TO FIX THE "MATCH MAKING" ISSUE...

(Carniege) #1

… why doesn’t the game simply add servers with more players and obviously, to complement that, bigger maps?

What do you guys think? Apart from forced autoshuffle in a clear imbalance I couldn’t think of any other things possible so I’m just throwing ideas out there for consideration. I’d love to hear everyone else’s ideas too because I only see people crying rather than giving any good ideas (except the autoshuffle)

  1. In games such as 8 v 8 it is very easy to make the game unbalanced. It’s extremely easy because if 2 people leave then that’s already a 6 v 8. Those 2 people are a good 25% of the team. Moreover, if it’s a 6 v 6, losing 2 people will make the game so much more imbalanced.

Therefore, if we have games such as 15 vs 15, then if 1 team loses 2 people, it wouldn’t be such a massive loss to make the game a mega stomp or whatever to the other team.

  1. For the issue of 1 amazing great player making the player count wise teams imbalanced due to his unbelievable skill, these 15 vs 15 games will also somewhat solve this issue. Firstly, there would be more cannon fodder to distract him whilst engineers do their job and secondly it is much more likely that out of 15 players on the enemy team, there would be someone to put up a fight against him.

Other games that allow more players in their matches usually have less imbalance and it is a much lower issue on the forums and stuff.

Now, I understand that 15 vs 15 is going to be so massive in an objective based games, which is why I suggested bigger maps to be also added with this. By adding bigger maps we could accompany more players to stop the mayhem that would happen.

AND ALSO BECAUSE THIS IS AN OBJECTIVE BASED GAME, 15 vs 15 with only 1 objective per wave thing may be too hectic so maybe have 2 objectives per wave that have to completed?

OR MAYBE ADD THESE NUMBERS FOR ANOTHER GAME MODE - THE FORUMS WANTED POINT CAPTURE THING THE MOST RIGHT? If we add 15 vs 15 into those game modes (and maybe not objective or stopwatch) then it might help the imbalance issue.

MAYBE.

(RyePanda) #2

15 v 15 may be too hard on the servers, and it sounds like a lot of work. You want them to make new maps for this? And what about the 6 v 6 through 8v8 games? This doesn’t solve their problem.

(Carniege) #3

@RyePanda yeah maybe 15 vs 15 is a bit too high, but it should solve the issues for at least the matches that would have those. And we’ll probably need new maps for the new gamemodes that the community very wants (which will probs be added a lot later but still) anyway. Dome should fit 12 vs 12 because it’s quite massive too.

And yeah I know it doesn’t solve their problem, but I meant that in the future if DB will get new maps, gamemodes or whatever, if we use the more player system we should stop the problem arising.

As for now, the autoshuffle idea is probably the best to keep the 6 v 6 to 8 v 8 games somewhat balanced.

Or we just get rid of the 6 v 6 and 7 v 7, and have 8 v 8 as being the lowest for the smallest maps.

(wolvie) #4

I would hate this game if I was forced to play spammy 8v8s

(LifeupOmega) #5

Anything above 6v6 is already awful. I’d hate this.

(Carniege) #6

@wolvie @LifeupOmega why do you guys not like a lot of players per team? Is it cause of the map sizes or cause of the fact that it’s an objective based game?

(MTLMortis) #7

The game is not in any way designed around that. This is not Battlefield.

(Carniege) #8

@MTLMortis what do you mean?

(LifeupOmega) #9

The game is designed around 5v5, the mercs are designed around 5v5, more players is more spam and less teamwork and efficient, coordinated plays.

(Carniege) #10

@LifeupOmega well I’m sure 6 v 6 will still stay in the game, I’m just suggesting more servers with higher player counts simply to try to go against imbalance

(Amerika) #11

This game and it’s maps were designed around 5v5 Stopwatch. That means abilities and merc balance is mostly thought about in 5v5 terms. When you start putting even more mercs on a server than what you see in 8v8 then you get nothing but explosions and spam all over the place. You could have a team of Skyhammers dropping airstrikes pretty consistently. You’d never have a tactical safe spot and you could kill 4, 5 or 6 people and still get murdered by a ton more only to have your whole team sit there and not push.

In a way it does sort of offset the skill imbalance issue because when you scale players up the loss of players and the skill of a singular individual would be valued less. Still important but not as big of a factor. So I get what you’re proposing but you would be trading that in for a virtually unplayable mess of a game that is nothing but explosive spam. You’d go from a game focused on shooting to a game that is mostly RNG if you explode or not from one second to the next. Also, it would have a huge performance impact on a lot of players as many don’t have that great of PC’s in the first place (especially in the F2P market).

Also, “imbalance” is defined differently by different people as well. Many people think a game is imbalanced if they lose or are losing (even if they pull off a win). That topic has been discussed quite a bit in other threads.

(Carniege) #12

@Amerika I had a long reply but I thought that it’s pointless as dirty bomb with all the merc’s abilities wont allow for 15 vs 15 and you’re right.

The question I came to is, is there a way to make 1 player less valued on a team but keep the number of players down?

Whoever can answer that will basically solve the issue. But for now autoshuffle should do.

P.S. but if we have much bigger maps like dome x2 wouldn’t 15 vs 15 somewhat work? If players are spread out it shouldn’t allow for more spam, it should stay the same as now shouldn’t it

(Amerika) #13

[quote=“Carniege;140830”]@Amerika I had a long reply but I thought that it’s pointless as dirty bomb with all the merc’s abilities wont allow for 15 vs 15 and you’re right.

The question I came to is, is there a way to make 1 player less valued on a team but keep the number of players down?

Whoever can answer that will basically solve the issue. But for now autoshuffle should do.

P.S. but if we have much bigger maps like dome x2 wouldn’t 15 vs 15 somewhat work? If players are spread out it shouldn’t allow for more spam, it should stay the same as now shouldn’t it[/quote]

You’d destroy what Dirty Bomb is. A very tight fast paced team game that has a lot of unique abilities that are effective but not overpowered in small quantities. You’d downgrade a players experience from being a cog that helps contribute to a win to being a slight breeze that might or might not factor into the game. And do it all to fix an issue that can’t be fixed but only slightly lessened while creating tons of other problems including community segregation in regards to playing on big teams/maps to performance. And you’ll lose the spirit of what defines and separates what DB is IMO.

(Carniege) #14

@Amerika Again, had a whole essay to agree with you and disagree and stuff but it’s too long and basically, yeah you’re right. If a player is good he should be better than other players and it should show in how the game is going.

Well, what about adding more filtered servers? Such as servers for players level 10-25, 26-50 and so on, so that that can somewhat try to resolve the issue of skill based imbalance? I know old players can go and make new accounts to abuse new players but we can limit 1 person to like 2 accounts so that doesn’t happen.

Of course that would only somewhat fix the skill offset, not the number of people per team imbalance issues…

(Autoshuffle is still the main thing here I’m just trying to think of other ways we can overcome the issues)

(Amerika) #15

[quote=“Carniege;140859”]@Amerika Again, had a whole essay to agree with you and disagree and stuff but it’s too long and basically, yeah you’re right. If a player is good he should be better than other players and it should show in how the game is going.

Well, what about adding more filtered servers? Such as servers for players level 10-25, 26-50 and so on, so that that can somewhat try to resolve the issue of skill based imbalance? I know old players can go and make new accounts to abuse new players but we can limit 1 person to like 2 accounts so that doesn’t happen.

Of course that would only somewhat fix the skill offset, not the number of people per team imbalance issues…

(Autoshuffle is still the main thing here I’m just trying to think of other ways we can overcome the issues)

[/quote]

That would mean that every level 10, 20, 30 etc. were at the same skill level. You then create issues with players who have played a long time to accrue a high level but don’t have a skill that has went up linearly with it. Right now the matchmaking system actually tries to match teams up by measure actual and recent skill. The perception of imbalanced matches right now is off the charts. A guy I played against last night was level 7 and playing extremely well and he was not a smurf. The balance system put me on the opposite side of him because of this due to it using actual performance as the metric for balance as opposed to something like a level. So him and I were never on the same team. A system that goes by levels only might have put me on the same team with him. I doubt you’d disagree and say, “yes, that sounds perfectly balanced” haha.

(Nail) #16

Nexon’s servers can barely handle 5 v 5 at times, anything bigger would be a disaster

(Carniege) #17

@Amerika okay we’re getting somewhere. Yes the level thing was stupid I agree, however it got me to a new point. What if we have an autojoin system where players can join matches with other players of around the same skillset based on this last 25 matches thing that MM goes by? So like, have the server list still, but have a separate hidden server list for this special autojoin feature. Lets say it works by ranking from 1 to 10, we can have servers with players ranked 1-3 in the last 25 matches, 4-6 and 7-10. If that makes sense?

But yeah I totally agree, some higher ranked players definitely don’t live up to what people think they should be aka to get like 20k scores and stuff whereas some single digit players do.

@Nail ahah that’s true

(Amerika) #18

[quote=“Carniege;140883”]@Amerika okay we’re getting somewhere. Yes the level thing was stupid I agree, however it got me to a new point. What if we have an autojoin system where players can join matches with other players of around the same skillset based on this last 25 matches thing that MM goes by? So like, have the server list still, but have a separate hidden server list for this special autojoin feature. Lets say it works by ranking from 1 to 10, we can have servers with players ranked 1-3 in the last 25 matches, 4-6 and 7-10. If that makes sense?

But yeah I totally agree, some higher ranked players definitely don’t live up to what people think they should be aka to get like 20k scores and stuff whereas some single digit players do.

@Nail ahah that’s true [/quote]

That’s exactly what ranked is though. Like, that is the whole point of having ranked. The point of having open pub servers is that you can join or leave any of them at any time with no consequences whatsoever and you’re there to play instead of having a more competitively balanced experience.

And yeah, I think the server hardware outside of the US is especially sketchy or they are getting a bit too close to the resource limit on a few of their physical machines. I’ve had only a few problems personally on US servers but I hear a lot about how nasty things can be on the EU side specifically.

(MTLMortis) #19

A lot of the perception of matchmaking can be dissuaded by showing us an actual formula for their skill ranking and/or implement an actual skill ranking per account/merc.

Sure levels mean nothing, but a lot of the pleebs have nothing else to go on, no matter how often I explain that levels only mean time in game not skill. Yes it accounts for some part of skill but at most perhaps 10-20%.

THAT BEING SAID, team matching by skill is horribly off.

(Carniege) #20

@Amerika so we’ve came to the conclusion in pubs there’s nothing but autoshuffle possible. And people are just being salty losers cause I’ve just played like 20 games which were unbalanced at least once per match but they rebalanced themselves when new players joined. Good talk ahaha but thanks for the insight :slight_smile:

@MTLMortis yes I agree that would be a great idea! I think anyway. To be honest considering that match making already works based on the skill of one’s last 25 matches, so basically what you’re saying is what’s actually happening, but over the last 25 games period.

BUT, there is another game called World of Tanks which has these “skill ranks”. So an average player is around 5-6k points and they’re based on base capture, kills, damage dealt, damage blocked and all of that stuff. So I think if we implement something like that instead of these levels which just show us time spent in the game, it would be a lot better.

I don’t know if any of you know about this mod called XVM? It works with this World of Tanks game and you can get that multi digit number condensed out of 100 and when you press tab in the matches in the game you can see everyone’s “skill level”.

So if that’s what youre trying to say then I totally agree with you it would be a great idea. Nothing to do with balancing but still great idea.