Tighten spread, reduce damage

(suho) #281

[QUOTE=TONSCHUH;347432]… maybe they should only make your team mates / team bots a little bit smarter … especially when you have to rely on your bot mates in the campaign (on hard), you are lost … if you’re not able to improve your skills anymore, then you’re stuck in the game … would be good if the AI would analyse your actual performance when you play to adapt the skills of your team mate bots … so if you have a good day, the bots can play more brainless, but if you have a really bad day or your just not able to crack a level, the bots in your team should act with improved skills … it’s pretty much frustrating sometimes, that we have this pretty much brain-death team mates (bots), but the enemy bots are head-shot machines … it would be also a good idea, if we could spawn into the game at the last / closest command post we captured (in relation to your next objective) … always to run back over half the map is pretty much uncool …

:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

You are discussing something way off-topic this has nothing to do with making the weapons more/less accurate, which is what this thread ia about. You talking about the performance of the bot in terms of aiming not the weapons themselves.

(Apoc) #282

Updated OP with shirosaes pics, ty

#283

[QUOTE=shirosae;347418]The problem isn’t that people don’t understand his argument. It’s that his argument is based on something that isn’t true.

ETQWpro has three spread settings:

The default: which is ETQW’s default vanilla.
Optional: Which is ETQW’s rank3 aim upgrade, basically unlocked from the start.
Optional: Another spread which is a bit tighter than rank3.

None of them set all stances/ironsight spreads to the same value. His argument is based on something that exists only in the fantasy realm in his head.

Back on topic: For anyone who still doesn’t understand why tight spread != easy headshots:

This player is a good shot:

This player is not so good a shot:

Who wins? The person with better aim.

Now let’s try the same thing again with massive spread:

This player is a good shot:

This player is not so good a shot:

Who wins? Whoever the diceroll favours.

Lastly, I’m fine with the idea of a small amount of centre-weighted spread on guns where it makes some sense (like an SMG, if you relate it to the weight and shape of the weapon).

The idea that you turn the focus from lottery-spread into control of (vertical) recoil, and have ironsights enhance recoil control is genius. I much preferred this recoil in the early DoD betas to CS’s odd pseudo-recoil thing. As a way of distinguishing weapon classes without turning everything into a lottery, I’d love to see how it plays in an ET gametype.

It might not suit everyone, but as an optional gunplay type I’d love to see that. Which is precisely the thing that ETQWpro offered, by the way. That’s why propub servers were amazing; the game could be tweaked to suit the players playing at the time.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post, those same pictures can also be used to perfectly explain the same spread used at different ranges! So “tight” is CQC (i.e. tight picture’s spread (meant for SMG battles)) and medium or further (i.e. BRINK SMG’s weak area.) If you want “tight” accuracy at range, use AR or LR’s. :wink:

So pick the right weapon for the right range and win the lottery every time! :smiley:

(Kalbuth) #284

Problem is that currently, the SMG spread is like the red one in the pics, even when facing your opponent from like 5 meters. That’s far too much spread
I can easily understand the mechanics used for 20+m away targets. Not 5m or less

(taodemon) #285

[QUOTE=Kalbuth;347455]Problem is that currently, the SMG spread is like the red one in the pics, even when facing your opponent from like 5 meters. That’s far too much spread
I can easily understand the mechanics used for 20+m away targets. Not 5m or less[/QUOTE]

The AR spread doesn´t seem to be much better either. They require less rounds to kill so you can burst fire to get better accuracy on the first few shots but they still spread horribly at just about any range.

Burst is also effective at range because you usually have more time to kill the opponent and can afford to take those moments between bursts for the spread cooldown to expire for better accuracy again, which at closer range doesn´t work so well against an smg because you are very limited in shooting time before you are dead. If you have ever gone full auto with an AR the spread seems to be a lot worse than full auto on an SMG and it doesn´t matter where you aim you will most likely hit everything but the target.

(RaKeD) #286

Suggestions 1 page before this page could be a solution to this problem.This could also work with shotguns.Here is as short extract:

Quote:

Instead of giving guns artifical buillet spread on distance so AS get s used give guns a stronger recoil while hip firing that needs to be compensated and reduce recoil when a gun is shouldered/using AS.

So AS are used for long distance shooting in order to have reduced recoil as the gun is shouldered so one can stay on a smaller target with the AS a lot easier.By this guns would have a simular spread and max spread while hip firing and AS but the recoil value changes.

In my opinion this is more believable and makes more sense gameplay wise as a gun isn’t magically chaning it’s bullet spread becoming a completely different gun because using Ironsights, it s just that it is better to control, resulting in a better pattern.

#287

[QUOTE=RaKeD;347471]The suggestions 1 page before this could be a solution to this problem.This could also work with shotguns.Here is as short extract:

Quote:

Instead of giving guns artifical buillet spread on distance so AS get s used give guns a stronger recoil while hip firing that needs to be compensated and reduce recoil when a gun is shouldered/using AS.

So AS are used for long distance shooting in order to have reduced recoil as the gun is shouldered so one can stay on a smaller target with the AS a lot easier.By this guns would have a simular spread and max spread while hip firing and AS but the recoil value changes.

In my opinion this is more believable and makes more sense gameplay wise as a gun isn’t magically chaning it’s bullet spread becoming a completely different gun because using Ironsights, it s just that it is better to control, resulting in a better pattern.[/QUOTE]

The bullets spread does not “magically change”, what “spread” is doing is adding the variable of your characters accuracy with that weapon, the accuracy of the gun itself (barrel length etc). You can aim a cursor with a mouse, but managing the recoil of an automatic weapon is hard to convey. So artificial spread is used, combined with “recoil” of the cursor. :wink:

(Kalbuth) #288

If you want to get all realism on it, do it the ArmA way, make a real recoil, and a real spread (which IRL is tiny, tiny, tiny compared to Brink)

But it’s not a realism decision, it’s not there to simulate the combined effect of recoil + character aim + weapon base spread.
It’s a gameplay design decision, nothing more. No need to explain the “why” in terms of realism. Just that spread is used to compensate for range and movement, or smtg

(suho) #289

[QUOTE=Kalbuth;347485]If you want to get all realism on it, do it the ArmA way, make a real recoil, and a real spread (which IRL is tiny, tiny, tiny compared to Brink)

But it’s not a realism decision, it’s not there to simulate the combined effect of recoil + character aim + weapon base spread.
It’s a gameplay design decision, nothing more. No need to explain the “why” in terms of realism. Just that spread is used to compensate for range and movement, or smtg[/QUOTE]

Yeah what good would a gun be that doesnt shoot straight :slight_smile:

#290

They combine, your character is running around one handed jumping over shizzle holding a SMG bustin’ caps. The spread is incorporated into this “messy” style. You want accurate headshots, use the appropriate weapon and posture. Light rifle sniping or AR with burst shots or in your face range SMG spray and pray!

(tokamak) #291

The game spread isn’t measured from the muzzle, it’s to account for the lack of a stable mouse and a crosshair in your vision.

(Kalbuth) #292

Errr…

OK, guys :stuck_out_tongue: Play ArmA, you’ll see what I mean

#293

I understand, played it. Completed it, enjoyed it. BRINK is not a sim, it is surreal. The gun mechanics are surreal. But they are based on real world mechanics, but not simulator-esque. It is a matter of taste. I like it as is, it is not “broken”. I like how it works, we are all the bad guys from movies, spraying and praying, nice messy gun fights. Aim is recognised with a greater proportion of your shots hitting, correct tactics, range, weapons, posturing and aiming skill = lots of shots hitting target! People dislike that last part, they want to parkour, with a fully automatic, short barrelled weapon with beyond expert marksmanship accuracy… lol. THAT is surreal/magical/unbelievable! :slight_smile:

(shirosae) #294

[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;347451]Excellent post, those same pictures can also be used to perfectly explain the same spread used at different ranges! So “tight” is CQC (i.e. tight picture’s spread (meant for SMG battles)) and medium or further (i.e. BRINK SMG’s weak area.) If you want “tight” accuracy at range, use AR or LR’s. :wink:

So pick the right weapon for the right range and win the lottery every time! :D[/QUOTE]

Sure, if you don’t mind the game turning into this.

Alternatively, you could see a tightening of spread as an effective increase in the range of all guns so that they’re useful at distances where dancing is an effective tactic.

#295

[QUOTE=shirosae;347511]Sure, if you don’t mind the game turning into this.

Alternatively, you could see a tightening of spread as an effective increase in the range of all guns so that they’re useful at distances where dancing is an effective tactic.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant stuff! :smiley:

Notice how they did not aim down the sight… I kid I kid… :tongue:

Too much spread is very bad, I agree, tightening up of spread would “suit me” too. All other considerations aside. But I am saying I like it how it is NOW and it is reasonable to me, considering the playstyle of BRINK. :penguin:

(Spendlove) #296

[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;347451]Excellent post, those same pictures can also be used to perfectly explain the same spread used at different ranges! So “tight” is CQC (i.e. tight picture’s spread (meant for SMG battles)) and medium or further (i.e. BRINK SMG’s weak area.) If you want “tight” accuracy at range, use AR or LR’s. :wink:

So pick the right weapon for the right range and win the lottery every time! :D[/QUOTE]

Using the spread photos. Should someone who is pinpoint accurate with a gun be using the light rifle? How about if they got closer before opening fire? Or burst fire? Or even just used the iron sights or attachment sights?

#297

Exactly dude! :cool:

Right gun + firing style for the range/target! :stroggbanana:

(Apoc) #298

What are you refering to when you say the light rifles? the 2 snipers?

(Spendlove) #299

Yes. Sorry I couldnt remember the full names for them.

(Apoc) #300

They have huge spread unscoped, making them useless close combat, so were you suggesting that the accurate players should be confined to long range combat?