Thunder Still Feels Like He's Falling Behind

(HadronZodiac) #1

I will admit i havent played thunder as much as any other merc, but still he just feels like hes falling behind

One of the main problems with his ability is how short the effect is, especially since if you arent behind cover, you get blinded yourself, this increases time needed to actually see your target again, and by then theres only ~.75 seconds left of the concuss

Fragger still feels way more effecient than thunder, even after his constant nerfs
Tbh nerfing fragger wont make thunder ANY more viable

Thunder can still do some damage, but it requires a level of team skill and communication that basically isnt even possible in any pub (maybe not even in ranked in some situations)

Here are some simple changes id enjoy to see thunder go through (they arent insane, so dont flip tables just yet):

Concussion Grenade:

A - An increase in concuss lifetime (a max of 5 seconds), however the concuss effect reduces as it effects someone. AKA the concuss effect goes from 100% to 20% from 0-4.9 seconds, then that last .1 second just quickly drops the last 20% : This is mostly because its a support assault ability, but it feels like it does nothing in the long run, it typically takes more than 2 seconds to kill someone anyways

B - Concussion grenade has a reduced effect (and or lifetime) on the thunder throwing it (~-40%), you could give him “goggles” that stop stuff like that idk

C - Just increase blast radius by about 5%, as you really arent being to helpful slowing down a max of 2 people for ~3 seconds after 16 seconds, and already the chance of getting a concussion assist is lowww

MK46:

A - Decrease spread increase rate by ~10%, as its super annoying when moving the slighest bit makes the spread increase rapidly, or even just croutching and immobile you cant do much the second someone moves by like 2 feet : And it increases the time before you need to ADS, and with the one tiny ring on the mk46, ADS is last resort…

B - Increase RPM by 20: So many situations where you DO concuss ~4 people at once, but as a front line merc, you cant do sh!t after that. All you do is pepper spray the group until they shoot you down (its not hard to shoot someone while concussed btw).

A lot of times, when you conussed an 120 hp merc, it takes the same amount of time to kill them to kill you…

which is just dumb

(Press E) #2

I actually feel that he’s fine more or less as it is tbh. Any more buffs to his concussion grenade means he ends up being an extremely annoying merc to fight against, so I think I’d leave it as is.
I wouldn’t mind nerfing it’s effect on thunder himself though. Having to look away from someone attacking you isn’t really that great.

All and all considering the other assault mercs, he’s pretty on par with them. His ability might not be the best thing ever, but you have to consider other things like his weapons and health. The most I’d do is potentially bump his HP back up to 170 as it was before, but really 160 is still plenty. His LMG is really good, especially compared to Fragger’s which is just eww, and the timik isn’t half bad either. The only thing that’s bad on him is the stark after it got nerfed to hell, so I think replacing that with the Scar would be better. The stark doesn’t really fit him well anyways, it’s so small in his hands lol.

(Szakalot) #3

Thunder has a unique ability to win a 1v1 against any other player. with practice the concussion is undodgeable, and even if you dodge the flash you can’t move and thus you die.
Try using a loadout with Timik, if you want to push people faster

(henki000) #4

I think he is fractionally too powerful compared to overall balance. He has amazing range and fear factor, because of concussion and high HP. Thunder is like visible phantom, unavoidable death bringer in 1v1, but cant really escape if you spent your ability. Slowly moving large object that breaks defensive lines. I agree that Fragger is better in usual situations, but you can pick key targets more controlled. If you are against team that has one great assault player, but common players backing him/her. I would totally prefer Thunder more than Fragger and hunt that great player. Even if I have better experience with fragger. Plus he is buffed in FF off servers, where you cant concuss your team. Thats what make him frustrating and difficult to balance in my opinion.

(LifeupOmega) #5

Concussion is a garbage mechanic as is, doesn’t need a buff at all. I’d rather he have flash/emp back and cooking to boot but then he’d most likely be dog shit again - although visual advantage and 160hp is already substantial.

(HadronZodiac) #6

win 1v1 against any player? I just said thats very clear that doesnt happen half the time

MK46 too inaccurate to shoot from mid range
Also yes ive used timik, a little better

Ye slowing someone down for 2 seconds is horrifying

Tbh i liked the emp, it made up for the fact that it did no damage

#7

Concussion is short because cooldown duration on said ability is short. I’d like the EMP functuon as well, but overall I don’t think he’s in a bad spot. I still run with his first gen T91 all the time. The LMGs in this game definitely need some work though, but that’s not a problem exclusive to Thunder.

This is a great idea I’d never considered. Would be an awesome passive mechanic that all Thunder’s could have. Granted, maybe I’m just sayin’ this because I’m an extremely low sensitivity player and I don’t enjoy throwing my elbow out of socket every time I wanna do some fancy concussion spin. It’s a crucial aspect of his playstyle. Would be really interesting if certain Mercs or augments could reduce the effects from his stuff as well. Stoker’s mask as resistance, maybe?

(henki000) #8

@HadronZodiac

Virtually disabling their aim and give you advantage. Spamming nades with short cooldown. 2 seconds is long time, if you land only headshots. It’s enough time to turn the tide, where every moment of existence counts. If you encounter good Thunder, you never know which direction assault comes.

(HadronZodiac) #9

I agree with short cooldown short effect, but theres no point in a short blind effect. Oh no i cant see for 2 seconds ahhhh…

Id be completely fine with the cooldown being 18 and increasing the effect lifetime because honestly the concussion grenade just feels like a water balloon, but it explodes air not water

Also for the lmgs,

yeah i can agree, however i feel like mk46 is by far the biggest problem, as the k121 (if controlled) can be great, but with the mk46, its just an oversized pepper spray

#10

True that, I love the K-121. I hate its reload time and magazine capacity, though. This was somethin’ I said about it a long time ago: “Give it a larger magazine. I know it’s been discussed before and a lot of people have been requesting various buffs regarding the spread and viewpunch while aiming down sights, but personally I think a larger magazine would be enough of a change to call it good for a while. I do well with the gun and it’s fun to use. The Heckler and Koch it’s modeled after is compatible with drum magazines. That and, ya know, if you want it to stay belt-fed just increase the freakin’ rounds. I think anything around 100 would be ideal. It needs more rounds per magazine because that’s the nature of the weapon and the reload is too long for an underwhelming 55. Having more than one spare magazine would be nice as well.”

Thunder was so much freakin’ fun in Execution… :cry:

(Your worst knifemare.) #11

Imo opinion Thunder doesn’t need any buffs…

Or nerfs

(HadronZodiac) #12

I think 75 or even 65 would be fine, when taking in consideration the jeebus amount of damage is stored in the gun anyways

(after doing some math, the k121 has the same damage stored as the mk46, even though the k121 is greatly more unstable…)

Honestly id like to see how it does with 2.75 reload speed first, and a slight reduction in the random spread

honestly :sob:

(Press E) #13

Pro-tip @anon41468043, you just have to look at the ground, you don’t have to do a full 180. Can still be a pain, but at least it’s not as bad lol

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #14

2 seconds can be plenty of time for someone to light you up with a string of headshots.
I have a deep seeded hatred for the concussion grenade, getting randomly blinded across the map is infuriating, so I don’t honestly think he needs any buffs. I’m all for buffing the MK46, because I friggin love that thing, but I’m fine with Thunder being a niche pick who absolutely destroys with good communication.

(Szakalot) #15

Thunder wins 1v1s half the time? Well, if you said it, it must be true.

Somehow i remain unconvinced. The fact that you mention self-blinding as an issue would tell me you don’t really know how to use concussion.

(HadronZodiac) #16

In the typical situation, someone uses the grenade as a grenade (aka uses its bounce to get behind cover)

This also prevents you from getting blinded yourself

But oh wait, now i need to passthe wall to even see my target

oh wait the effect is gone now, fun

Yes looking away is a very bad way to use it .-.

it still blinds you if you look away btw, test it :slight_smile:

(Jigstraw) #17

if anything thunder’s a bit on the strong side in addition to being very frustrating to deal with because the concussion is annoying by design and tilts players into performing poorly more than anything else.

honestly, having 160hp should be enough for him to be able to win 1v1s against anyone but rhino, but on top of that he has the concussion grenade adding to his strength in that situation, where you simply throw it at the one guy you want to kill and laugh as they can’t move while you spray them down with a massive bullet hose

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #18

Yeah, those people are playing him incorrectly. Like you said, doing that makes the effect let up before you have time to take advantage of it. So that’s not really a problem with Thunder himself, but instead the way people try to play him.
A good Thunder will throw a concussion grenade at someone, duck behind cover for a split second to avoid the flash, and then delete their forehead with a string of headshot. Trying to take on someone who is already behind cover with the concussion grenade is just ineffective. Honestly, Thunder’s kit actually synergizes with itself pretty well, with the MK46 just flinging bullets at people who can’t even see well enough to fight back. The trick to gitting gud with Thunder is positioning yourself to spend as much time shooting a blinded enemy, and as little time doing… not that.

#19

To be fair, an even better way to become MLG sUpErPrO with Thunder is to, I don’t know, get halfway respectable gun skill. Even without his grenade, he’s a force. 160 health with an AUG and AK. He already has the upper hand in most gun fights to begin with and the range to cover any.

Side note, y’all should really consider ignoring his second gen loadouts altogether. Apologies if I butcher some of these from memory. T45, MA42, and S41 are the same in both. First gen T91 is superior. First gen S75 is far better. First gen S92 offers Chopper or Quick Draw (don’t remember) instead of Looter which gets a definite edge if you ask me.

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #20

True, (though I prefer the LMG just because it’s stupid fun) but at that point I’d rather just play Kira or Stoker. His health pool is great, but he still has a tHiCC hitbox, and having the utility of a molotov or the unbridled power of the Orbital laser, plus the speed advantage they both have over Thunder, would probably be better for a team overall. But you’re right, having good aim makes anyone’s job easier, but especially Thunder’s. Relying on the concussion grenade is a death sentence.