Three simple changes...

(Phukka) #1

Thunder - Ability needs a longer cool down. Thunder is the first & only merc banned instantly in pugs / scrims for a reason - And in those you can only have 1 thunder. In pub games it’s a joke. 2-3 Thunders can pretty much shutdown the entire map. If you turn away from his ability, both the conc / flash should not effect you. Maybe need to lower health?

Proxy - Unable to self-explode your mines until they become activated. Would stop this semi-suicidal proxies & those who run about with mines out as primaries.

And finally. The spam-jump-shoot breed needs pinning down. A decent player will jump 1 or even 2 times in a fight. Off a wall, initial engagement, whatever. These who jump 5 times before they even shoot, or jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot. RETARDED. Make the accuracy after the first jump low or introduce stamina, so you simply can’t jump more than 3 times in quick succession?

(frostyvampire) #2

Thunder’s health is fine and cooldown is also fine.
But I do agree on lowering concussion and flash effect when looking away from the grenade but in exchange bring back EMP. But the concussion should still affect you, just not fully (maybe looking at the conc grenade would give you a 100% concussion and 100% flash but looking away would give you only 20% concussion and 5% flash)

Proxy: That would suck and make no sense if you couldn’t shoot unarmed mines. Don’t forget that it also forces you (the player that plays against Proxy) to wait for the mine to arm before you can go. But either decreasing the damage to 50% or decreasing the explosion radius to 50% before the mine is armed would be a nice change.

About stopping jump spam yes please. I hate bunny shotgun Proxys’

(Phukka) #3

You are the only person who has said Thunders ability doesn’t need a long cool down. EVERYONE who plays pugs, in a team and scrims says Thunder is OP and beyond ridiculous. Yeah, no doubt 10 people will now jump in & say Thunder is fine, bla bla bla, but honestly, forum warriors & bad players? They’re clueless.

Well, you kinda summed up the issue. You can currently shoot unarmed mines. Unarmed should mean unarmed, as in, unable to be detonated by any means. Way to many now run mine out, throw it, shoot 5-10 bullets (or shotty) to explode it, bigga-boom, kid kills 3-4 players quicker than 3-4 players can react & kill the bunny-proxy shooting a stationary mine on the floor. That ain’t skill, it’s a broken mechanic. Mines should be mines. Instead, Proxy is almost Fletcher.

(wrt) #4

Agreed. Concussion grenade needs 10 to 15 second longer cooldown period.

Dont fully agree on the mine problem. It’s annoying for sure, if there’s more than one Proxy on the team. But with a change like that you would be making Proxy even more useless, which she already is, compared to the other two engies. For me shooting your own mines to inflict devastating damage to grouped enemies is one if not the only fun aspect of playing Proxy.

Sadly, I doubt there’s much that can be done about those panic jumpers. Seems to be a survival method for players lacking aim.

(hoyes) #5

Yeah the ability just needs a longer cooldown, 17-18 secs, the same as fraggers nade. To be brutally honest though fragger will always be better, and the reason people ban Thunder is because it is annoying to constantly get stunned, but you havd to take into consideration that being stunned doesn’t always mean death, as Thunder without emp means he cannot push very effectively, basically meaning the conc is just an annoyance. People just don’t want to deal with him even though fragger is much better in most situations.

Proxy’s being able to shoot the mines I agree it needs to go perhaps like @FrostyVampire said, reduce explosive damage when shot to 50% , but then buff it to make it less noticeable, very difficult to tell where it is, thus making the mines more effective as mines and encouraging people to mine check more.

And I want bunny hopping shotguns nerfed to the ground.

(Armuh) #6

@Jokder

Thats not the reason people ban Thunder, the fact of the matter is that he is capable of flashing a complete team of 5 players within a large area, in a competitive environment being flashed does mean death most of the time. When abilities are popped, most teams push, so of coure they’ll easily kill that silly merc covering his eyes while running at a wall.

Now when an ability that can disable a whole team of skilled players within a few seconds is in the game, it will be obviously be banned to due the sheer imbalance it brings.

(watsyurdeal) #7

I am still trying to understand the logic that a guy who can blind and immobilize you, needs 2nd to the most health in the game.

If he can basically rob you of one sense, as well as your ability to run, he doesn’t need THAT much health, and I would even argue losing health for speed would actually allow him to take better or full effect of his concussions.

(yesser) #8
  • i perssonaly think that the flash shouldnt be with thunder . been slowed cause of the conc grenade is a real pain since you cant sprint and also cant jump so you are pretty much dead in that situation only if the thunder have a really bad aim or you insta healed (from pheonix or a station mostely) i guess the flash should in another merc
  • i preffer the idea of having a smaller explosion radius when not armed cause in reality its possible to make somthing explode if not armed
  • i think the way to fix it is having a bigger recoil with each consecutive jump that will reset after a period of time depending on how many jump jumped in simple the more you jump the worse the acuarrcy the longer time it will take for it to ruturn to normal
(Orivar) #9

lets just remove proxy from the game. Only tryhards play her no??

(EverythingElse) #10

-Make it a fade black not a blindinf fade white

-Or maybe you can still shoot the mine before its activated but it only does like 50 or 60 damage

-Bunny hoppers give me cancer and need a good slap in the face to remind them this isnt CSGO

(watsyurdeal) #11

Bunny hopping doesn’t work well in CS GO either, but yea, bunny hopping is somewhat of a problem, for me the problem is more that people aren’t punished harshly for consecutive jumps.

I don’t mind them jumping once in combat to make themselves harder to hit, but when it’s basically constant it gets old quick.

Thankfully they do the same thing over and over and I adapt to it fast, but still.

I feel like a good solution is forcing the spread to it’s max when you jump, and it goes back to it’s initial value at the peak of the jump, and or bringing back that long jump mechanic, where after a jump you’d slow down for a bit. I think doing that for a consecutive jump without any wall jump added on would actually help a bit.

But idk, I think another problem is the map designs, a lot of close quarters in closed areas, and not a lot of room to really use the jumps. It’s sad the best map that displays ALL of the parkour mechanics Dirty Bomb has is not favored much. I fucking love Dome.

(Phukka) #12

Thunder just needs longer cool-down so it’s not spam-able, reduce radius & potentially have it just as a flashbang. Personally feel concussion is just way to OP. I mean, hit by concussion, even if you ain’t blind, trying to fire back is more luck than judgement when you win, or the opponent is permanently concussed & blinded in real life.

As for Proxy, yeah, I like the idea that if a mine is detonated pre-armed, it’ll do half damage. That I think is a good balance.

Jumpers. Ban anyone who presses spacebar more than 5 times in 10 seconds to much? Honestly, I don’t see why accuracy can’t be significantly reduced during a jump. It’ll stop it pretty quickly.

(LifeupOmega) #13

No cooking needed makes it frustrating, even knowing when he’ll throw it chances are you’ll be flashed or stunned anyway because of how finicky the damn thing is. Compared to Fragger who needs to cook (which anyone with a brain will take the time to run from), and who’s ability doesn’t even pierce any more (so a player can eat it and save their medic with no downside as they’ll be revived anyway).

Would be nice to tone down the flash or stun effect by a few seconds, or have a harsher fall-off from the center of impact.

Yes. It’s pretty garbage that this is encouraged with shotguns especially. But it’d help if there were more players who’d stomp this type into the ground, it’s just a symptom of shitty pub players who can’t track someone moving up and down. Anyone with a brain will shut down players who do this.

No.

(Xenithos) #14

[quote=“Phukka;32010”]Thunder - Ability needs a longer cool down. Thunder is the first & only merc banned instantly in pugs / scrims for a reason - And in those you can only have 1 thunder. In pub games it’s a joke. 2-3 Thunders can pretty much shutdown the entire map. If you turn away from his ability, both the conc / flash should not effect you. Maybe need to lower health?

Proxy - Unable to self-explode your mines until they become activated. Would stop this semi-suicidal proxies & those who run about with mines out as primaries.

And finally. The spam-jump-shoot breed needs pinning down. A decent player will jump 1 or even 2 times in a fight. Off a wall, initial engagement, whatever. These who jump 5 times before they even shoot, or jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot. RETARDED. Make the accuracy after the first jump low or introduce stamina, so you simply can’t jump more than 3 times in quick succession?
[/quote]

Honestly, I agree that Thunder is currently ridiculous, however, Proxy was made, even in her merc-role call video to be able to do that. It’s a viable tactic, and if your team is stupid enough to keep bunching up, etc, then proxies will be able to help shut that down.

On chapel on attack, if your team doesn’t have a fragger or a semi decent nader/stoker, then proxies will get the job done when that jerk Aura puts her heal stations down in the hallway. This is an example.

As per bunny hopping, eventually they will learn, and trying to limit bunnyhoppers in combat would in my understanding ruin the wall hopping speed the game has. I prefer movement in the game to stay as close to it is now, if that means Bunnyhopping stays, I don’t mind.

(hawkeyeguy99) #15

If there is to be any change I think it only needs to be to flash effect. If you’re not looking at the grenade, the flash shouldn’t effect you very much. Everything else about Thunder is fine. He’s not OP when other characters can get insta kills with their similar abilites. He doesn’t need nerfed at all.

(Jostabeere) #16

Yeah. everyone plays Proxy because she is useless and weak. That must be the reason she won the ReV event. And that must be the reason she is the most played Engie.

(Amerika) #17

[quote=“Phukka;32010”]Thunder - Ability needs a longer cool down. Thunder is the first & only merc banned instantly in pugs / scrims for a reason - And in those you can only have 1 thunder. In pub games it’s a joke. 2-3 Thunders can pretty much shutdown the entire map. If you turn away from his ability, both the conc / flash should not effect you. Maybe need to lower health?

Proxy - Unable to self-explode your mines until they become activated. Would stop this semi-suicidal proxies & those who run about with mines out as primaries.

And finally. The spam-jump-shoot breed needs pinning down. A decent player will jump 1 or even 2 times in a fight. Off a wall, initial engagement, whatever. These who jump 5 times before they even shoot, or jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot, jump-shoot. RETARDED. Make the accuracy after the first jump low or introduce stamina, so you simply can’t jump more than 3 times in quick succession?
[/quote]

Thunders flashbangs definitely need toned down. Doubling down on one of the most hated things in all of FPS gaming was not a good way to buff him.

Proxies who throw mines are easy kills 10/10 times. Hell, I just played in a server full of them and I barely saw them use their guns. Good proxies will place their mines in good spots (borderline exploit spots due to current mine mechanics) and will use their guns and speed to win games. Bad proxies run at people and try to throw a mine out for reasons I’ll never understand outside of doing it for the giggles.

There is already a mechanic in the game where if you jump more than twice you get slowed down heavily. And people who jump up in the air constantly have a huge amount of spread that will require them to get lucky to win a fight against a grounded opponent who knows how to track. Shotguns don’t add enough spread on jumping though which is why you constantly see jumping shotgun users. They get spread but if they are in your face it doesn’t matter. Basically, if you’re losing to somebody jumping off of everything in the area and they aren’t trying to run and are trying to shoot you then you might want to work on tracking people up in the air. I know CS and similar games don’t teach tracking vertically very much but there is some of it in DB and it’s part of the game and what makes it a different experience than every other shooter out there.

(Phukka) #18

A lot of you seem to very much miss the point & problem. Dirty Bomb has I’m afraid, the lowest skilled player base, maybe ever. So a lot of those players revert to mind boggling bad, tactics? Or just bad skill? I dunno…

Granted, everyone seems to agree Thunder is to strong, but this is more about the mentality of the player base.

You’ve Thunders who are awful, but can spam an ability that is extremely powerful that can immobilise 3-4 opponent easily. One Thunder is frustrating, but when you get in a pub and they have 2 or 3, the match is pathetic.

Now on to Proxy, and it seems pretty obvious none of you realise the issue with the self-detonation of the mine. I use to play proxy a lot, I use to only place mines in an area, but if I was challenged by 2-3 or more & could throw a mine, detonate it before they killed me, that’s some what skill.

What we have now in abundance is proxies running around with mines out as if they are some Frisbee Fletcher. That’s not skill when it’s over & over. Nor is it skill when there are 2-3 or more Proxies doing this, of course it’ll work handful of times, but it’s not how proxy should be played, it’s retarded low skilled muppets who also spam-jump too. And they do ruin the game. Not just for the opponents, but their own team. Proxy should be laying mines, shooting with guns & being an Engineer first, planting, defusing, repairing etc. Not yolo-frisbee-fletcher all the damm time.

Only yesterday did I play against Gary GD again, oh what fun. Lvl 52, proxy shotgun. My god, he likes his spacebar. He is terrible, I mean, bottom score, lowest frags. Anyhow, still so frustrating. It’s not that 1v1 he wins often or ever, but it’s when it’s 2 or 3 of them with him bunny hopping does it become ridiculous. Even more so when new players see a Lvl 52 do this and they copy.

(yesser) #19

[quote=“Phukka;200766”]
Only yesterday did I play against Gary GD again, oh what fun. Lvl 52, proxy shotgun. My god, he likes his spacebar. He is terrible, I mean, bottom score, lowest frags. Anyhow, still so frustrating. It’s not that 1v1 he wins often or ever, but it’s when it’s 2 or 3 of them with him bunny hopping does it become ridiculous. Even more so when new players see a Lvl 52 do this and they copy.[/quote]

maybe it wasnt him ? i somtime let my brother play . he like nader but rarely use the abilty.
maybe that the person you montionned let someone play and that someone asked him for an easy ‘‘fun’’ merc and that would explain why he is bottom score
but i agree that kamikaze proxies need to stop

(Lord.Eblis) #20

When I compare Thunder’s grenade cool down, to Fragger’s one, to Stoker’s one, yeah there’s a problem. Sometimes I spend a big part of the game with the white screen :slight_smile:
I find Stoker’s cool down too long but it’s almost fair enough giving the damage it can deal, but it’s way behind Fragger’s nade damage.

I agree with bunny jump. I hate it, but maybe I hate it because I can’t do it myself and I can’t deal with those bunnies.

About kamikaze Proxy, I do not see a lot of them. When I try to throw a mine on a bunch of enemies, it’s only when they trapped me. It happened but I rarely succeed and my goal is not to suicide but to get revenge. I manage only one time to kill 6 with one mine.