To all the K/D haters out there...

(BRAVOMIKE87) #121

[QUOTE=ThePilgrim101;292656]False Dichotomy.

If you’re not killing, you’re either:

A) Doing the objective stealthily

B) Doing the objective in plain sight

C) Dying

or D) None of the above.[/QUOTE]

when someone is…oh planting a charge, regardless if they did it “stealthily” or in plain sight the other team is going to come your way to defuse it. If you cannot defend properly and end up dying that gives them a chance to defuse.

if your not killing, your dying. don’t go english professor on me, doesn’t do you good here sir.

(Szakalot) #122

[QUOTE=Weapuh;292663]If it were a game that was solely deathmatch i would look at KDR and kills per minute and where you play.

However in Brink if I were forced to look at a stat it would be KDR and XP/Min not Kills/minute since kills/minute would be screwed up by offense/defense roles.[/QUOTE]

why would it be screwed up? Its pretty safe to assume that people in general play a similar amount of offense vs. defense.

But we both agree that stats alone are not a reason enough to make good judgements. That is true for all kinds of statistics, RL or games. However, patterns can be detected, and when you dont have enough time to look at individual cases, statistics is your next best option.

(Herandar) #123

How exactly would you know that? 9 posts does not give you a intimate knowledge of the culture of this forum.

(NuMbzZz) #124

wrong.
depends on how good their teamwork is and how good the xp team can actually shoot
completing objectives is just pressing a button, so while u may have teammates watching ur back and keeping the enemy at bay and gettin minimal xp and u get a **** tonne for simply pressing a button u need to ask yourself who was more useful in the cappin of the objective, my teammates who kept the enemy at bay blocking off choke points or me who just conveniently popped in and pressed a button and planted the charge?

if it wasnt for ur teammates killing and having ur back u wont be able to secure the objective

we dont just rambo in and go blindly for the objectives, we secure the area and setup to block off chokepoint and flanking routes then cap the objective , sometimes it isnt always perfect but we at least make sure to clear as many out before goin for the objective as it makes it alot easier

(Szakalot) #125

Want to try for round 2?

Sure

[QUOTE=ThePilgrim101;292667]1) But it still breaks the false-dichotomy. And it can be done. And it doesn’t involve dying.

  1. Not if you’re playing with decent teammates who can guard your behind. And it breaks the false dichotomy. And it doesn’t necessarily involve dying.[/quote]

I do not grant you that case. We have to discuss particular scenarios within some limits and assumptions, otherwise anything is a false-dichotomy of anything else, because no two things can be clearly defined as being opposite.

While ‘if your not killing your dying’ is not an absolutely true statement, its true enough (at least for me) to make sense and reflect upon.
I find the logical connection between one and the other sound.

(Herandar) #126

Neither Tok nor you can do anything more than speculate on the outcome of a hypothetical situation. You can’t say “wrong” with any sort of assurance.

And I thought posting with my foot was the most ridiculous low this thread would reach…

(NuMbzZz) #127

[QUOTE=Weapuh;292663]If it were a game that was solely deathmatch i would look at KDR and kills per minute and where you play.

However in Brink if I were forced to look at a stat it would be KDR and XP/Min not Kills/minute since kills/minute would be screwed up by offense/defense roles.[/QUOTE]

now we getting somewhere. i agree with this. which is why we do tryouts and not just base solely on kdr. KDR is the 3rd thing on our list

1.teamwork
2.communication
3.skill
4.competitive minded
5.consistency

(Szakalot) #128

[QUOTE=Herandar;292677]
And I thought posting with my foot was the most ridiculous low this thread would reach…[/QUOTE]

It was pretty hilarious though, wasnt it.

(BRAVOMIKE87) #129

First off I just recently joined because I’m only interested in BRINK. Second, I don’t care if you have 9 posts or over 1,000, acting like you have some seniority in these forums based off how many posts you have is quite nerd-like on your part.

I see the culture of these forums by reading with my own eyes. I see trolls, valid discussions between people, and people who just don’t know what the **** they are talking about. It’s like any other forum just based off different games.

Now how about you get off my nuts and lets get back to the topic @ hand. k? thanks.

(ThePilgrim101) #130

[QUOTE=Szakalot;292675]
While ‘if your not killing your dying’ is not an absolutely true statement, its true enough (at least for me) to make sense and reflect upon.
I find the logical connection between one and the other sound.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t matter. BravoMike used it as an absolute. Ergo, he created a false-dichotomy that can be easily deconstructed. It is not true that, if you are not killing, you are dying because there are a number of things you could be doing instead.

Going back to “objectives,” you should keep in mind that Brink has plenty of objectives including things such as “Construct an MG nest” or “revive teammates”. Such things do not indicate an absolute confrontation with the enemy, and still break the false dichotomy.

“at least for me” – Thankfully, logic has to make sense to everyone and not just you.

It is not true that, if you are not killing, you’re dying. You can run around in rhetorical dyslexia all you want, but you’ve still yet to prove the dichotomy which is the stance you’ve taken.

(tokamak) #131

[QUOTE=NuMbzZz;292674]wrong.
depends on how good their teamwork is and how good the xp team can actually shoot[/QUOTE]

You’re saying the k/d team will win from the xp/hour team? I’m willing to bet a lot of money on the xp/hour team.

Here’s the catch, an xp/hour team will most likely have a k/d approximating the k/d team, while the k/d team offers no such guarantee for having a good xp/hour.

And that is all I need to prove that xp/hour is a better indicator than k/d. I’m evaluating the elephant while you keep staring yourself blind at it’s tail.

(ThePilgrim101) #132

And what if the objective is to spot a mine? Or revive a teammate? Can you be absolutely sure that an enemy will come along?

The answer is No. Ergo, your assertion of the absolute dichotomy is wrong because you cannot be reasonably certain that you will die if you do not kill. You could, in effect, stand in your home base the entire game and never die. You’re not killing…but you’re not dying either.

Try again, this time with more education.

if your not killing, your dying. don’t go english professor on me, doesn’t do you good here sir.

Actually, it’s logic and reason. You know, that thing you got rid of when you decided to be a moron?

(NuMbzZz) #133

im saying its based off a number of different things besides just kdr and xp alone
i gave u an example above how someone can get good xp by not really doin much and just being the one to press a button and get the charge off etc

its not as simple as just kdr and xp to declare a winner

(brbrbr) #134

Cha0tikz was perfectly represent gameplay ruiner from MMORPG World or CSS/BF/CoD alikes.
ETQW was based/focused around team-play/co-operation.
doing objectives, ie become part of something, BIGGER[&more interesting, likely]than statswhoring.

(tokamak) #135

[QUOTE=NuMbzZz;292695]im saying its based off a number of different things besides just kdr and xp alone
i gave u an example above how someone can get good xp by not really doin much and just being the one to press a button and get the charge off etc

its not as simple as just kdr and xp to declare a winner[/QUOTE]

We’re discussing the best indicator here. I propose xp/min as THE best single statistic that reflects the skill of a player, if you’re not willing to give an alternative to this then I suppose there isn’t any.

(NuMbzZz) #136

[QUOTE=brbrbr;292699]Cha0tikz was perfectly represent gameplay ruiner from MMORPG World or CSS/BF/CoD alikes.
ETQW was based/focused around team-play/co-operation.
doing objectives, ie become part of something, BIGGER[&more interesting, likely]than statswhoring.[/QUOTE]

he never said not doing objectives isnt important and never said anything about statwhoring
READ AND UNDERSTAND the points ppl tryin to make before just saying/impying that ppl with high kds are stat whores

(BRAVOMIKE87) #137

[QUOTE=ThePilgrim101;292687]It doesn’t matter. BravoMike used it as an absolute. Ergo, he created a false-dichotomy that can be easily deconstructed. It is not true that, if you are not killing, you are dying because there are a number of things you could be doing instead.

Going back to “objectives,” you should keep in mind that Brink has plenty of objectives including things such as “Construct an MG nest” or “revive teammates”. Such things do not indicate an absolute confrontation with the enemy, and still break the false dichotomy.

“at least for me” – Thankfully, logic has to make sense to everyone and not just you.

It is not true that, if you are not killing, you’re dying. You can run around in rhetorical dyslexia all you want, but you’ve still yet to prove the dichotomy which is the stance you’ve taken.[/QUOTE]

your stance is based off assuming you won’t confront the enemy. this isn’t The Sim’s guy where you can go and build what you please.

you act like when doing these objectives, that your going to be free to just walk right in and do what you please. to say you won’t ever meet resistance is WRONG on your part, your going to partake in a gunfight sooner or later and dying doesn’t help you get anything done.

(tokamak) #138

[QUOTE=NuMbzZz;292695]im saying its based off a number of different things besides just kdr and xp alone
i gave u an example above how someone can get good xp by not really doin much and just being the one to press a button and get the charge off etc

its not as simple as just kdr and xp to declare a winner[/QUOTE]

We’re discussing the best indicator here. If there’s one single indicator you could have to get an idea about the player’s skill, which one would it be?

I propose xp/min as THE best single statistic that reflects the skill of a player, if you’re not willing to give an alternative to this then I suppose there isn’t any.

(NuMbzZz) #139

thats the thing there ISNT a single best indicator as i pointed out to u that xp can be whored/farmed as well just as kdr hence the reason i stated u still need to actually PLAY with the ppl before making a definite judgement on 1s skill. thank u.

(Szakalot) #140

You do not know whether he used it as an absolute, that is youre assertion. Thus your whole argument falls on its head. I’m not gonna bother to respond to the rest, as (to me) your clearly more interested in a confrontation itself, rather than reaching meaningful conclusions.

I would love you to show me an argument outside a philosophical environment that has all the logical steps laid out, one by one.
Preferably in politics.

I actually doubt that any such discussion exists, just like a mathematical theorem is not bothering to lay out all the previous knowledge defining mathematics, until the basic math assumptions.