Top 5 Priorities for Growth/Retention

(INF3RN0) #1

In regards to retention problems with DB these are my top 5 for what I think will have the biggest impact on reversing the decline. Albeit these aren’t necessarily what I personally want, but what I think will be most significant to the masses- and the hope being that more players/activity means more funding for the kinds of patches/content a hardcore DB player wants.

1) Anti-Cheat

Without question becoming one of the leading issues regarding retention/growth on all levels. Some hackers have made it as far as the higher 20s without bans and simply create new accounts once they do get banned.

2) Performance

This should have never been an issue for an u3 game, but when people with top tier PCs are still having issues (and on an escalating incline since alpha), this should be a much bigger concern. At this point I am more motivated to play a game I don’t enjoy as much simply because it runs smoothly.

3) Steam Market

DB needs a steam economy simply because of how attractive it is to the general population. The loadout card system would need to accommodate this better, which I think would require breaking things into smaller marketable pieces (as has been discussed before). Either way it is a highly effective ‘distraction’ when it comes to retention/growth and a source of income that should be utilized.

4) TDM

I’d never play it, you’d never play it, but I think it is necessary. TDM has always been the most popular mode in games, but I think it is a necessary stepping stone for a new player just to master the most basic mechanics. I imagine the natural transition being TDM>OBJ>SW>MM, which you would motivate by progressively better rewards for each game mode. Ideally MM would grant the highest credit earn rate and perhaps even better drop chances. And of course fully functional party systems and more customizable servers will help, though I know it’s already in the pipeline.

5) Bug Fixes/Quality Control/Community Tools

Less new content, more polishing of current content. Releasing new mercs will only do so much, but I’d rather see more done with the current pool of mercs and taking advantage of ways of customizing current content to make money (ie more in depth loadout cards/market/etc). At the moment I think a lot of people could care less about when the next merc is coming, especially when there are so many more prevalent issues that need to be solved first. A lot of shooting in the foot has been happening as well, ie the premature phantom release and melee changes as well as the guaranteed bugged merc abilities that never get caught. Hopefully the alpha testing portal comes through soon because even though the community isn’t large, there’s a lot of highly motivated/talented people willing to work for free given the proper tools. The more you take advantage of that, the more things can be prototyped/tested and perhaps even prove worthy of integration into the actual game.

(Amerika) #2

Good list.

I’d put in:

  1. Dance with the girl you came with. Create more content for Objective based gameplay rather than focusing efforts, confusingly, elsewhere. DM would be fine as it wouldn’t require any new map work or much effort. Execution…I’m just confused by this entirely.

  2. Tell us what you’re doing in advance through blog posts. The dev streams are nice and a lot of information gets stated there but the player base doesn’t really get to see it. If you’re working on a new AC solution then say what you’re looking at, why VAC isn’t a good fit (which was said in the dev stream) and a possible timeline but ensure that times might change. Some transparency ahead of time would be pretty great and it would calm down a lot of the naysayers who are adding more and more toxicity to the community everyday because they don’t know better.

Many companies used to remain quiet about issues but that’s something that has been changing to great effect lately. There is no shame in admitting there is a flaw or bug and talking about it. People enjoy candid communication and tend to be way more understanding. The PTR will help with this however.

(Radford_343) #3

[quote=“Amerika;58735”]Good list.

I’d put in:

  1. Dance with the girl you came with. Create more content for Objective based gameplay rather than focusing efforts, confusingly, elsewhere. DM would be fine as it wouldn’t require any new map work or much effort. Execution…I’m just confused by this entirely.
    [/quote]

A thousand times this, well said.

I also feel like a DM-mode could be an idea. Might weed out those who just plays for kills in Objective-based game modes and make them more interesting.

(Dirmagnos) #4
  1. yes
  2. yes
  3. not likely, not with current economy
  4. no no and no, there is nothing natural in that “transition”, not to mention whole idea of increasing rewards is just absurd
  5. yes
(smartIsland) #5

team deathmatch is not dirty bomb or splash damage, execution is the best you are going to get, otherwise go back to COD

(srswizard) #6

Actually, it’s completely natural.
First you learn the game mechanics, mercs and the maps (TDM is good for this), and then you can focus on learning the objectives. The increasing credit rewards are a good carrot on a stick, to get people to move on from TDM.

Quoting from another thread:

[quote=“Dirmagnos;58712”]
And making 5vs5 games as main feature is also a bad idea…[/quote]

It seems that you’re against 5v5 pubs, the number for which the game was balanced for, but you’re also against TDM.
It’s like you can’t decide if you want pubs to be objective focused, or just casual fun.

edit. If I misinterpreted that, and you’re just against rewarding competitive play higher than pub play, then I don’t know what to tell you.
When the competition is tougher, the rewards are usually higher.

(Backuplight) #7

1/ Anticheat, obviously a must, being worked on, nothing new here. Also as we seem to have established from other posts on the forum, the actual amount of hackers is far overblown. I agree seeing the same ones still in the game at high levels is not acceptable, though - but until we get a better reporting system in place, I can see why.

2/ Never had a single issue here, can’t really comment.

3/ The steam market argument has been done to death - I’d like it eventually, but right now it’d be more of a risk to the game’s income than something actually helpful. I really don’t see how it’d help retention though.

4/ I don’t know why people want TDM so bad. Fights are what I enjoy most about the game, but fights that are driven forward around a common objective are so much more fun.

5/ Another one that comes up now and then. They are (or seem to be) bug fixing and polishing alongside releasing the mercs on a schedule, I don’t think they’re spending all their time making new mercs at this point. It’s not really an either/or situation - working on new things as well as working on bug fixes and the like is far more useful than just doing bug fixing. People might say they want the bug fixes, but content is what gets people excited overall imo.

I like your overall point here though, the community is definitely a good one and I’m sure that’ll be good for the game long term.

(Yes) #8

New maps imo.

(squiid) #9

They probably have people constantly working on new maps, but they take time and who knows they may even same some for a big launch of maps (possibly when the game launches?). Maps will come overtime and so will the playerbase, theres already 6 maps to play and if you compare that to CS;GO that only have 7 in a competitive rotation (that pros play), I think SD are doing good on maps, I just can’t wait for new and exciting maps to play because the 6 they already have are enjoyable and I can play them over and over. (I’m a nerd :3)

(ludicrousBlast) #10

[quote=“Backuplight;58795”]
2/ Never had a single issue here, can’t really comment.[/quote]
Having a better optimized game means people with less expensive (I call them compoopers, and yes I do have a compooper.) can run the game, making it more accessible.

(Nail) #11

just # 1 would do it, more people are put off by the constant chatter about hackers, than players put off by any game issues, when the stigma of the game being overrun by hackers is gone the game will flourish on it’s playabilty alone, new maps designed with the alt movements can only bolster that, people are still drawn to this game by it’s positives

(CCP115) #12

Not really much comment, except for #2.

I feel as though graphics in this game are odd. When i swap from low to high presets, the only difference is that the game is so much more grayscale on low. Textures and models don’t appear to change at all.
Graphic options should get a revamp to do more, and tooltips so that the average layman doesn’t have to google what a setting does.

(Dirmagnos) #13

Again, there is nothing natural about it. Its like an empty attempt to justify TDM addition to the game… that it doesnt need.
All those things can be learned easely playing normally. Plus, being mainly objective-oriented game, TDM as started will reinforce in players attitude to play other modes in the same way. Its a well known psychological phenomena, that training from 0 is easier, than retraining from wrong way of doing things.
And increased rewards are an incentive to move on from mode that game dont even need.
Occams razor.

[/quote]
It seems that you’re against 5v5 pubs, the number for which the game was balanced for, but you’re also against TDM.
It’s like you can’t decide if you want pubs to be objective focused, or just casual fun.

edit. If I misinterpreted that, and you’re just against rewarding competitive play higher than pub play, then I don’t know what to tell you.
When the competition is tougher, the rewards are usually higher.[/quote]

Im in general agains low player matches, be it pub or otherwise. Every game has a certain number of players that make it feel just right. 5 per team is not that number for DB. 8 is closer, but id go as far as 10.
I like pubs to be about fun within boundaries defined by game design. Adding mode that has absolutely nothing to do with how the rest of the game is made will put a lot of strain on balancing and calibration.
And in what units you measure “competition toughness” ? If in overinflated self-esteem, then you are of course right.
However, again, there is absolutely no reason to reward it in any different way. Same maps, same mercs, same timers, same goals.

(srswizard) #14

Ok m8, I’ll write a serious reply once I stop puking.

(MarsRover) #15

After playing Dome during the weekend, I have to say that a typical 5v5 pub (ie. minimal coordination) results in a game of hide-and-seek :smile:

[quote=“Amerika;58735”]6) Dance with the girl you came with. Create more content for Objective based gameplay rather than focusing efforts, confusingly, elsewhere. DM would be fine as it wouldn’t require any new map work or much effort. Execution…I’m just confused by this entirely.
[/quote]
Yep.

[quote=“srswizard;58787”]
7) Tell us what you’re doing in advance through blog posts. The dev streams are nice and a lot of information gets stated there but the player base doesn’t really get to see it. If you’re working on a new AC solution then say what you’re looking at, why VAC isn’t a good fit (which was said in the dev stream) and a possible timeline but ensure that times might change. Some transparency ahead of time would be pretty great and it would calm down a lot of the naysayers who are adding more and more toxicity to the community everyday because they don’t know better.

Many companies used to remain quiet about issues but that’s something that has been changing to great effect lately. There is no shame in admitting there is a flaw or bug and talking about it. People enjoy candid communication and tend to be way more understanding. The PTR will help with this however.[/quote]

Communication is key. Vast majority of the successful Open Beta/Early Access games have very active devs that jump on top of PR issues before they become major problems. Devstreams are nice for the hardcore fans, but they can’t be the sole method of interaction. Even on this official forum I don’t see anyone involved with the game apart from @MissMurder.

When you look at Steam reviews for Dirty Bomb, the top 3 right now are:

  1. negative - Xigncode is spyware (this review has risen considerably!)
  2. negative - hackers
  3. negative - hackers
    This is not good. Again, I see only 1 reply from MissMurder in 2).
(INF3RN0) #16

Just to be clear the only reason I think that things like TDM and the steam market would be good for the game is simply because in order to grow the player base you have to lure in the inexperienced players. TDM is familiar ground for any FPS player, but the hope is to give them a place to start and ease into the more complex game modes. I could care less about TDM, skins, etc but they are without doubt more popular than my opinions of them.

Of course anyone who already knows how to play the game will likely never play TDM, however we are outnumbered and we should want that to change in our favor. Again this entire list is thinking “carrots for rabbits”- so that in the end we all benefit. More players means more content at a faster pace and that should be the goal for now, even if you have to spoon feed people until they can handle themselves.

(crimsonYouth) #17

I wouldn’t care if they stopped all development on this game if it meant an improved anti cheat. I could play the same 4 maps for a long time… but i wont play against hackers much longer.

(Fleshpound) #18

Some of them are good but DM(Big no).

And funny addition to give dancing girls for stopwatch mode on halftime.

(Dirmagnos) #19

[quote=“srswizard;59028”][quote=“Dirmagnos;59018”]
Every game has a certain number of players that make it feel just right. 5 per team is not that number for DB.[/quote]
I think most would disagree.
[/quote]
Most who ?
So far it feels like same trash that all those wannabepros are pushing, like devs should listen to them instead of community as a whole.

[quote=“srswizard;58787”]Devstreams are nice for the hardcore fans, but they can’t be the sole method of interaction. Even on this official forum I don’t see anyone involved with the game apart from @MissMurder.
[/quote]

Devs do read forums and they do post. But they keep low profile, replying only in situations when players seem to go completely bananas.
Sure, it would be nice to have more interactions, but then it would be 3-sided(devs, casual, wannabepros) conflict then, instead of 2 and devs would always be the ones who will take the fall, since they are the final instance in every decision.

Problem with that logic is that market is already overcrowded(and rather seriously) with various clones of clones of clones… of clones. All are either DM or variations of DM.
This niche is as full as it gets. Many players are actually fed up with this and they look for something different.
And, from personal experience, once game devs start going down that slope, there is no turning back. Game gradually becomes more and more generic(loosing pretty much everything that makes it different) and game for gamers is replaced by yet another CoD/BF clone, with ever-increasing tilt towards P2W, as devs/publisher desperately tries to keep their profits up or at least to keep game afloat.
Game is expected to gain players as it goes, and whole concept is usually revolves around how its done. With generalizing game, devs gain short bursts of short-time players, while any1 who would be interested in original design simply moves on, with player base numbers simply stalling and then starting to slowly decline.
If devs are to add DM mode, then game will follow exactly this path. Its not some long-time established franchise like same CoD, that has rather solid player base, regarding of what iteration of game were talking about. Nor it will be specialized objective-based teamplay-oriented game as it was originally designed.
Person why chases two rabbits catches neither.

(srswizard) #20

[quote=“Dirmagnos;59240”][quote=“srswizard;59028”][quote=“Dirmagnos;59018”]
Every game has a certain number of players that make it feel just right. 5 per team is not that number for DB.[/quote]
I think most would disagree.
[/quote]
Most who ?
So far it feels like same trash that all those wannabepros are pushing, like devs should listen to them instead of community as a whole.
[/quote]
Most people who have played Chapel.
¯_(ツ)_/¯