turrets

(Ashog) #81

I am mostly talking about attack. The defending camping tac is clear - no need to state it all the time.

(OwNLY) #82

Wikipedia

And in attack??

You take the spot, put down the turret in a corner, then plant the bomb / start hacking / etc.
-> Turret helps defending the spot against the defending team retaking it.

(Ashog) #83

Well have fun trying that. I bet you haven’t played as engie in attack and I did. This simply doesn’t work in practice as you say.

Very unthankful role indeed.

(rookie1) #84

Maybe the attacking team engis should have an RC to counter

:smiley:

(OwNLY) #85

[QUOTE=Ashog;445702]Well have fun trying that. I bet you haven’t played as engie in attack and I did. This simply doesn’t work in practice as you say.

Very unthankful role indeed.[/QUOTE]

Why would i want to play engie in the attacking team in the first place?
Until now there is only london bridge&white chapel where you have to repair the EV.
The EV-repair is normally a mess, if your team secures the area for a few seconds you got the repair.
If not, a even stronger turret won´t help you against nades and suicide frags against you.

Normally you play 5on5 with 3-4 medics, 1-2 obj-guys, and maybe 1 FOPS.
Engie is the obj-guy most of the times in defense.

On public 8on8 do whatever you like, i can imagine placing a turret in a corner to defend the bomb.

(Ashog) #86

I surely wasn’t talking about SW wars. Finally you got to the point - 8x8 pub. And that doesn’t work there like it should.

(OwNLY) #87

Oh sorry. I don´t play 8on8 because it´s unplayable laggy and you don´t hit **** with 30 FPS.

And like i said, the turret is for defending a spot.

If you were able to take a spot in a 8on8 on attack, you have to mess up big time to lose it.
And if you lose it, you have multiple enemys storming the spot.
A turret matching this many enemies at once would be way too overpowered
You can use it to reinforce one retake-way against respawned defenders. There it should do a nice job.
Seems like you have to use the turret as it´s supposed to. A defensive reinforcement to hold a room/spot against several attackers.

In my opinion the turret is working just fine like it should.

/edit:
Just played 8on8. Laggy as **** with nearly unplayable performance.
But the turrets worked very good for the attacking team on camden.
They placed it nicely in corners at the 2nd obj (blowing up the wagon), the turrets did a nice amount of damage.
And on London Bridge i used it when repairing the EV for the first time. Saved my life twice.

(demsix) #88

The turrets are fine. They have low life, but good damage, meaning ideally you drop them to make a 2v1 situation and don’t stand next to it so they’re being fired on by 2 different things.

(Ashog) #89

They have a terribly slow reaction, which is basically what I am complaining at.

(Bangtastic) #90

IMO normal weapons must be the most reliable and most powerful force in the game since they must be used by every players own skill. Automatic gimmicks, traps as mines, turrets, should be there for distraction purposes and does not guarantee a kill. A terrible placed turret shouldnt be compensated by its health it takes and damage it deals.

(sunshinefats) #91

But again, this seems only best suited to competition play. That seems to be our great divide in general…competition vs casual play, and that makes all these things all the more difficult to judge as the game is ideally supposed to cater to both. FWIW I still think the turrets suck as is, but I do acknowledge that some legitimate points have been made on the other side. :wink:

(Kendle) #92

[QUOTE=rookie1;445705]Maybe the attacking team engis should have an RC to counter

:D[/QUOTE]

As crazy as it seems, that may be a solution. :eek:

The problem with the current tech is that it’s static. Mines and Turrets don’t move. As defence are generally defending a position, and attack are generally moving towards that position, static tech favours defence more. Yes, you can use Turrets to defend a plant, for example, once it’s down, but in general Turrets and Mines help the defending team more than the attacking team, simply because they don’t move.

Give the attacking team some tech that does move however, and you balance the books. :slight_smile:

(Kl3ppy) #93

Dont beat me to death, but ETQW had a similar prob with the APT. At first, there was no warning when the APT started to shot at the players. After the 1.2 patch (?) a warning was introduced. Not sure if i m ix it up with the mine warning.

But tbh, right now I think the turret is annoying. It shoots very fast and deals a great damage and in some places it is very hard to see. The mines got tweaked in this case and the “beep” sound they make gives you a clear hint, Watch out, a mine is around. But the turret sometimes surprise me and Im dead after I realised whats shoting on me. I would like to test what happens to the turrets when they are more visibable than now. Echo should provide data if the turret then is useless or not.

I dont think that the attack engi should have a counter attack because I think, the engies maintask is defending, since the assault got the c4 which imo is a good thing.

(Kendle) #94

Except when he’s repairing the EV or constructing a pump to open up another attack route. I like the idea of a class that “makes things” (Engie) and a class that “breaks things” (Soldier), but there’s not enough making and breaking to be done at the moment, unfortunately.

Currently we have an imbalance in tech between teams (there is no tech specifically designed for an attacking role), on top of the imbalance that tech provides (because static tech favours defence), on top of the inherent imbalance caused by the defensive bias of the game (due to quick spawn times), on top of the even further imbalance caused by the objectives (all carryable objectives involve more than one object, C4 takes so long to blow than defence get 2 attempts to defuse).

The whole game is heavily biased in favour of the defending team, it’s time the attacking team got some useful tech IMO. :slight_smile:

(Kl3ppy) #95

[QUOTE=Kendle;446096]
The whole game is heavily biased in favour of the defending team, it’s time the attacking team got some useful tech IMO. :)[/QUOTE]

True, but first I would test what happens when you change the spawn times for defenders and reduce the c4 arm and blow up time. If this doesnt work, give some useful tech to the attackers :wink:

(Finko) #96

For me turret are ok, but its too easy to destroy them (i manage to destroy it with pistol), maybe worth increase health of turret?

(Samurai.) #97

Yeah i was also thinking about making turrets have in general more health, but keep the current level of damage to “disable” them and instead of disappearing they are still around just need repairing. (Think 25hp now for turret -> change to 75hp -> 50hp = disable but does not get destroyed until 0hp) giving engineers more of a role of maintaining the turret rather than redeploying all the time.

(Winnie) #98

I think it would be an interesting change. In this case, it would also increase the time between redeployments.

(Ashog) #99

Agreed, health boost and repair ability for engies, but in addition also faster reaction time of turrets. One of the reasons for turrets being destroyed so easily is a combination of high pistol damage and slow reaction. Obviously you won’t tweak the damage of pistols (and other weapons) only for making turrets more viable, so shortening the reaction time of turrets is the way to go. I remember this being a big problem in the first versions of QW:TF, later they improved the sentry reaction time but overdid it so turret became a crazy bot mowing everyone in sight. Then the devs decreased the reaction speed a notch and achieved a perfect balance and all were happy in the end and died together at old age.

Just find teh “golden middle”, this also concerns all the gunplay in the game, not only turrets. E.g. general TTK doesn’t have to go to extreme lows or highs, need to find a g-spot, so to say :wink: