UI/HUD: Alternate class feedback

(H0RSE) #61

This just comes down to semantics. Where you see being “denied access” because you need to choice one or the other, I see being offered access to both.

You can mention other games to the cows come home, won’t convince me it’s a fit for DB.

Well, seeing as RTCW is basically the Grandfather of ET games, and DB follows the same overall formula, not to mention is being developed by the same developer who has only ever made one type of FPS, I really don’t see it as rocket science to conclude that such a system could work in this game. Your post just comes off as the internet skeptic, “pics or didn’t happen,” guy.

While ingame in brink, your choice is fixed and you have to live with it, I don’t see how this is confusing.

What choice is fixed? I can change not only my class, but my weapons as well. The only fixed choice is Bodytype and the skills you chose for your class. Since your main argument is about locked weapons (SMG’s vs SG) I don’t see where Brink has this same problem.

And your failing was thinking I didn’t know. I knew about it, it’s not convincing enough. As I said, several threads that span about 15 pages each… you’re saying nothing new.

And nothing I said would convince you anyway, because remember - “pics, or it didn’t happen.”

Works because you say so yeah?

No, works because I and thousands of other players, have played games where it is implemented.

I’d rather know it wasn’t the culprit than being denied the chance to find out and being forced to live with it. If anything you’re making a better case against it… if having access to it then exposes me to my failings as a player then i’ll be much better off for it instead of living in ignorant bliss thinking my loadout is the issue.

As I said, I am a fan of either system, I just really can’t get over how…for lack of better word, butthurt you seem to be over this. It really irks me how stubborn you are.

You should try it.

Yes, I should try it…You are defending one specific system to high heaven, but I should try and be more objective…

I know we are supposed to give our feedback and suggestions to SD, but I really hope they stick to their gut here, and implement what system they think portrays the gameplay they are going for best. As an artist myself, I appreciate constructive criticism , but I still know when my own ideas are the best choice.

(DarkangelUK) #62

[QUOTE=H0RSE;411411]This just comes down to semantics. Where you see being “denied access” because you need to choice one or the other, I see being offered access to both.[/QUOTE]When in fact you can’t get access to both mid-match (as that specific class) which is exactly what I’m stating, so it’s not semantics, you’re just wrong.

Well, seeing as RTCW is basically the Grandfather of ET games, and DB follows the same overall formula, not to mention is being developed by the same developer who has only ever made one type of FPS, I really don’t see it as rocket science to conclude that such a system could work in this game. Your post just comes off as the internet skeptic, “pics or didn’t happen,” guy.
Sceptic indeed, I don’t want a system that could potentially annoy me. Once it’s done it’s done, no going back. By looks of it, it’d be really awesome if I’m proven wrong because it looks like it was already decided regardless.

What choice is fixed? I can change not only my class, but my weapons as well. The only fixed choice is Bodytype and the skills you chose for your class. Since your main argument is about locked weapons (SMG’s vs SG) I don’t see where Brink has this same problem.

[QUOTE=Anti;411308]
With regards to the Brink skill system I’m not sure it’s a great example of ‘within class’ variety and is very different to this system. In Brink the range of skills and their impact was far too wide and in the end there were unfortunately skills or ‘builds’ that were vastly better than others. On top of that we did end up with folks specialising heavily in a single class, to the detriment of their others and their team.[/QUOTE]I’ll concede yes you could select guns, but as you mention correctly other aspects were locked, Anti has confirmed my grievance that players dedicated solely on one class which had an adverse affect on the way they played with their team, but well he seems to think DB’s way is different and what have the same affect so that’s at least a positive nod towards this system… although I’m sure they thought that about Brink as well and look what happened.

And nothing I said would convince you anyway, because remember - “pics, or it didn’t happen.”

Nope, you’re just saying nothing new.

No, works because I and thousands of other players, have played games where it is implemented.

And I bet there’s a large number that would rather it wasn’t implemented because they get annoyed at the restrictions in some instances… unless you can vouch the opposite?

As I said, I am a fan of either system, I just really can’t get over how…for lack of better word, butthurt you seem to be over this. It really irks me how stubborn you are.

What really irks me is the fact that you’d be butthurt if it didn’t get implemented even though the system wouldn’t affect you what so ever. You could still what you want to do, this option does allows people like myself to do what I want to do as well… and you seem dead set against that for some bizarre reason.

Yes, I should try it…You are defending one specific system to high heaven, but I should try and be more objective…

And you still aren’t there.

I know we are supposed to give our feedback and suggestions to SD, but I really hope they stick to their gut here, and implement what system they think portrays the gameplay they are going for best. As an artist myself, I appreciate constructive criticism , but I still know when my own ideas are the best choice.

Don’t we all, you just happen to think one way is the best and I think the other is the best… and yes I also know when my own ideas are the best. As stated in my breakdown, one way potentially leaves people annoyed, another doesn’t… you wouldn’t be affected by it so why are you so dead against it?

(Ashog) #63

and it was terribly annoying. I can’t even start to express how frustrating and annoying this was in Brink to not be able to change the characters which had different unlocks.

And everyone I know who played Brink really hated this issue. So I don’t understand where is this opinion of this “feature” being alright coming from.

(stealth6) #64

I think I’m missing something here. From what I understand you pick 5 weapon loadouts, 1 per class. At the beginning of each map you can tweak them to something else.

Basically it’s the same as W:ET where you only had 1 loadout. No weapons will be perfect counters to others so you’re never really at a major disadvantage.

so we’re fighting over whether we should be able to swap loadout mid match too?

(tokamak) #65

From what I understand you pick the loadout outside the game.

(stealth6) #66

I hope it’s a quick swap system, but we’ll have to wait and see?

(H0RSE) #67

[QUOTE=stealth6;411488]I think I’m missing something here. From what I understand you pick 5 weapon loadouts, 1 per class. At the beginning of each map you can tweak them to something else.

Basically it’s the same as W:ET where you only had 1 loadout. No weapons will be perfect counters to others so you’re never really at a major disadvantage.

so we’re fighting over whether we should be able to swap loadout mid match too?[/QUOTE]
The difference they are talking about, is that each class will have different loadouts available, but you will only be able to chose one for the whole match. The example Dark was using is the SMG and shotgun loadouts for the Medic - what he doesn’t want to see is a system where the Medic has 2 loadouts, but once you pick one before the match, you are “locked” into it and cannot access the other build.

I don’t see a problem with this system, since you will likely still be able to change classes (thus, having access to different weapons) but I don’t see a problem with allowing free access to loadouts as well - they each present their own pros and cons, not only from a technical standpoint, but from a gameplay one as well.

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;411427]
What really irks me is the fact that you’d be butthurt if it didn’t get implemented even though the system wouldn’t affect you what so ever. You could still what you want to do, this option does allows people like myself to do what I want to do as well… and you seem dead set against that for some bizarre reason.[/quote]

Don’t we all, you just happen to think one way is the best and I think the other is the best… and yes I also know when my own ideas are the best. As stated in my breakdown, one way potentially leaves people annoyed, another doesn’t… you wouldn’t be affected by it so why are you so dead against it?

I’m not arguing with you because I think my way is better than your way. I’m am arguing because you are so fixated on one system, and refuse to give the time of day to the other. This isn’t about my way being better than your way - it is about me trying to show you that the system you despise, can and does indeed work. I don’t have a “my way.” I don’t care which system gets implemented - I just trying to show you (and others) that one system isn’t purely awesome, while the other sucks - they are both viable systems. Your extreme one-sidedness on the issue, is why I’m having this discussion with you.

I just hope that whichever system they go with, turns out to be the right one, since things tend to look good on paper, then fall apart when implemented - this goes for either system.

(H0RSE) #68

sorry, double post …

(Dormamu) #69

I didn’t play the game… yet, but from what i have bean reading from this thread, i’m with DAUK on this.
Is like telling me that i need to eat an 8 Course Mystery Dinner by only using one of those cutlery pieces: a fork, a spoon, or a knife, but not all of them.
If you guys stick with this, you need to implement some attachments to counter this problem (shotgun, grenade launcher, nades attachments, etc.) If i can’t have all the cutlery, at least give me a spork, a spife , a knork, or the sporf for that cursed mystery dinner.
What if this system was implemented in W:ET and “MPG Drago” had chosen another weapon for his soldier on CB season XVI, we will still have one of the best panzerfaust shots in ET history? :smiley: What if he had a light body type? :smiley:

(tokamak) #70

You get 5 cutlery pieces. That’s more than enough.

(Dormamu) #71

so, from all of this

800px-Formal_Place_Setting.jpg800×478 88.2 KB


i can only pick 5?
Cruel World :frowning:

(Senethro) #72

How about people who actually PLAY the alpha offer opinions instead of theorycrafting wildly?

(SockDog) #73

Because the chef will ensure everything he serves can be eaten with any of them. Yes soup and steak are off the menu but there is going to be lots of baby food. Yummy.

(H0RSE) #74

I eat soup with a fork anyway…

(zenstar) #75

Here’s a question that may impact current discussions:

Will there be multiple “engineer types” for the engineer slot? Eg: standard engineer / some engineer with a plus and minus (faster build but less health?) / etc ??

Will we be locking this down as the character but allowing different weapon loadouts?
Are the weapon loadouts locked to the class type choices and thus not changeable?

Comparisons to MOBAs can get a little overstretched here, but even most MOBAs let you change equipment during a match.
I haven’t really played Super Monday Night Combat and it’s been too long since I played Monday Night Combat (which is basically the intersection between MOBA and FPS): does anyone know what sort of changes are allowed during the match there?

(H0RSE) #76

[QUOTE=zenstar;411863]
Comparisons to MOBAs can get a little overstretched here, but even most MOBAs let you change equipment during a match.
I haven’t really played Super Monday Night Combat and it’s been too long since I played Monday Night Combat (which is basically the intersection between MOBA and FPS): does anyone know what sort of changes are allowed during the match there?[/QUOTE]
There are no changes allowed during a match in SMNC. Each team chooses their character in the lobby and locks in their choice. You are able to see what the enemy is choosing as well. You can alter gear and such, but only before the match (at least asd far as I can tell.) The only sort of changes made during a match, is that your character earns xp, and you choose what you want to lvl up - these upgrades work on a per-match basis, like in W:ET. You can also buy boosts, like health or xp boost, or damage - things like that.

character has 5 abilities they can upgrade - 3 active abilities (with cooldowns)and 2 passives. 1 passive increases sprint speed and health (i think) and the other increases weapon damage - the active skills change per character, and each ability has 4 lvls you can upgrade.

(amazinglarry) #77

Since right now it’s proposed that people will have to choose a loadout of the 5 classes before they go into a game, do we know if that’s before they actually enter a server? Or if it’s before the start of each match?

With that said, if it’s the start of each match - is a full SW rotation considered ONE match? Meaning both defense and offense, and then the match is over.

The problem I could see here is if somebody chooses a loadout because they know they want their base ‘offensive’ or ‘defensive’ classes… if they get stuck having to choose between one or the other for playing both D and O, it can be a bit annoying.

And yes, I’m well aware all viable for doing both, but no doubt people will eventually have a strong preference as they play.

(Dormamu) #78

On Brink, Container City map, playing as a security, most often we will be pinned down before planting the bomb on the gate. in that situation, i will switch my soldier to use the Lobster to make some room for my team and give them the time to plant/defend. This is why i don’t believe in locked load out’s in game, as Lobster was one of those weapons y will not chose as a primary weapon for my soldier.

As Horse said,

[QUOTE=H0RSE;410915]…There are basically 3 options here:

  1. Give classes only one fixed loadout.
  2. Give classes multiple loadouts to choose from, but the one they choose is fixed.
  3. Give classes multiple loadouts that can be changed freely. …[/QUOTE]
    and this being alpha, when all the chars a available and the load outs are sorted out we can test this: 1week option 1 , 1 week option - 2, 1week - option 3. This way we can make some sort of opinion by playing all of them and continue this debate using actual facts related to this game.
(tokamak) #79

Well let’s wait with locking the alternatives down a bit more. Due to the amount of testers there’s simply not enough iterations to have a robust picture of how they relate to each other.

But yeah I agree that it’s important to eventually lock them down and feel how it plays with only one choice per class.

(INF3RN0) #80

Definitely option 3. Freedom is always the winning option.