chosen, Fel-ix damage can be 60)

With my proposed changes, the PDP should be low risk, low reward, the Felix should be medium risk, medium reward, and the MOA should be high risk, high reward.

[Herr_Hanz]

@Dysfnal @Xenithos @FrostyVampire @JJMAJR @Watsyurdeal @Sneaky @BananaSlug @Jokder

i will be making a new thread, this time making the FEL-IX and MOA have the same damage, but with unique traits for different playstyles. as my 170 damage idea for the FEL-IX is the most needed for the FEL-IX, and that is probaly not going to happen, unless i get a dev response on my ideas in this thread.

[frostyvampire]

@Herr_Hanz
Just edit this post and add “[Updated]” to the title .-.

I don’t think giving MOA and FEL-IX the same damage is good. I like the FEL-IX dealing more damage. Just make MOA headshots do 160 damage, FEL-IX headshots 170 damage. MOA bodyshots 70 damage and FEL-IX bodyshots the same old 79 damage

[Herr_Hanz]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202459”]@Herr_Hanz
Just edit this post and add “[Updated]” to the title .-.

I don’t think giving MOA and FEL-IX the same damage is good. I like the FEL-IX dealing more damage. Just make MOA headshots do 160 damage, FEL-IX headshots 170 damage. MOA bodyshots 70 damage and FEL-IX bodyshots the same old 79 damage[/quote]

good idea on the updated thing.

the thing is that instagibbing probaly isnt going to be implemented by the devs, which means 160/170 headshot damage also cant happen. thats why i need the dev response. who can we call other than raziel and shoe? the more we call the faster the answer (i hope).

the only other thing is that we can nerf the FEL-IX/MOA to 60 damage, as a sort of middle ground. but i severely doubt that people will use a 120 damage sniper rifle when a 150 one is available.

EDIT: screw it. im suggesting a 120 damage felix. but it has insane mobility.

[frostyvampire]

So now you just nerfed the FEL-IX to complete garbage .-. Even PDP is better than this FEL-IX nerf

I liked the original suggestion more, with the 170 headshot damage FEL-IX. Just make MOA do 160 damage on headshot and then both guns can insta gib Aura and Sparks but FEL-IX can also 1 shot Thunder.

[Herr_Hanz]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202465”]So now you just nerfed the FEL-IX to complete garbage .-. Even PDP is better than this FEL-IX nerf

I liked the original suggestion more, with the 170 headshot damage FEL-IX. Just make MOA do 160 damage on headshot and then both guns can insta gib Aura and Sparks but FEL-IX can also 1 shot Thunder.[/quote]

Well. its the only thing i can come up with unless we make the FEL-IX an exact copy of the MOA, or allow instagibbing on low hp mercs.

@stayfreshshoe @RazielWarmonic @OneLetter do you think snipers should be able to instagib low hp mercs?

i just realized that mines and nades are allowed to instagib so im deleting my second suggestion, and going back to the main one (with the FEL-IX doing 170 damage)

[frostyvampire]

[quote=“Herr_Hanz;32128”]MAJOR NOTE: before making this list i didnt know the actual mechanics of instagibbing. i need to know the devs response to my suggestion of giving the FEL-IX 170 headshot damage, before i can say this is what is truly needed.

MOA:

[list]
[] Reduce damage to 70/140
[] Increase instagib-bar to 60. (people with 60hp or lower get instagibbed on headshot)
[/quote]

Like I already told you. There is no such thing as “insta gib bar”. Just change the damage to 70/160 else it won’t work.
If you make it 140 it will be insta gib only against players with 40hp or less (50 for Proxy/Aimee/Kira and 60 for Aura/Sparks), 160 will make it 60hp (70 for Proxy/Aimee/Kira and insta-gib for Aura/Sparks). It’s the only way to make the bar 60 and it won’t leave the MOA behind because it won’t be able to insta gib Aura/Sparks

Also same for FEL-IX, you have to increase headshot damage to 179 for it to work, else the bar will be 70hp

[quote=“Herr_Hanz;32128”]EDIT1:
Note: the damage values are all for Vassili, especially with the FEL-IX. That is because calculating the SNITCH for the FEL-IX would result in lower damage values as with my suggestion a rhino can be oneshot when tagged by a snitch. (170 damage x damage multiplier = RIP rhino) and the point of this thread is buffing the FEL-IX to set it apart from the MOA.[/quote]

Sorry I had to fix your grammar. “shotted” is not a word, it’s “shot”

[JJMAJR]

Uh… making the FEL-IX and the MOA deal the same amount of damage is a bit much. No matter how much extra mobility you would give the FEL-IX the MOA would either outperform the weapon, or the FEL-IX would outperform knives.

I suggest making the MOA deal 72 DMG so that it gets 144 damage headshots, (Fragger doesn’t get OHKO’ed from the weapon) and the FEL-IX would keep its current damage values so that it won’t fade into antiquity.

[Herr_Hanz]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202485”][quote=“Herr_Hanz;32128”]MAJOR NOTE: before making this list i didnt know the actual mechanics of instagibbing. i need to know the devs response to my suggestion of giving the FEL-IX 170 headshot damage, before i can say this is what is truly needed.

MOA:

[list]
[] Reduce damage to 70/140
[] Increase instagib-bar to 60. (people with 60hp or lower get instagibbed on headshot)
[/quote]

Like I already told you. There is no such thing as “insta gib bar”. Just change the damage to 70/160 else it won’t work.
If you make it 140 it will be insta gib only against players with 40hp or less (50 for Proxy/Aimee/Kira and 60 for Aura/Sparks), 160 will make it 60hp (70 for Proxy/Aimee/Kira and insta-gib for Aura/Sparks). It’s the only way to make the bar 60 and it won’t leave the MOA behind because it won’t be able to insta gib Aura/Sparks

Also same for FEL-IX, you have to increase headshot damage to 179 for it to work, else the bar will be 70hp

[quote=“Herr_Hanz;32128”]EDIT1:
Note: the damage values are all for Vassili, especially with the FEL-IX. That is because calculating the SNITCH for the FEL-IX would result in lower damage values as with my suggestion a rhino can be oneshot when tagged by a snitch. (170 damage x damage multiplier = RIP rhino) and the point of this thread is buffing the FEL-IX to set it apart from the MOA.[/quote]

Sorry I had to fix your grammar. “shotted” is not a word, it’s “shot”[/quote]

i was too lazy to remove the whole instagib bar sentence, but i did now.
and i fixed the grammar of that sentence.

[Dysfnal1]

@Herr_Hanz Fel-ix damage shouldn’t be 60, but 64, snitched targets would take 80 damage

[Herr_Hanz]

can somebody please make the FEL-IX do 170 damage to thunder?

[GatoCommodore]

i actually like the idea if FEL-IX become a Very Powerful 1-headshot kill to every merc with Aimee Snitch (not gibbed) but very slow to re-coc-ked

and MOA being the Faster Bolt Action and deals pretty nice damage to head (up to 110 since you can easily finish them with another bullet or a spray from )

[Herr_Hanz]

[quote=“sweetColumn;209064”]i actually like the idea if FEL-IX become a Very Powerful 1-headshot kill to every merc with Aimee Snitch (not gibbed) but very slow to re-coc-ked

and MOA being the Faster Bolt Action and deals pretty nice damage to head (up to 110 since you can easily finish them with another bullet or a spray from )
[/quote]

no. the PDP already does 100 damage per headshot. if you want to nerf MOA damage it will need around 130 headshot damage.

the FEL-IX is meh right now, but i would like to be able to kill thunders with one headshot.

[Thai-San]

If you really want the Fel-IX become a heavy hitting, all mercs one shot headshot kill weapon that it should have heavy downsides compared to the MOA so good snipers can’t just dominate whole teams.
I know you guys will hate that idea but if you really want it to insta headshot kill a thunder and headshot gib light mercs it should have only one shot per reload and a high scope-in time. Like this monster:

So:
80-90 dmg body
170-200 dmg head
1 bullet per reload with 14 in reserve (so 15 shots (therefor 15 guaranteed kills) in total)
3 sec reload time

And taking the piercing mechanic of DBs snipers you can easily destroy a push with one well placed shot. After you’ve fired you are forced to have a reload time which also somewhat forces you to relocate.

But even that would not be good for this game. Imho: No class should ever be killed by one-single-bodyshot if they are at full HP. The beauty of Dirty Bomb and it’s gunplay is that there is a high ttk and real firefights are possible instead of the “He saw you first so you die first, no matter what”-way that other games currently seem to go. And that is something I don’t want to let go…

Also @Herr_Hanz please never let weapons have the ability to shoot through walls in this game. It would kill DB for so many players. If even a cover (the only thing that kinda keeps you alive against good snipers) doesn’t work anymore then what does? How will anyone survive once a sniper knows you are somewhere?
It’s just like jump shots. It would give snipers a huge advantage on top of their already owned range and damage advantage. Back when jump shots existed the only people who would somewhat be able to counter a jumping sniper behind cover were other snipers and you can’t call that balance without feeling like a liar.

Sorry, I know you don’t want this to be a discussion about jump shooting but it was such a dark age in Dirty Bombs history that I had to point it out. And Bullets piercing walls would start another maybe even worse age of sniper domination. It isn’t even about skill, it’s just like CS where you have to learn the spots to shoot through, know in which directions the usual walkways of enemies are and aim for head level. Done. You are an invincible killing machine now.

Feel free to disagree with me but I had to burst that little sniper comfort bubble you had going here with some insight of the receiving end of a sniper barrel

[Herr_Hanz]

@ThaiSan the only thing i want right now is the FEL-IX being able to do 170 headshot damage while still doing 79 bodyshot damage.

and also improved recoil. and the weapon c*cking bug fixed.

[GatoCommodore]

@ThaiSan well youre right, i dont want any insta-gib in the game. I also just learned how to use the Revivr gun by spamming it.

the thing is MOA is too good compared to PDP (which the recoil right now is like kicked by a donkey) and FEL-IX.

i wish there are special trait to the rifles
for example:

MOA has explosive bullet. deals less damage than Fel-IX but has small AoE damage to slowly damage nearby deployables like ammo station or the health station
(After All, MOA was based on antitank rifle that shoots 20mm rifle rounds that now used to shoot Helicopter and slow moving aircraft).

but then it will move to the explosive spamfest decay.

[Drac0rion]

A fellow sniper main here.

Obviously everyone has their own ideals of how the game balance should be in this game, so I often get to read some rather interesting ideas.

Instagib isn’t fun for anyone, but if mid combat revives become problematic there are always better ways to nerf it. If anything should be able to instagib, it would be the high damage explosives, as those don’t run off your default primary ammunition and the explosives have quite a cooldown.(Not including sticky bombs or nade launcher here.)

Scopes need an upgrade overall imo. It’s 2020 for crying out loud and we only have one reflex sight on Blishlock? Grandeur is also considered as a sniper rifle and that ironsight is atrocious.
So I do think each SR should have their specific scope, but they could all definitely use an upgrade. The tiny black dots in the middle aren’t exactly bad, but they ain’t great either, I could probably perform just as well without the black dots included on the scopes.

Personally I’d actually like to have bolt action SR bodyshots nerfed. I mean you really aren’t going to do anything if you’re a 80hp merc and take a bodyshot from FEL-IX.

just imagine…
[spoiler]I like your MOA damage suggestions, but I’d like FEL-IX bodyshot damage to be dropped to 70 with a 2.5x headshot multiplier(175).
Now both bolt actions are too similar in damage.
Next the FEL-IX could be changed to be more like the Anti-Material rifle shown by @ThaiSan.

In the video, that character takes his sweet time reloading. If the reload speed for such a sniper would be well balanced, FEL-IX could be a single shot sniper that would shoot just a little slower than MOA.
So if MOA RPM is 50, then FEL-IX RPM could be 100 with the reload. (Shotguns have 90-95 RPM for comparison). The ammunition could be set a fixed number. Start 18, max 35?

Now the snipers would be rather different from each other, but why pick FEL-IX over MOA?
Cause FEL-IX can now jumpshot again . Elitist snipers would then main FEL-IX and master jumpshots, while every other average sniper could confidently spam the MOA.
After this I could rename myself to MLG420QuickscopeBunny. I mean, a guy can dream, right?[/spoiler]

[GatoCommodore]

@Dragonis actually that idea making the only sniper rifle in the game that has the ability to jump shot but only hold one bullet sounds about right.

but if that were to happen the secondary would have to be Caulden/ Deagle/ Mp400
Best secondary for the best sniper loadout.