Todd Hollenshead talks about Pirates

(einer) #41

Haven’t read the topic.

Singleplayer console games are pirated, modchips and firmwares for xbox360 all over the place… only multiplayer trough xboxlive is a problem for pirates, compareabel to PC multiplayer, but the difference is that PC users can download singleplayer games, but not all console gamers know about the pirated console games or don’t want to do modchips/firmwares or staying singleplayer.

So pirates are always a problem! But on the PC it is sure MORE because of no modchip/firmware needed and the better contact to the medium called “internet”.

I for my self like to buy a multiplayer game for PC like UT3, Q4, CS1.6, Warcraft3 or ET:QW when i will like it. Buyed BF2142, was bullshit, selled it, done.
But if i would have a Xbox360 at home i would pirate it and have CastleCrashers (!!!GREAT!!!) pirated at home and Gears Of War (for the tryout and fun factor) and so on… but wouldn’t play online. Didn’t even like to pay monthly for xboxlive, what if i don’t play a month… Expensive games and than the money making live future…
PC’s are online at home for me not consoles. You can’t have the same gaming for 3DShooters and Strategies on console. Remember Q3CPMA? Do that skill and speed on console ;).
For someone that is not a big PC user, but a consoler, will think totally different. It’s what your looking for.

The consoles and console games have to big arcade factors and thats fun, look at the Gears sales! The sales make the console so big.

(leifhv) #42

‘Funcom Switches to Online-Only Games, Blames Piracy’

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158039

“Several stats he listed were startling if … true, including that 200,000 illegal copies of Dreamfall had been downloaded before the game was even released and anywhere from three to ten copies of any PC game are pirated for each one sold. Adventure Gamers suggests that future offline games such as Dreamfall Chapters may require an active internet connection to prove authenticity when you play, similar to how Steam works.”

(Svanire) #43

It annoys me that companies who pioneered on the PC(and are only successful because of PC gamer’s money) and jumping to another platform for a bullshit reason such as piracy. As another poster suggested, It’s just a scapegoat to move to another platform, to follow the money. Remember it is easier to make a good console game than it is to make a good PC game.

I don’t blame piracy. The people that have always bought games will continue to buy games. The pirates will continue to pirate.

Nothing to lose, nothing to gain.

(leifhv) #44

So you’re saying that a company operating in a market economy should stay with the platform they originally started out on not regardless of what happens?

Of course it’s done to follow the money…nobody is denying that. It’s not the piracy it self that is the problem. It’s the money lost due to piracy.

Not when there are no more games to pirate…

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.

(MuffinMan) #45

it’s just economically more resonable to develop for the consoles - right -but the reason is imho not piracy, it’s easier developing and the bigger playerbase

if you develop for pc you have to care for operating systems, even versions of operating systems, openGL, directX, changing processing power, lots of different graphics cards, sound cards, and so on and so on…

it’s a lot more work to test the game and more difficult to design the technical part having to consider all sorts of systems while a console always has fixed specs. more work = more money to spend. it’s that easy, jumping on the “ahhh I’m so poor I’m ripped of by pirates in the thousands - train” is just the common way to explain it.

I see the problem with single player games though (in any case not multiplayer - use a cd key and thats it) but as I’m not playing any single player I never cared much…

(leifhv) #46

Yes, hence my ‘one of the reasons’ comment in an earlier post. But putting effort into making a PC game is much more viable if people buy it instead of pirate it so piracy is still at the root of the problem.

(MuffinMan) #47

for multiplayer games - no it’s not, for single player you may be right - but still they are copied too for consoles, it won’t change a thing to develop for them

(Svanire) #48

I don’t buy into the whole “money lost to piracy”. You cannot think as a game as already sold until the transaction. With piracy there is obviously no transaction so no money is gained or lost it it is merely the copying transfer of data. It is also under the ridiculous assumption that for every 100k pirated copies out there if piracy didn’t exist than these people would’ve bought the game. (unlikely, not practical, wouldn’t happen)

Yes in an ideal world people wouldn’t look to get peoples hard work for free but in reality it happens all the time, every single minute of everyday. That’s life. The point is moot.

The console market is huge compared to the PC market who have machines good enough to run newest triple A titles. So in my opinion developers are using piracy to shanghai there PC fans (who have made them a successful company) and give them something to blame.

If you don’t agree with what I’m getting at thats ok, I respect and understand your opinion I just don’t agree with it.

If it makes any difference, as an issue of ethics I chose to buy my games and support developers for there hard work into a title which is why I get kind of mad when they jump for the money instead of the original base community and I will not accept the blame being put on the pirates.

My 2cents.

(Kendle) #49

Can’t agree with that.

By extension, assuming we’re talking digital distribution (i.e. no box / shipping / distribution costs), if EVERYONE acquired the game illegally the developers would’ve lost nothing?

It’s not the material cost of the game that has value, it’s the gazillions of hours the developers have paid their staff to produce the game that has value, and selling the game is how they get that cost back. The fact it costs nothing to “acquire” digital media doesn’t mean that media has no value and cost nothing to produce.

Even the argument that a sale is not a sale until the transaction doesn’t hold water. Whilst maybe technically true anyone that produces something, at up-front costs to themselves, intending to then sell that something to recoup those costs and make a profit, does so in the reasonable expectation that sales will be forthcoming. By stealing the product you’ve stolen the pro-rata man-hours the producer would otherwise have reasonably expected you to pay for and which formed the basis of their decision to develop the product in the first place.

And whilst I’d agree that 100k pirated copies does not equate to 100k lost sales, it does equate to “some” lost sales, the “some” possibly being a significant number in terms of revenue the developer now does not have to invest in their next title.

To say it’s not stealing because if you hadn’t of stolen it you wouldn’t have paid for it anyway is bullshit.

(einer) #50

Thats also right. But that problem is not new.

(Ifurita) #51

I have to laugh when I see people trying to defend piracy. If someone came into my house and took my TV (because I had “enough of them”) or took my car (because I could “afford it”), no one would argue that would be wrong.

But extend that concept to games, music, video, etc and all of a sudden it’s OK.

SD has spent years developing ET:QW. Count up the cost of staff, facilities, infrastructure, etc … who do you think is bankrolling this? Assuming it’s not the developers themselves, since love of the game doesn’t put food on the table (never mind ferraris).

So let’s assume that id and ATVI have invested funds to support SD through the development process. Would you think that they’d expect to make at least what they invested + a return? After all, instead of risking the funds on SD, they could just put their funds into CDs and earn 5%.

If companies in general, think their returns will be submarket (crappy games, piracy, changing interest in gaming), there will simply be less investment in new development.

(leifhv) #52

In general the PC games market is comparable in size to the market for a single console.

(Sauron|EFG) #53

That’s hardly the same thing, but piracy is still both illegal and morally wrong (and of course hurting the developers/publishers financially).

Unfortunately a lot of game & music publishers are just as bad when they for example install CD/DVD drivers and other forms of copy protection without consent from the user, and without any possibility to uninstall (even when the games are uninstalled).

/still pissed about D3 f*cking up my CD burner and forcing me to download a cracked exe to be able to play without the disc spinning in the reader.

(k0k0nat) #54

Do they mean the screens, where somebody upped screens with the horsecock-chat ? :smiley:

(SKaREO) #55

Developers get paid if a game flops, or becomes a #1 title. They get more money if its a great success, obviously. Tell me a game developer who isn’t getting paid at SD, and if its true he must be a shareholder as well. Obviously the executives and shareholders hate losing money, but I think most developers can still be happy without a Ferrari, as long as they can sleep at night knowing they created a gaming masterpiece. If the game is fun, people WILL pay for it, even the worst pirates buy good games.

What is the “video gaming industry” all about? Money? Or is it art, and fun, and a way to make a living by making other people happy? See, piracy may be video-game executives and distributors worst nightmare, but I don’t think it hurts developers as much, or at least it shouldn’t. Let’s focus on the games and not the money, and if you can’t afford piracy then you better introduce an online distribution and verification model the way Blizzard and Valve have.

I could be talking out my ass here, but when you say: “Who do you think pays for this development cost?” in fact, its us, the gamers. We helped build these businesses just as much as they’ve helped us have fun. Its our money to begin with.

(Nail) #56

very few game development companies start off with any money other than their own imo

(SKaREO) #57

Developers that are just starting up are the guys who really get hurt in this industry, because they simply don’t have the money to buy licenses for 3D engines (such as Source or D3) to start making the awesome games. Of course the company puts money down to develop the game, and then we the gamers deciede whether to purchase the game or not, its a fair trade and in most cases its in the favor of the development company at least 3:1. The only thing we have to choose with is information, and when the info turns out to be biased or just plain false, we get pissed off.

Splash Damage was a start up development crew, and they really showed the community something worth investing in. Now I would say they are on track to being one of the greatest game developers out there.

(igl) #58

omg 4 billion Yep! Copys != Missed Sales.

Thinking about reality:
Every action has been taken to make the ILLEGAL copy even more comfortable to install and run. I bought games to write off the key and never even touched the CD again. So i am someone who got a copy, and bought it for a key to play online.
Oh no! I’m falling out of the demographic chart.

Before all the game devs starve to death:
Make your consumer not hate your DRM. (aka: make the online key verification compulsory, or leave it unsecure and make everyone hate your product for buying your product)
Give me digital distribution that doesn’t suck. Try Guild Wars for example, that’s how i want to buy every game.

(Lanz) #59

Every discussion about piracy is usually all black and white, as in either piracy is rampant and developers is starving because no one buys their games or that developers are making hughe amount of money and has at least two Ferraies and 15 BMW’s just for fun.

The problem is usually something in between ofc, take the example of the 100,000 pirated copies, had everyone bought it if they couldn’t get their hand on it illegaly? Of course not, but quite a few had. If only 5% had bought it, and I think that’s a low number that’s a lost sale of 5000 copies.

As someone said, it’s not about the physical media but the actual content that’s expensive to make and too many people nowdays do think that they don’t actually steal it since they’re “only” copying it.

Though I do know that many people download games just to check them out as a demo and buy them if they’re any good. Just as many people get burnt buying crappy games not worth the insane price tags games have these days and that many gamers that actually buy their games feel ripped off for having to deal with all the DRM crap nowdays while the pirates download the game ripped from all that shit.

(shadrach) #60

a Steam-like substance seems to be the only way to stop the bleeding… never thought I’d say that.