Thunder's 'Flashbang' should be something they have to cook

(Monty) #1

Human beings are good at recognizing patterns, and I have waited to acquire personal data from observations by playing hours against both high and low level Thunder players. A pattern has emerged. In other words, whenever I play against an enemy Thunder, I can expect to be blinded without the ability to do anything about it. The screen just turns white, and I might just as well raise my hands off the keyboard and mouse because nothing I do matters until I respawn.

And the fact is that it is an incredibly easy ability to use. You just need to position thunder next to a corner, sidestep right, press a button, sidestep left, and then you just go kill some blind ducks that are often unable to move.

Thus, this ability should have at least a cooking timer - just like fragger’s grenade does. A bad throw would allow people a chance to get away. A cooking time would ensure that there is an actual downside to using thunder’s grenade.

I mean, you could also do the opposite. Make Fragger’s grenade explode just one second after the throw. Heck make Nader’s grenades also do the same. (My current experience from playing as a nader, the granades hit the enemy merc in the chest but fall down, only to explode way later and allowing enemy to move away.)

(everlovestruck) #2

Fragger’s grenade is EXPLOSIVE so it deals damage and insta-kills most mercs aimed to the face
Thunder’s grenade is NOT explosive and it does NOT deal damage. That’s the downside.

(CirclesofJerk) #3

As someone who bought Thunder with real money when he was released (kill me) I really miss the cooking.

(frostyvampire) #4

Fragger’s grenades kill you.
Thunder’s grenades just blind and slow you.

1 second is a BUNCH of time, when Thunder throws his nade there’s a red outline around it so it’s incredibly easy to see, just turn around and at worst you will get concussed.
If the Thunder does a popflash then you really have nothing to do, just spray until the blindness is over. But 90% of the time you will have enough time to look away

(kopyright) #5

Only if the enemy is too close for the grenade to arm.

(Cuck) #6

[quote=“Monty;30505”]Human beings are good at recognizing patterns, and I have waited to acquire personal data from observations by playing hours against both high and low level Thunder players. A pattern has emerged. In other words, whenever I play against an enemy Thunder, I can expect to be blinded without the ability to do anything about it. The screen just turns white, and I might just as well raise my hands off the keyboard and mouse because nothing I do matters until I respawn.

[/quote]

Human beings are good at recognizing patterns, and I have waited to acquire personal data from observations by playing hours against both high and low level “Fragger” players. A pattern has emerged. In other words, whenever I play against an enemy “Fragger”, I can expect to be GIBBED without the ability to do anything about it. The screen just turns Grey, and I might just as well raise my hands off the keyboard and mouse because nothing I do matters until I respawn.

And the fact is that it is an incredibly easy ability to use. You just need to position “Fragger” next to a corner, sidestep right, hold a button, sidestep left, and then you just get kill some ducks that are behind a cover or at a longer range.

Thus, this ability should have at least no cook grenade - just like thunder grenade does. A bad throw would allow people a chance to get away. A no cooking time would ensure that there is an actual downside to using “Fragger” grenade.

youre just describing fragger.

(_retired_) #7

[quote=“els;185342”]Fragger’s grenade is EXPLOSIVE so it deals damage and insta-kills most mercs aimed to the face
Thunder’s grenade is NOT explosive and it does NOT deal damage. That’s the downside.[/quote]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;185352”]Fragger’s grenades kill you.
Thunder’s grenades just blind and slow you.[/quote]

Love these uninformed comments.

You mean since it doesn’t deal damage and just BLINDS you or makes you basically incapacitated it has somehow “downside” or it’s effect is less than direct damage?

You know what I often do when I’m that position? just go “k” if spawn time is favourable because I know if the thunder in question is actually decent player, you are already dead.

I have lost all faith to these players/commentators.

(opicr0n) #8

Time to… retire? :naughty:

(DarkMatterMatt) #9

Agree with the title, disagree with the post

(_retired_) #10

[quote=“Opicron;185364”]Time to… retire? :naughty:
[/quote]Basically that is the only option since it’s clear that I and many others that have left before me have no part in this game.
TTK is going down, skilless mercs/weapons are getting buffs (including suicidal proxy mines) and SD doesnt’ get their **** together balance anything.

When Aoe of explosives have been toned down etc. there could have been point that this game has a chance to make it but there are still always new issues raising. And people nodding like hell to most utterly ridiculous concepts as long as it’s their favourite thing.

If most of the players/commentators are towards this kind of game which is in fact totally THE OPPOSITE what was once marketed Dirty Bomb to be and what I started playing year ago then there isn’t much to do or discuss.

With all these one button push wonders and guns that either require no aim at all or have so little time to react it’s basically fighting against army of shotguns/snipers the game has no place in category that would contain skillful shooters.

But at least some people get their money’s worth, I wouldn’t spend anymore dime in it.

(blufflord) #11

@retired

“You mean since it doesn’t deal damage and just BLINDS you or makes you basically incapacitated it has somehow “downside” or it’s effect is less than direct damage?”

errr, yeah. sure they cant react agaisnt thunder, but u still have to walk over and kill them from full hp. and thunder isnt exactly the fastest merc and moving is he?
whereas with fragger, the ones who dont die will me at less than half, so can easily get gunned down.

(_retired_) #12

Yeeeesh, I cannot stand these stupid incredibly intelligent (must be my english!) people any more.

(blufflord) #13

thanks for that very insightful response, now i can clearly see through a different perspective on this matter.
Oh wait, i forgot, u seem to think youre superior for having a different opinion, and so calling them stupid is enough of a demonstration of your intelligence.

(N8o) #14

It’s similar to McCree’s stun in Overwatch. Oh, sure, the fact that he has a stun isn’t OP by itself, but the damn fact that he has a right click that shoots 6 high damage bullets into you as you’re a sitting duck is what makes it broken. It’s the same thing with Thunder.

You get the Stark (any respectable player should use a Stark loadout) and a grenade that basically is a complete full-stop stun. If you’re trying to tell me that’s not broken, you’ve lost your damn mind.

(Eox) #15

No, an ability that basically impair your movement at 99% and prevent you to see in a game that requires you to be extremely mobile without any potent counterplay is not fair. Even if the ability doesn’t kill you, it’s not an excuse to make an ability so painful to counter. Especially when it means that 99% slow will get you killed very quickly, unless the Thunder in front of you and his teammates can’t catch you in up to 6 seconds. It’s part of the “fun breaking” flaws as well. A character with an ability that you can’t counter correctly won’t be fun to play against at all.

Why is it so hard to counter ? It’s the same problem Stoker’s Molotov has all over again : Thunder and Stoker can use their ability on the go and almost instantly. You can’t predict it and the radius is too big to be avoided. A lot of Stokers (myself included) will oftenly abuse the Molotov like some kind of “I win button” if the duel goes wrong or just to get a free kill on a light merc. How you do it ? Just switch to your molotov mid combat and toss it right at your opponent’s face. That’s the issue : you can use an ability with a pretty wide splash radius on the go, and as far as your aiming skills are not absurdly bad your opponents won’t dodge it. Thunder has the same issue. He will use the Concussion grenade the same way : on the go, without preparation, with just few differences (you’ll more use it to open a fight than anything). Of course, okay, the blinding effect is actually counterable if you don’t look directly at the concussion nade. But with just a 1 second fuse, it’s not the easiest task to do either. The Blinding effect can also still blind you while you were not looking at the molotov (happened to me way too oftenly).

The only difference and the reason why there’s not that much whine on the Molotov is that Molotov’s Cooldown is 40 seconds, and the Molotov’s direct damage got nerfed from 50 to 35, allowing to flee pretty reliably with a decent chunk of HP left. Meanwhile a concussion grenade go back every 15 seconds. This doesn’t mean that I consider Molotov’s situation good either. Unavoidable damage in a big radius, even if it won’t kill you that reliably, is still not such a good mechanic.

The thing is, like @Monty, I wouldn’t even really nerf the Concussion Grenade stat wise. there’s just something much more intelligent to do that would solve anything : bring cooking back. Putting cooking back in Thunder’s Concussion would just be the ideal fix to that issue without making Thunder go back in the underpowered state. It could even give interesting strategies : while it removes the ability to use it on the go potently, an explosion midair would be very useful to exploit the blinding effect at best. Actually bringing back cooking is something that a good part of the community would like to see, including @ThunderPro, our local and official Thunder enthousiast.

I could also suggest something about the molotov, but it’s not such a big priority right now and that would be off topic.

(kopyright) #16

[quote=“Opicron;185364”][quote=“retired;185362”]
I have lost all faith to these players/commentators.
[/quote]

Time to… retire? :naughty:
[/quote]

ba dum tss

(Cuck) #17

[quote=“retired;185371”][quote=“Opicron;185364”]Time to… retire? :naughty:
[/quote]Basically that is the only option since it’s clear that I and many others that have left before me have no part in this game.
TTK is going down, skilless mercs/weapons are getting buffs (including suicidal proxy mines) and SD doesnt’ get their **** together balance anything.

When Aoe of explosives have been toned down etc. there could have been point that this game has a chance to make it but there are still always new issues raising. And people nodding like hell to most utterly ridiculous concepts as long as it’s their favourite thing.

If most of the players/commentators are towards this kind of game which is in fact totally THE OPPOSITE what was once marketed Dirty Bomb to be and what I started playing year ago then there isn’t much to do or discuss.

With all these one button push wonders and guns that either require no aim at all or have so little time to react it’s basically fighting against army of shotguns/snipers the game has no place in category that would contain skillful shooters.

But at least some people get their money’s worth, I wouldn’t spend anymore dime in it.

[/quote]

soooo… basically any abilities that have the possibilities even a slight one of killing you is broken and ridiculous and you certainly wont use any of the merc because each of them has that posibility?

yup time to retire yourself

[quote=“Eox;185391”]No, an ability that basically impair your movement at 99% and prevent you to see in a game that requires you to be extremely mobile without any potent counterplay is not fair. Even if the ability doesn’t kill you, it’s not an excuse to make an ability so painful to counter. Especially when it means that 99% slow will get you killed very quickly, unless the Thunder in front of you can’t catch you in up to 6 seconds. It’s part of the “fun breaking” flaws as well. A character with an ability that you can’t counter correctly won’t be fun to play against at all.

I could also suggest something about the molotov, but it’s not such a big priority right now and that would be off topic.[/quote]

except stoker molotov now is not an instakill

“hurr there is no direct counter to thunder concussion”
what is health station

“hurr we need to bring cook back”

fragger have cook because his nade has better range than thunder dog poo concussion grenade

"hurr Even if the ability doesn’t kill you, it’s not an excuse to make an ability so painful to counter. "

whats the counter to headshot?
whats the counter to fragger cooked nade?
whats the counter to nader nade?
what the counter to red eye smoke and spotter?
whats the counter to arty artilery?
whats the counter to Phantom EMP?
whats the counter to stepping on proxy mines?
whats the counter to vasilli headshot instagib on low health?
whats the counter to skyhammer area denial?

yeah you who gives me disagree, give some argument will you…

(kopyright) #18

[quote=“Cuck;185395”]whats the counter to arty artilery?
whats the counter to skyhammer area denial?[/quote]
Guardian Angel augment and a visible airstrike/artillery marker.

(MarsRover) #19

“hurr I riducule people’s arguments and I am suprised they disagree with me”

(Icecoal) #20

He got a point there , fragger needs to cook his nade and he can only surprise you when he did it beforehand out of sight while thunder just throws it instantly on the ground and bang. You can also easy see when fragger is cooking his nade. I play thunder myself and also think he needs some tweaking