[Updated!] MOA and FEL-IX Balance changes from an actual snipers POV

(Herr_Hanz) #1

MAJOR NOTE: before making this list i didnt know the actual mechanics of instagibbing. i need to know the devs response to my suggestion of giving the FEL-IX 170 headshot damage, before i can say this is what is truly needed.

MOA:

  • Reduce damage to 70/140
  • Increase mag size to 7.
  • increase aimpunch
  • increase recoil

FEL-IX:

  • Edit headshot damage multiplier or add a new mechanic to allow 170 damage headshots without instakilling low hp mercs with bodyshots. FEL-IX damage will be 79/170
  • Decrease mag size to 6.
  • Fix the reported inaccuracy of the FEL-IX.
  • Reduce recoil sway/change recoil pattern.

Misc:

Needs to be discussed:

  • Should snipers be able to instagib 80/90 hp mercs?

EDIT1:
Note: the damage values are all for Vassili, especially with the FEL-IX. That is because calculating the SNITCH for the FEL-IX would result in lower damage values as with my suggestion a rhino can be oneshot when tagged by a snitch. (170 damage x damage multiplier = RIP rhino) and the point of this thread is buffing the FEL-IX to set it apart from the MOA.

EDIT2: added mag size buff/nerf.
EDIT3: added condition that the MOA instagib-bar changes in accordance the the FEL-IX instagib-bar. and changed “HP point of instagib” to “instagib-bar” thx to @FrostyVampire for learning me a new word.
EDIT4: added major note.
EDIT5: removed wrong instagib mechanic ideas, corrected grammar, changed ‘to be discussed’ topic.

(other bad idea)
[spoiler]
MOA:

  • Increase mag size to 7
  • reduce fire rate.
  • reduce ads speed.
  • reduce damage to 70.

FEL-IX:

  • increase mobility while scoped and unscoped by 15%
  • increase fire rate
  • reduce mag size to 6.
  • reduce damage to 60.
  • reduce recoil to be in between the MOA and PDP.
  • reduce reload speed to 2.3

Important: Allow us to choose which sniper scope we want to use!
MOA:
[spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/Q4TDPOi.png
[/spoiler]
FEL-IX/PDP
[spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/3Vn2NY8.png
[/spoiler][/spoiler]

(hoyes) #2

I think these would probably be the best balance changes to these guns that have been suggested. The only thing is, how about reducing the mag cap of the fel-ix aswell, since then the fel-ix would just be better if you fixed the sway and allowed free choice of scope. You would basically have a higher damage moa, with a bigger mag cap
, but the only downside would be a slightly lower rpm, which is somewhat negligible.

As for saying these changes aren’t supposed to be on Aimee, the snitch kinda isn’t very powerful right now, as it has a lot of counters, so if Rhino was able to be one shot headshot I think it would be fine. Though it would make him even more medic dependent. Tbh I don’t really think Aimee matters as much as vassili in the sniper role, as aimee only has access to 1 true sniper, which isn’t the best one.

(Herr_Hanz) #3

[quote=“Jokder;202008”]I think these would probably be the best balance changes to these guns that have been suggested. The only thing is, how about reducing the mag cap of the fel-ix aswell, since then the fel-ix would just be better if you fixed the sway and allowed free choice of scope. You would basically have a higher damage moa, with a bigger mag cap
, but the only downside would be a slightly lower rpm, which is somewhat negligible.

As for saying these changes aren’t supposed to be on Aimee, the snitch kinda isn’t very powerful right now, as it has a lot of counters, so if Rhino was able to be one shot headshot I think it would be fine. Though it would make him even more medic dependent. Tbh I don’t really think Aimee matters as much as vassili in the sniper role, as aimee only has access to 1 true sniper, which isn’t the best one.[/quote]

ok ill add it

(BananaSlug) #4

Also keep in mind that moa has very good augments with it, soo it can be slightly worse

(Herr_Hanz) #5

i try to focus more on the guns than the total loadout, the devs can tinker around with the augments for gen3.

good thing i have gen1 moa and felix cards, gen2 doesnt have unshakeable, which is my fav augment.

(Phukka) #6

Kinda curious, but I assume you all use MOA right?

(Herr_Hanz) #7

yeah. i was a felix main for a long time, but then i switched to the MOA and found it was better. played with the felix for 1 match yesterday, its super enjoyable, but it just sux compared to the moa.

(frostyvampire) #8

What about jumpshots? Bring them back too please

For FEL-IX, increasing the insta-gib bar to 80 would make it better than MOA because it will be able to insta-gib full health Aura and Sparks. So keep it at 79.
Also I’m not sure about reducing the sway from FEL-IX. We want MOA and FEL-IX be equally good, if they both have the same recoil the only upside of MOA would be 1 extra bullet and the 0.1 second faster fire rate, which will make FEL-IX better. I think the sway should stay

(Herr_Hanz) #9

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202084”]What about jumpshots? Bring them back too please

For FEL-IX, increasing the insta-gib bar to 80 would make it better than MOA because it will be able to insta-gib full health Aura and Sparks. So keep it at 79.
Also I’m not sure about reducing the sway from FEL-IX. We want MOA and FEL-IX be equally good, if they both have the same recoil the only upside of MOA would be 1 extra bullet and the 0.1 second faster fire rate, which will make FEL-IX better. I think the sway should stay[/quote]

i want to keep this thread to the guns, so no jumpshotting discussion here please. even though i would like it.

the recoil of the MOA is that it goes upwards a bit, while the recoil of the FEL-IX jumps all around the place. i want the recoil of the FEL-IX to be higher than the MOA off course, but less than it is now. to make it a bit more controllable.

maybe moving the MOA instagib-bar to 60 will make it more balanced, since choosing between 70/79 isnt such a hard choice. ill edit the main post to say “60/70 if the FEL-IX gets 80”

(Supersneaky) #10

I made a suggestion a little while ago on here to really give the snipers a distinct difference.

I thought itd work by giving the Fel a small aoe on impact, the damage of the aoe would be smaller then the shot (could be 40 damage or less) while the initial impact would be the same.
And also the aoe and direct hit can’t stack.

To balance this you could slow rate of fire a bit and reduce mag, it would be a fun mechanic though giving you the ability to hit people hiding behind cover/corners and or splash damage multiple mercs like an aura station camp.

I know this is a little off topic but it’s my opinion for really dividing the snipers apart.

(Herr_Hanz) #11

[quote=“Sneaky;202113”]I made a suggestion a little while ago on here to really give the snipers a distinct difference.

I thought itd work by giving the Fel a small aoe on impact, the damage of the aoe would be smaller then the shot (could be 40 damage or less) while the initial impact would be the same.
And also the aoe and direct hit can’t stack.

To balance this you could slow rate of fire a bit and reduce mag, it would be a fun mechanic though giving you the ability to hit people hiding behind cover/corners and or splash damage multiple mercs like an aura station camp.

I know this is a little off topic but it’s my opinion for really dividing the snipers apart.[/quote]

i dont think SD would do that, as no other gun has special traits. makes me think of giving the FEL-IX the power to shoot through thin walls, but doubt that that would happen.

(frostyvampire) #12

@Herr_Hanz
I’m talking about jumpshots for MOA and FEL-IX. No other weapons

If you make the recoil higher then it’s fine I guess.

I just realized that if you let FEL-IX do 170 damage, it will still be able to insta gib Aura and Sparks which will make it so much better than the MOA.
Also changing the insta gib minimum health is a bit weird. So instead of doing “MOA instagib people with 60hp or less” do it “70 damage on bodyshot and 160 damage on headshot” and FEL-IX will be “79 damage on bodyshot and 170 damage on headshot”. That way both MOA and FEL-IX will be insta gib against Aura and Sparks but FEL-IX will have an advantage against any other mercs (insta kill Thunder and insta gib against players with 10hp more than the MOA could)

(Herr_Hanz) #13

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202167”]@Herr_Hanz
I’m talking about jumpshots for MOA and FEL-IX. No other weapons

If you make the recoil higher then it’s fine I guess.

I just realized that if you let FEL-IX do 170 damage, it will still be able to insta gib Aura and Sparks which will make it so much better than the MOA.
Also changing the insta gib minimum health is a bit weird. So instead of doing “MOA instagib people with 60hp or less” do it “70 damage on bodyshot and 160 damage on headshot” and FEL-IX will be “79 damage on bodyshot and 170 damage on headshot”. That way both MOA and FEL-IX will be insta gib against Aura and Sparks but FEL-IX will have an advantage against any other mercs (insta kill Thunder and insta gib against players with 10hp more than the MOA could)[/quote]

i knew you meant sniper jumpshots, i just want to have this thread about the snipers base stats.

just to make sure: the recoil of the FEL-IX will be lower than it is now, but higher than the MOA. making it a bit more controllable.

if the felix does 170 headshot damage it still doesnt instagib. as far as i know people only get instagibbed when they have 50hp or less, and this isnt affected when you raise the damage that the snipers do.

i dont want the MOA to be able to instagib, i would like to discuss if the FEL-IX should have the ability to instagib sparks/aura.

i want the damage difference between the MOA and FEL-IX to be more than 10. the FEL-IX being able to instagib with 10 hp more doesnt make that much of an impact, thats why i suggested 60 for the MOA, and 79 for the FEL-IX.

i decided to perminantly change the instagib bar in my suggestion for the MOA to 60, instead of 70

(JJMAJR) #14

I think that all of these changes are way too complicated for SD to implement. Giving the FEL-IX more mobility and reload speed (to the point where it’s at 2.1 seconds) would make it a better sniper rifle than it was before, alongside increasing the MOA’s reload time to be around 3 seconds.

I really think however before buffing the FEL-IX in any way, Aimee needs to be reworked so that her abilities are more effective at the skill ceiling and have a higher learning curve. Debilitation is just an incredibly painful ability and causes as much frustration as a Rhino does, and makes Aimee way too defense oriented with less reward than Vassili.

Of all mercs in the game, Aimee is the best candidate for an EMP ability, which would make her able to work offensively and counter Aura. Her camera should be reworked to just spot (and that’s it) so that it’s harder to discover. Finally if Aimee needs debilitation so badly she should do it by headshotting people, not from her camera.

That’s the only reason why I don’t want the FEL-IX buffed. I want them to focus more on making Aimee actually competitive instead of a nuisance.

If people think Aimee’s good, they only think so because her abilities have the same amount of value as Bushwhacker’s turret.

(Herr_Hanz) #15

[quote=“JJMAJR;202179”]I think that all of these changes are way too complicated for SD to implement. Giving the FEL-IX more mobility and reload speed would make it a better sniper rifle than it was before, alongside increasing the MOA’s reload time to be close to the KEK-10 or the burst rifles.

-sniper-[/quote]

no. the core of the whole MOA/FEL-IX problem is that they are too much the same. changing mobility and reload speed wont change anything. people will still go for the faster firing one.

reworking aimee and reworking the balance between 2 guns are two completely different things. please keep this discussion to the suggested changes to the guns.

(watsyurdeal) #16

Honestly at this point the only thing I can see working for the Felix is buffing the damage to 80, that’s literally the only thing I can see being fair, if needed we can just buff Sparks and Aura’s HP respectively.

[quote=“JJMAJR;202179”]
That’s the only reason why I don’t want the FEL-IX buffed. I want them to focus more on making Aimee actually competitive instead of a nuisance.[/quote]

As long as she has 90 health they simply won’t do that, the health amounts really need to be nailed down a little more to be more standardized. There’s too many intricacies when it comes to the game’s balance that just throws things off.

But her snitch cam honestly needs to not have that weird flighty thing, it really needs to just be thrown and stick to walls like a traditional sticky cam.

(JJMAJR) #17

I simply don’t believe that making the FEL-IX have higher damage would change much of anything either. We are talking about a weapon that would only change to be able to come closer to one-shotting Thunder if those changes that you stated were to be implemented.

Not only that, but I also want Aimee changed so that the FEL-IX would not have to have ten lines of code in order for that weapon to be balanced in her hands. Right now every weapon she has got an extremely asinine level of bullshit wrapped around it if used against new players, while having a disproportionately high level of uselessness against players that would shoot Aimee’s camera where it stands.

Your changes are just as, if not more, useless. I mean the FEL-IX could be a rifle that works better for players that are good at dodging and being unpredictable instead of a faster firing rifle (the MOA) better for players that could hit two targets fairly quickly.

I played a really ratty Vasilli before and I have to say it was fun. (I got the highest points on my team, who was getting destroyed in an Execution match) If the FEL-IX had assault rifle mobility and reload speed, and had a couple of augments to emphasize those traits, it would be a beast.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;202212”]As long as she has 90 health they simply won’t do that, the health amounts really need to be nailed down a little more to be more standardized. There’s too many intricacies when it comes to the game’s balance that just throws things off.

But her snitch cam honestly needs to not have that weird flighty thing, it really needs to just be thrown and stick to walls like a traditional sticky cam.[/quote]

-MAKING NEW THREAD IN MERCENARY DISCUSSION-

(frostyvampire) #18

There is no actual “if they have xhp or less they get gibbed on headshot”
All mercs have some health after they get killed. If they lose all the extra health they have, they get finished
Aura and Sparks have 80hp, so after they get killed you need to deal another 80 damage to get them gibbed, so you need to deal a total of 160 damage to kill + finish them.
Aimee, Kira and Proxy have 90hp, so they have another 90hp to get gibed after you kill them. A total of 180 damage will fully finish them
All other mercs have a total of 100hp after they get killed (even Rhino). Since MOA headshot does 150 damage, any merc that has 50hp or less will be insta gibbed.

This is also why a FEL-IX headshot against a SNITCH’d Proxy (and any squishy merc) will insta gib her, because that headshot does 198 damage which is more than the 180 you need.
By making FEL-IX do 170 damage, you guarantee an insta gib on Aura and Sparks even if they are at full health, if MOA can’t do the same it will be a huge disadvantage

(Herr_Hanz) #19

my changes will at least make choosing between the MOA and the FEL-IX harder. if you want a mobile sniper you have to use the MOA, as it has faster reload, faster aiming time, faster ROF. the FEL-IX is at the moment a heavy hitting sniper rifle, with low mobility. you have to completely change its role for what you want.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202228”][quote=“Herr_Hanz;202175”]

if the felix does 170 headshot damage it still doesnt instagib. as far as i know people only get instagibbed when they have 50hp or less, and this isnt affected when you raise the damage that the snipers do.

i dont want the MOA to be able to instagib, i would like to discuss if the FEL-IX should have the ability to instagib sparks/aura.

[/quote]

There is no actual “if they have xhp or less they get gibbed on headshot”
All mercs have some health after they get killed. If they lose all the extra health they have, they get finished
Aura and Sparks have 80hp, so after they get killed you need to deal another 80 damage to get them gibbed, so you need to deal a total of 160 damage to kill + finish them.
Aimee, Kira and Proxy have 90hp, so they have another 90hp to get gibed after you kill them. A total of 180 damage will fully finish them
All other mercs have a total of 100hp after they get killed (even Rhino). Since MOA headshot does 150 damage, any merc that has 50hp or less will be insta gibbed.

This is also why a FEL-IX headshot against a SNITCH’d Proxy (and any squishy merc) will insta gib her, because that headshot does 198 damage which is more than the 180 you need.
By making FEL-IX do 170 damage, you guarantee an insta gib on Aura and Sparks even if they are at full health, if MOA can’t do the same it will be a huge disadvantage[/quote]

well that just puts a hole in my whole buffing/nerfing strat. @RazielWarmonic @stayfreshshoe can we get the FEL-IX to oneshot thunder without instagibbing 80hp mercs? if not we might as well remove the FEL-IX, do a complete overhaul on it, or nerf the F* out of the MOA. unless instagibbing 80hp mercs is accepted by the devs. which i doubt.

(JJMAJR) #20

my changes will at least make choosing between the MOA and the FEL-IX harder. if you want a mobile sniper you have to use the MOA, as it has faster reload, faster aiming time, faster ROF. the FEL-IX is at the moment a heavy hitting sniper rifle, with low mobility. you have to completely change its role for what you want.[/quote]

I am perfectly fine with that. If the FEL-IX has more mobility and reload speed while the MOA has higher firerate, both weapons would be equally as acceptable but serve different purposes. One would be a fast-moving evasive creature that works well for surviving in a very dangerous area, while the MOA would be better serving a defense-oriented purpose.