Thunder's 'Flashbang' should be something they have to cook

(SaulWolfden) #21

Stoker’s molotov was never an instant kill even pre nerf, it was possible for low hp mercs to survive direct hits.

(Eox) #22

I never mentionned those were instant kill. Or maybe you were not talking to me.

(SaulWolfden) #23

I never mentionned those were instant kill. Or maybe you were not talking to me.[/quote]

My message goes to anyone who continually spreads the disinformation of the myth that the molotov either has or still does instant kill low hp mercs on direct hits. I’m honestly sick of people still believing this nonsense. There’s a slight window to escape by jumping out of it before it spreads and does the initial damage.

(Eox) #24

I never mentionned those were instant kill. Or maybe you were not talking to me.[/quote]

My message goes to anyone who continually spreads the disinformation of the myth that the molotov either has or still does instant kill low hp mercs on direct hits. I’m honestly sick of people still believing this nonsense. There’s a slight window to escape by jumping out of it before it spreads and does the initial damage.[/quote]

I see. I edited my last post to make it less misleading.

(Icecoal) #25

[/quote]

whats the counter to headshot?
whats the counter to fragger cooked nade?
whats the counter to nader nade?
what the counter to red eye smoke and spotter?
whats the counter to arty artilery?
whats the counter to Phantom EMP?
whats the counter to stepping on proxy mines?
whats the counter to vasilli headshot instagib on low health?
whats the counter to skyhammer area denial?

yeah you who gives me disagree, give some argument will you…[/quote]

  1. Move around , dodge , make yourself hard to hit ?
  2. If you dont see it coming and he cooked it perfectly you cant but it requires some setup not just clicking the left mouse button.
  3. Come one , it so easy to dodge and the aoe is pretty small.
  4. Destroy the spotter , avoid redeye when he is in his smoke.
  5. You see a red dot on the ground an it makes so much noise you can easily notice it , even better with guardian angel. It also has a travel time with a small explosion radius , ez to dodge
  6. Just kill him? Its not like you are dead the moment he disables the healing station or whatever and he is easy to spot with the noise and his emp effect on deployables
  7. You can hear the mines and anticipate popular places for them. Bomb squad makes it ridiculous ez to spot em
  8. At least that requires some skill , try not to stand still and take cover , I dont know many snipers who always land headshots
  9. The CD is super long and what area denial ? It takes two seconds and the airstrike is gone , also easy to dodge considering the time it needs to land. You see this huge flare and the red sign on the ground warning you and giving you time to react.

With the short fuse time of thunders concuss you cant react to it , even turning around will still slow and blind you making you an easy target and with the short cd you can spam it without punishment. The aoe is also pretty big

(Cuck) #26

[quote=“kopyright;185405”][quote=“Cuck;185395”]whats the counter to arty artilery?
whats the counter to skyhammer area denial?[/quote]
Guardian Angel augment and a visible airstrike/artillery marker.

[/quote]

skyhammer drone will gib you none theless and a good arty/skyhammer doesnt aim at obvious spots.
and how do you counter area of denial again?
because you cant.

“hurr I riducule people’s arguments and I am suprised they disagree with me”[/quote]

when someone disagree with something at least give a counter argument about which and why im wrong. and @kopyright did just that (counter argument is good).

I never mentionned those were instant kill. Or maybe you were not talking to me.[/quote]

My message goes to anyone who continually spreads the disinformation of the myth that the molotov either has or still does instant kill low hp mercs on direct hits. I’m honestly sick of people still believing this nonsense. There’s a slight window to escape by jumping out of it before it spreads and does the initial damage.[/quote]

i actually just noticed this.
the molly hits me then i do a long jump to the stoker who threw the molly using aura and shot him.

(Pumpkiller) #27

I’m still trying to find how a -30 hp, slightly faster rhino with almost instant stun+slowdown+blind capabilities, with the ability to wield Starks, is in any way fair.
Just my 2 cents here.

(Cuck) #28

[quote=“Rexitech;185431”]I’m still trying to find how a -30 hp, slightly faster rhino with almost instant stun+slowdown+blind capabilities, with the ability to wield Starks, is in any way fair.
Just my 2 cents here.[/quote]

I’m still trying to find how a +20 hp, slightly slower skyhammer with almost instant kill+intimidation+area denial capabilities, with the ability to wield BR-16, is in any way fair.

(Pumpkiller) #29

[spoiler] I don’t really know why and how you’re not feeling any self-cringe over bullying pepole into arguing with you. @Cuck [/spoiler]

(Wall of text)
Anyway, the reason why i can see OP’s point, is that, let’s face it, concs, in their actual state have a skill floor and celling lower than fragger’s nades and equal to proxy’s mines.
With fragger, sure, you have high chances of insta gibbing pepole, but on the other side of the coin, his cooking time prevents him from being as “op” as most concs white knights claim him to be. In addition that it gives him extremely obvious patterns to when he actually is cooking a frag.

With thunder, you can’t predict when he is going to pop-flash, he will randomly throw it and here’s what happens:
1:you’re lucky enough to get away in less than 1 SECOND
2:you get the "lucky"7 (aka you get flashed, stunned and slowed down) and die.
3:you suceed in not looking directly to the flash, but unless you’re not a rhino, you get shot to your doom .because Thunder is a bullet sponge to anyone not good with headshots.

Just because the nade doesn’t directly kill you, it doesn’t mean it’s a pain in the a*s to counter.

This is the reason why OP thinks that Thunder needs a cooking timer on his nade.

(Herr_Hanz) #30

Molotovs dont instakill on impact, but the fire spreads so fast that you cant get away, if you get hit you die within 1 second.

(globalGale) #31

The sad fact is, the concs are both as OP as people claim them to be, and UP as others made them out to be.

Because the removal of the emp still makes it so that thunder himself has to charge into a fortified area. the deployables will still make short work of him.

He’s still a slow lumbering behemoth. dies real quick

(Cuck) #32

quote=“Rexitech;185445”

(Wall of text)
Anyway, the reason why i can see OP’s point, is that, let’s face it, concs, in their actual state have a skill floor and celling lower than fragger’s nades and equal to proxy’s mines.
With fragger, sure, you have high chances of insta gibbing pepole, but on the other side of the coin, his cooking time prevents him from being as “op” as most concs white knights claim him to be. In addition that it gives him extremely obvious patterns to when he actually is cooking a frag.

With thunder, you can’t predict when he is going to pop-flash, he will randomly throw it and here’s what happens:
1:you’re lucky enough to get away in less than 1 SECOND
2:you get the "lucky"7 (aka you get flashed, stunned and slowed down) and die.
3:you suceed in not looking directly to the flash, but unless you’re not a rhino, you get shot to your doom .because Thunder is a bullet sponge to anyone not good with headshots.

Just because the nade doesn’t directly kill you, it doesn’t mean it’s a pain in the a*s to counter.

This is the reason why OP thinks that Thunder needs a cooking timer on his nade.[/quote]

[spoiler]in a discussion

this is my point.

“hurr i disagree!”

point me where im wrong then

“hurr it doesnt matter, i just disagreed at your point!”[/spoiler]

[quote=“globalGale;185464”]

Because the removal of the emp still makes it so that thunder himself has to charge into a fortified area. the deployables will still make short work of him.

He’s still a slow lumbering behemoth. dies real quick[/quote]

do you know that his own concussion grenade have the same effect to thunder himself?
so he cant just throw it in a closed space and start shooting like in some imaginary land where you can kill everyone.

just say in situation X the players have an equal amount of experience and X level

a good thunder player needs to have a situational awareness and proper knowledge of the enemies he’s going to rush. first, does the room have med station and an aura? because a single med station can actually tank thunder stark damage and preventing a team wipe.

second, there are chances that they got slowed but can still see and wreck thunder.
so you have to place your concussion carefully.

third, now thunder cant disable turrets or any deployables in the room, so thunder stepping 2 mines and lock on from a turret definetly shredded.

thats why you should stick with your team, thats why you should not wander alone.
thats why you should always be near a medic, thats why you have teamwork

Tl;Dr if you dont stick to your team you die from thunder nade.

(Szakalot) #33

meh, grouping up is exactly what thunder wants, a single flash can basically give multiple kills to him and his team

(ClemClem7) #34

Thunder need cooking like fragger. It’s what make fragger not OP because when you see a fragger not shooting at you, you know that 3s later, a nade will blow your position up.
Then you can retreat, put you out of reach and he will wasted a grenade because no one to kill when he go out of his cover to nade you. If he stand still to see you and not waste his nade, he’s a sitting duck with a way to selfgib him in his hand if you manage to kill him within the 2s before he throw the grenade (quite easy).
His AoE is quite big, but it doesn’t kill you in the whole AoE. That’s the difference between fragger and thunder. The AoE (read: the radius of full or even partial effect) of the concussion grenade is bigger than the radius of kill of the grenade. And when you’re concussed, you just can’t escape at equivalent skill, because of high Hp pool of thunder and not bad weapons (stark and timik). And healing station is not a counter because it’s situational. This game is not on rock-paper-scissors. You must be able to counter every merc with every merc.
At the current state of thunder, he has no effective counter apart hoping on luck or bad thunder aim.

(Verticules) #35

Anyone else understand that cooking would make him stronger in a good player’s hands?