Todd Hollenshead talks about Pirates

[SCDS_reyalP]

Developers get paid if a game flops, or becomes a #1 title.

Uh sort of. If they produce flops, their chance of getting another contract diminishes rapidly.

[JBRAA]

Just as many people get burnt buying crappy games not worth the insane price tags games have these days and that many gamers that actually buy their games feel ripped off for having to deal with all the DRM crap nowdays while the pirates download the game ripped from all that shit.

Yep.

Also the magasine review market can become alot better. A game with boring gameplay can get uber hyped reviews because of its technology/graphics. The game producers and game developers should find it in their best interest that consumers get fair reviews.

Why write so much about the games technologies and graphics, if the games is awful when it comes to gameplay, fun and longitivity??? This is screwing the consumers, and effects their future purchases.

[carnage]

Before all the game devs starve to death:
Make your consumer not hate your DRM. (aka: make the online key verification compulsory, or leave it unsecure and make everyone hate your product for buying your product)
Give me digital distribution that doesn’t suck. Try Guild Wars for example, that’s how i want to buy every game.

a Steam-like substance seems to be the only way to stop the bleeding… never thought I’d say that.

actually steam is not as effective as you might think. i played though the entire single player of half life 2 without steam installed or a legitimate copy of the game. it wasn’t even that hard to bypass just replace a file and startup from a new .exe. although i did later by a actual copy of the game because i though it was just so damn cool with the physics and all. also gary’s mod online was a pretty big persuader as well. i don’t rely own a lot of pirated PC games but it proves that breaking steam protection is quite possible

[B0rsuk]

Hey let’s jail movie critics and journalists because they cause a lot of lost sales by discouraging people from seeing poor movies.
There’s no such thing as a lost sale unless you can prove the person would actually buy the game.

By the way, people seem to be forgetting multiplayer games are notoriously hard to crack into (cd key protection). Only SP component/games are cracked all the time. And because ET:QW won’t have SP, there’s no problem.
Unless they implement bots at their own peril.

[carnage]

Hey let’s jail movie critics and journalists because they cause a lot of lost sales by discouraging people from seeing poor movies.
There’s no such thing as a lost sale unless you can prove the person would actually buy the game.

By the way, people seem to be forgetting multiplayer games are notoriously hard to crack into (cd key protection). Only SP component/games are cracked all the time. And because ET:QW won’t have SP, there’s no problem.
Unless they implement bots at their own peril.

playing with bots doesn’t rely have the multilayer experience. no matter how good the bots are it just isn’t the same. a very small number of people would by ETQW with the intention of only playing with bots. in fact owning a pirate copy where you play with bots might encourage player to buy the full game so they can enjoy the full ETQW experience

[malarky]

Please don’t come here to try and defend game piracy, it just can’t be done…

It’s very cheeky to paint it as a ‘try before you buy’ scenario. There are demos for that, and if there isn’t a demo for a game you might want to buy, most game retailers have a no-fuss returns policy.

The whole ‘lost sales’ thing is very difficult to quantify, but there is definitely portion of lost sales through piracy. You just can’t argue with that; some people just don’t want to pay for games, and don’t see it as theft. If you’ve ripped off a game and played through any of it, that might not necessarily be a lost sale, but you have just played something that may have taken 50 people over 2 years and many millions of dollars to create, for nothing. That is theft. There is no argument there, either.

We’re very lucky because our first game was given away free, and ET:QW is an online title which requires a valid CD key, so piracy hasn’t really affected Splash Damage massively so far (though we did do the multiplayer maps for Doom3, which was heavily pirated).

Games, just like movies and music and books etc etc, are governed by economics, so why wouldn’t publishers and developers focus on platforms where it’s easier to recoup development costs? As much as Splash Damage would like to continue releasing our games for free, we’d find it very difficult to pay the staff, office rent, feed our hamsters (ok, and tapirs) etc, we’d all have to go and find less fun jobs, and you guys would never get to play ET:QW.

[Nail]

well said

[SKaREO]

Its funny that society says they hate theft and piracy, yet the #1 Disney movie and theme ride is Pirates of the Caribbean. Rap stars glamorize the illegal distribution of drugs and theft of other people’s jewellery and possessions. Its like we live in a giant oxymoron these days.

“Its cool to be a Pirate, but don’t be a criminal!” … what? lol.

I agree, we shouldn’t be defending piracy, but we certainly can’t put an end to it. I say embrace piracy and let it work for you instead of against you. Again, the Marketing potential of some of these p2p networks is phenomenal.

Movies that a lot of people download are sometimes considered “worth seeing” but most the time they are the most pirated because they suck and no one wants to pay to see it. This could help increase sales of a bad product by using the sheep effect (other people do it, so I should.) Movies like 300, which are clearly quality movies, are much harder to find on these sites because they are considered “good” by the pirating community, and worth paying for instead of downloading.

If you put the Quake Wars game demo up on a p2p network, you could get a great estimate of how popular it is going to be with the pirates and paying gamers alike. Basically you get free advertising for it being there titled “ET:Quake Wars”, and not even pay for the bandwidth while you deliver the demo to over 200,000 gamers. They download the game and can’t play online until they buy it, what a great reason to purchase! Single-player games get it the worst, no doubt about that.

I don’t think we can get rid of piracy, but lets make it better for the paying customers, okay? Because right now as a paying customer, I am being treated poorly. Whereas the pirate who didn’t pay anything for the game is allowed to enjoy it without the annoying DRM or poor customer support. This has got to be fixed.

[B0rsuk]

Please don’t come here to try and defend game piracy, it just can’t be done…

Not trying to defend piracy, just pointing out some oversimplifications. I only started buying games when I started earning my own money. If wages in Poland tend to be very low, the same happens to allowance. But that’s not the point.

It’s very cheeky to paint it as a ‘try before you buy’ scenario. There are demos for that, and if there isn’t a demo for a game you might want to buy, most game retailers have a no-fuss returns policy.

Demos are a good concept but often (deliberately) badly executed. It’s very common practice to make demos - in a way - better than a full game. I mean, demons (a typo but I’ll leave it this way) often contain the best music, most interesting levels, cutscenes etc. Demos are slightly more honest than advertisments. Later in the game, you’re likely to realize that:
a) the story isn’t as good in later parts of the game and/or is monotonous
b) poor balance and diversity (multiplayer/sandbox games)

Another reason why games are pirated is that game journalits do very shitty job. Something’s got to be wrong if all games are great and score over 80/100 points. A game needs to be very shitty to score as low as 70/100.
Thank gods for http://metacritic.com/games/pc

The whole ‘lost sales’ thing is very difficult to quantify, but there is definitely portion of lost sales through piracy. You just can’t argue with that; some people just don’t want to pay for games, and don’t see it as theft. If you’ve ripped off a game and played through any of it, that might not necessarily be a lost sale, but you have just played something that may have taken 50 people over 2 years and many millions of dollars to create, for nothing. That is theft. There is no argument there, either.

Oh, but there is. It’s not theft, but it’s copyright infringement.
theft =/= copyright infringement.

Some people don’t want to pay for games, that’s one reason. Another one is that simply donwloading a game instead of going to a shop is much, much more convenient for typical gamer.

PC games won’t die, but they need to adapt.
Part of the problem is that vast majority of games can’t be sold forever, and they get less and less enticing for consumers as the time passes. Th:
new games are often strictly better than older ones. This is true mostly for games based on simple concepts - racing games, shooters, flight simulators… although things are going to get interesting once graphics gets close to reality.

Not all games are like that. Online book shops are able to sell even very rare books with very low demand. Most books don’t become obsolete, so they can be sold almost forever.
Story-based games can work this way, too.

There’s just one problem. At the moment, almost all games contained on physical devices like cd’s. If you produce more cds than you can sell, you lose money.
It’s quite ironic, but indie games like Dominions3 are often more expensive than games produced with millions of dollars. Dominions3 is a niche game with comparatively low demand, so it can’t be mass produced. Result: a game made by 2 people has to cost $55 + delivery costs. This is why physical media sucks, big time. I can’t wait until more publishers embrace internet distribution.
(as a side note, I think it’s very interesting that a game like Dominions3 sells so well. It has graphics which look 10 years old and it’s hard to even find a review ! Most reviewers don’t bother.

You don’t have to be very big to develop a good internet distribution system. Stardock and Caravel Games succeeded. I’m convinced that embracing internet distribution can only reduce piracy. It won’t get any worse than it is now (with dominance of cds)

Games, just like movies and music and books etc etc, are governed by economics, so why wouldn’t publishers and developers focus on platforms where it’s easier to recoup development costs?

It can happen, but only to a certain degree. If big fishes move to greener pastures, others will be grateful for extra space to grow. As long as people are using computers which can run games, there will be commercial games.
Piracy has a bit to do with ecology. Only big games are easily pirated. Games from indy developers and/or linux games aren’t popular enough to sustain piracy.

Before I buy a game, I try to determine how will they spend my money. It’s easy if you know what to look for.
A bad developer/publisher wants you to buy the game. Once you buy a game from them, you’d better fully enjoy it because you won’t receive any support or patches. EA works this way. I think their marketing department is funded much better than designers and developers.
A good developer/publisher wants you to buy their game and enjoy it. And it shows. Patches are released - as many as needed. They learn, and their future games and expansion packs show improvement and insight. ID Software, Splash Damage, Caravel Games and Illwinter Game Design fall into this category.

First Command&Conquer / Westwood games were very good and original, but they just kept releasing more of the same with little improvement and abysmal support/patches/multiplayer balance.

[malarky]

There are a load of points I don’t agree with in your post, but I just want to call this one out because it looks like you’re saying that piracy is fine depending on how you define it:

It’s not theft, but it’s copyright infringement.
theft =/= copyright infringement.

That’s a semantics issue that people have argued about for the last 200 years, and will argue about for the next 200, so I’m not going to get into a discussion about it now, but you can’t hide behind the term ‘copyright infringement’ while defending piracy. It’s still illegal.

However you want to class it, it’s bad for the businesses involved, and ultimately it’s bad for gamers.

[Nail]

theft of intellectual property ie: non physical items is still theft

[SKaREO]

Well, I’m with the other people who want to test-run demos before making a purchase, without a doubt. Same as test driving a car, or walking into a home, or just trying on a pair of shoes before purchase. I want to know if its a good fit for me and my type of enjoyment.

Return policies don’t work on software licenses in most cases, so without a demo, I’m forced to deal with pre-purchase anxiety. I will likely pass on a game until a trial is released, or I get to try someone else’s copy which, mind you, is as illegal as downloading the game from a torrent.

[Nail]

not if you try it on their computer, but i wait for demos mostly

[Zarkow]

Just a small note:

most game retailers have a no-fuss returns policy.

Most retailors have stopped acception returned gamed if the seal is broken. Atleast where I come from. (Where I am now they never have in the first place.)

[kamikazee]

That’s a semantics issue that people have argued about for the last 200 years, and will argue about for the next 200, so I’m not going to get into a discussion about it now, but you can’t hide behind the term ‘copyright infringement’ while defending piracy. It’s still illegal.

Sorry, but I’m as well getting sick of the continuous use of the word “theft” in here…
Can we keep to the term “piracy” for “making illegal copies” and “a crime”? Piracy is quite more complicated than regular theft, though not less illegal.

[Fusen]

theft of intellectual property ie: non physical items is still theft

not according to law

copyright infringement = copyright infringement

theft = theft

sure, when you are making a hit piece about how “piracy” is wrong, the word ‘theft’ with all it’s emotional strings attached is a better word to use than copyright infringement

[signofzeta]

pirates = R me mateys + eye patch

[iwound]

yo Ho Ho me hearties.