"This game is pay-to-win" Thoughts on new player impressions and retention.


(subtleChain) #1

I was with a few friends as they were playing their first games of the beta and it seems that right now the game doesn’t convey the right messages when it comes to monetization. Dirty bomb was quickly discarded by some of my friends as “Pay-to-win bullshit” and if it weren’t for their friends, they’d be likely never to touch it again. First impression is key to F2P titles and right now, Dirty bomb doesn’t seem to make a good one. The issue lies more with the impression than with the business model, and I believe it can be worked out fairly quickly using a few tricks. (“Get to level 7 to play with your friends” gives a terrible first impression too btw, this needs to go ASAP)

Level ups and credits earning curve:
What you want to do is making credits earning very fast at the beginning and slow it down drastically as the player gains more and more experience, using some kind of logarithmic curve. Allowing players to unlock lots of shiny stuff is a great way to get them hooked to the game, as opposed to making them bump into a grinding wall straight off the bat. The game already kind of does that as you get something like 25k out of the blue in the beginning but it’s terrible at explaining it and it’s not good at all because you don’t feel like you earned it.

Right now, the very first monetization impressiion comes at the end of your first game, let’s get into the head of a new player: You just played a 15min game and barely won, you don’t have a positive K/D yet but it’s ok because you felt useful dropping ammo packs to people so you feel good about yourself and this first win. You check the endgame menus “sweet, 100 credits, what can I buy with that”. Then you go back to the menu ans see that the least expensive mercs are 30000 credits… On top of that, random cases are 1000. “This is P2W, I’m leaving”.

Now let’s see how to fix that. First of all you need to make it so the first game automatically gets you to level 2, then you get a special “level up reward” screen and you give lots of shiny stuff to the newbie: “Sweet I got to level 2: 10000 credits and 5 cases, wow that’s very nice, let’s open them.” Then the newbie opens his free cases which is fun and feels good, then he checks the mercs screen “30k? Sweet, I’ve already done a third of it! Let’s play an other game!”.

That’s what you want to do, give a lot of stuff to the new players as level rewards, and make the grind only starts to appear as the XP amount you need to level up gets bigger and bigger. For the sake of the argument, we’ll assume games last 10min on average and that the game has 15-20 mercs available, which means there’s room for giving some away.

-Level 2: 10 minutes in, end of first game, you get to , you earn 10k XP and 5 cases.
-Level 3: 30 minutes in, end of your third game, you earn 10k more XP and 3 cases. “I’ve only played three games and I’m almost done unlocking my first merc already!”.
-Level 3: 50 minutes in: : 10k XP and 2 cases “Yay, I only started playing this game today and I’m unlocking stuff already, that’s awesome”
Then you make the cases disappear from level ups because people start to realize they are randomly getting some at the end of games.

I won’t go too much into details but you really need to give away free mercs in the first few hours of play, unlocking stuff gets people hooked and helps new players distinguish themselves from one another. Letting people choose is a better idea than a lolesque free mercs rotation. Chances are they’ll make terribly uneducated choices anyway and will feel disatisfied with what they unlocked, which is good.

The first three mercs need to be unlocked fairly quickly, I’d say within the first week of casually playing the game. Then you get a steeper curve towards the fourth one, but you get to unlock ranked matchmaking at the same time. From now on the logarithmic curve starts to flatten out and levels stop being relevant: grinding game XP and the daily missions becomes the only viable way to get in-game currency. I’m saying “grinding” but it really shouldn’t be as steep as it is right now though: if the grind wall appears almost unclimbable, you’re not encouraging players to pay, you’re pushing them away from the game. If you spend more than a couple of days grinding to unlock a single merc, there’s probably something wrong with the monetization, especially since you’re choosing between merc money and case money.

This leads me to what I think the most important part of the merc monetization is: You don’t want to make people buy mercs because the grind is too long, you want to make it so they have better stuff to do with their ingame currency than buying mercs. Even if getting new mercs for free is fairly quick, it should be pretty clear that all this currency could be better used buying cases and cards.
My suggestion is to add the ability for people to buy the specific loadout card they want for a tremendous amount of in-game money. Now here’s the trick, you do not allow cards to be bought with real dollars, this leads people to believe: “Look, the game is not pay-to-win: you can only buy cards with in-game currency”. But in fact, you are given a choice: you either spend your currency on unlocking mercs or you are spending your in-game currency on getting new stuff for the mercs you already have. This is a true convenience choice but it’s not unfair at the same time, you’re not paying because you don’t have the time to unlock mercs, you pay because you’d rather spend that time on something else, something more fun.

Making the daily missions grind interesting and learning experiences:
The Currency grind needs to be enjoyable and “earning 14k support XP” or “Put Proxy in your squad but no need to use her” is a freaking terrible way to do it, make the mission more concrete and make it so they encourage teamplay, supporting and intelligent play. There should be both easy and hard ones. Some of them could be as easy as “rezzing 15 people in a single game”, or “Provide your teammates with 6 ammo packs in a single life”. But you should also introduce stuff that encourages people to play their class well: “Heal more than 1000HP with a single healing station”, which encourages good station placement, “Give ammo packs to people who truly need it” which encourages being more aware to your team’s needs. There could also be “Kill both an aura and her station with a single grenade” or “Wipe the objective from several enemies with a single airstrike”, “Kill someone who is about to defuse a bomb with a proximity mine” which encourages using the killing classes well.

Cosmetics:
It is a shame that you aren’t using cosmetics because it’s the best source of revenue: The Dota2 and CSGO markets are great examples but I’m also thinking about games like Loadout. I don’t usually put any money into cosmetics but the Loadout cosmetics were so cool and so well integrated into the game that I just couldn’t resist and that I paid a lot. It also allows players who have the money to support the game without feeling the “I’m paying to win” shame (that’s my case). Also, if you have a great cosmetic system that earns you money, it means you can afford increasing even more the in-game currency flow, which gives your game a better reputation, increases your playerbase etc.
On top of that, cosmetics is the only long-term revenue because, unless your game is blatanlty p2w (clash of clan etc.) that’s the only thing people will keep paying for in the long run. Once your core player has played the game a lot and they have unlocked all the stuff want, the only things they’ll pay for is cosmetics. Indeed I don’t think you’ll be able to create a steady flow of new mercs like LOL does because DB is an FPS game and your options are limited, and the content you can add will start feeling redundant fairly soon.


(subtleChain) #2

Mercs Price:

Fragger currently costing more than the others is a very big issue too because it promotes a bad mentality, because it conveys the idea that some mercs are better than the others. If you want to charge more for certain mercs than others there are more clever ways to do it but I’ll come to that later.
Right now, a new player who dies to a fragger might think: “I didn’t lose because he is better than me, I lost because his merc is more expensive, on top of that he has a freaking silver loadout, this is bullshit.” This is only one step away from a “the game is p2w” mentality, as Dirty Bomb i an FPS game and you can’t convey that kind of message to people. When people no longer have the correct mindset of blaming their own skill when they die, your game is basically doomed in the long term.

Instead of conveying the message of “some mercs are more powerful than others”, you need to state that all mercs are equal and that your game is perfectly balanced. If you really want to charge different amounts for different mercs there are more clever ways to do it: Instead of charging more for powerful mercs, you should be charging less for support mercs and say “we are making these mercs less expensive in order to promote teamplay”, now instead of finding the discrepancy shady, players might actually think they are pretty cool.

We’ll keep the 30k prices and 50k for the example’s sake (I’m not saying they should be the correct prices): Now, you could make 50k the default amount, but create a 40% medic reduction and a 40% ammo guy reduction at the same time. This allows you to charge for frag-oriented mercs like Fragger and Vassili without conveying a “this game is purposefully imbalanced because we want money” vibe.

Increasing the “skill” part of the currency reward:
It should be pretty obvious that you should be encouraging people to improve, this means increasing the skill bonus to earning rates is probably a good idea as the game would feel more rewarding for doing good. This is pretty straight-forward and I don’t really see the point arguing it further.


(Amerika) #3

I do like the idea of changing the missions. Like, get 5 plants or defuses with proxy. Get 5 frag nade kills with Fragger. 14k for support XP just sucks and I even like playing a medic.

I also agree that perception, especially early on, is very important to a F2P titles early success. And right now the perception of the game among people who don’t play is muddled at best and pretty awful at times. I went into a couple of streams and talked about the game and a lot of people had the perception that DB was a terrible game and looked like it was pay2win due to the loadout cards. It might not be true but that’s not how people see it. Especially when the CoD crowd tries it and they see that “loadouts” are not easily customizable and tied to money.


(subtleChain) #4

You’re right there might be something to change about the loadout cards too as it may also carry the wrong impression.

Edit: Thinking about it, it needs to be stated very clearly that cards can never be acquired through spending real money, else the game would never recover from the p2w feeling it would give.


(dignifiedIncrease) #5

Look at the tf2 model for the cosmetic bit but not for the balancing in regards to weapons. I think csgo and any moba is good to look at for match making and xp points. You could even throw in xp boosts/currency boost not only to buy in the store but you could also give them to players as a way of saying I’m sorry for any down time experienced during maintenences or server issues.


(subtleChain) #6

I’m actually very opposed to purchasable XP boosts, as nothing gives a more P2W vibe than that. Planetside 2 and Loadout are great examples of doing it wrong and failing.


(Amerika) #7

Honestly, I just wish they would copy how CSGO does it. I consider that system pretty much perfect. The only downside is I don’t believe a 3rd party can put up their own community market. Or am I wrong there? I’ve only ever noticed them for TF2, Dota2 and CSGO.


(Szakalot) #8

there is a significant risk with some missions that people will stop playing for the team, and will for their silly missions.


(appreciativeBuster) #9

I’ll bet you and your friends ten bucks that I can beat your obsidian/gold loadout with default mercs.
P2W my ass
Seems they didn’t enjoy the gameplay, good riddance :)… So funny they fall for these kind of systems.
Please show me a true F2P game?
The last i’ve played was Runescape in 2003 which was a stand-alone game purely due to PvP.

Good thread though just tired of this blind mentality.


(Szakalot) #10

[quote=“appreciativeBuster;10381”]I’ll bet you and your friends ten bucks that I can beat your obsidian/gold loadout with default mercs.

P2W my ass[/quote]

you are missing the point. He isn’t saying game is P2W. He is saying the game gives that impression


(subtleChain) #11

Not if you design the missions well. If the mission is about following your teamplay oriented roles even as a fragging class it should be alright.


(immenseWalnut) #12

The way I see it, there are two F2P models out there. The one Valve uses, and the one everyone else uses.

Valve’s system doesn’t hide content away behind a pay wall. All classes are available from day 1, and they try to concentrate on building a large player base and giving the game longevity, with small, real micro transactions (none of this secondary currency BS). The whole point of micro transactions is to make them so cheap it is easy to buy them, and as a result you buy more and more and have no idea how much you have actually spent (I did this when I bought an Amazon Kindle, I bought so many books in the first couple of weeks I spent more than I did on the Kindle itself).

On the other hand, you have the crappy cash grab model that most companies are using, which locks content away (which might actually make the game more enjoyable if it was freely available), has a long winded grind associated to unlock it all freely, and forces the player to buy secondary currency (which often costs well over £100 to unlock everything). Many of the games I have spent money on that uses that model was quickly abandoned by the player base, and shortly after by the devs. Some examples are Tribes Ascend, Loadout and HAWKEN.

Sadly, I think DB will be a dead game that gets abandoned by the devs a few months after release, so I really see no point in spending money on the game, especially when you consider the cost of the mercs is stupidly overpriced given the lack of diversity, and the RNG nature of the loadout cards. If DB was a buy to play game, with no content locked away, chances are I wouldn’t be willing to spend more than £25 on it, so there is no way I am paying 3-4 times that when the game isn’t worth it.


(DomMafia) #13

I agree with a lot of the first post regarding keeping new players interested.


(appreciativeBuster) #14

UE4 Engine and Firefall are my favourite F2P models at the moment.

Fair points. It’d be utter shame if it died but the future shall tell! It does seem that way nowadays, make something awesome with great mechanics. Milk it, abandon it.


(humaneBerry) #15

I understand that some people will see this game as p2w in its current state.
I also agree with your method of “hooking” a new player to the game but i’m not sure about your idea of buying specific loadouts and not making em purchasable for real money.

I like a unified credit system where you can buy credits to get whatever you want. Be it a new merc, 10 loadout cases or whatever.

I also agree with the cosmetic bits you mentioned. Right now the cosmetics are integrated with the loadouts. I’m not sure how many different skins there currently are or if they intend to add specific “skin cards” wich i hope they will.

As for the prices of mercs. Im not sure what games like LoL or SMITE charge for new heroes but if we do the math for this game:

All missions (apart from the xp one wich seems to be a bit iffy) are doable within 2hrs. If i play the game for 2 hours a day i get a reliable 1800 credits. This is under the assumption that the xp mission is fixed and actually requires 14000 xp. For sake of the math we round it off to 2000 with cashrewards from playing.

It would take you 25 days playing 2hrs a day to unlock Fragger. I’m not sure if i think that is alot considering the game was free and Fragger to me doesnt seem that OP.

If we take into account the value of the cases you recieve. Let’s say you get one per day of 2hr playing (I think it’s more than this) you will have recieved a total value of 75000 credits playing only 2hrs a day for 25 days.


(strawberryJacket) #16

Ironic thing about perceptive pay2win is the fact that fragger is the best merc in the game at the moment and he cost the most, its hard not to think that it is in fact pay2win game 8D.

They already said that we dont get enough credits so we should see some changes to it “soon” (then again fragger and aura are both broken for months, i wouldnt keep my breath for quick fixes :slight_smile: )


(Amerika) #17

[quote=“appreciativeBuster;10381”]I’ll bet you and your friends ten bucks that I can beat your obsidian/gold loadout with default mercs.
P2W my ass
Seems they didn’t enjoy the gameplay, good riddance :)… So funny they fall for these kind of systems.
Please show me a true F2P game?
The last i’ve played was Runescape in 2003 which was a stand-alone game purely due to PvP.

Good thread though just tired of this blind mentality.
[/quote]

You’re right that the loadout cards don’t make a monster difference. They are a difference but not huge. The issue here is with perception. Even tying something like that to money will keep people from even trying the game. I know a guy who streams TF2 and I told him about the game and I talked to him and his chat the other day and all of them repeated the same incorrect thing about it being pay2win and why it was pay2win. Which, on the surface, sounded correct but in reality it’s not. So perception matters here. If you tie anything at all that could improve your character to money you will be pay2win in many people’s eyes regardless of how it’s handled.


(subtleChain) #18

[quote=“humaneBerry;10407”]
All missions (apart from the xp one wich seems to be a bit iffy) are doable within 2hrs. If i play the game for 2 hours a day i get a reliable 1800 credits. This is under the assumption that the xp mission is fixed and actually requires 14000 xp. For sake of the math we round it off to 2000 with cashrewards from playing.

It would take you 25 days playing 2hrs a day to unlock Fragger. I’m not sure if i think that is alot considering the game was free and Fragger to me doesnt seem that OP.

If we take into account the value of the cases you recieve. Let’s say you get one per day of 2hr playing (I think it’s more than this) you will have recieved a total value of 75000 credits playing only 2hrs a day for 25 days. [/quote]

Playing two hours a day for 25 days seems fair in order to play as fragger? That sounds completely outrageous to me. Only the most hardcore of gamers have this kind of time anyway, and even I could play video games for two hours a day, I sure as he.ll wouldn’t spend them playing DB exclusively.

A case every hour or two isn’t satisfactory at all, especially since bronze+ cards or so rare. If you are going to implement a stupid progression system, at least make it so you get some kind satisfactory thing every play session, else people won’t come back.


(ivoryQuestion) #19

The model in its current state is nothing compared to what they could do with exclusive merc bundles u pay RL money for…


(humaneBerry) #20

[quote=“subtleChain;10434”]
Playing two hours a day for 25 days seems fair in order to play as fragger? That sounds completely outrageous to me. Only the most hardcore of gamers have this kind of time anyway, and even I could play video games for two hours a day, I sure as he.ll wouldn’t spend them playing DB exclusively.

A case every hour or two isn’t satisfactory at all, especially since bronze+ cards or so rare. If you are going to implement a stupid progression system, at least make it so you get some kind satisfactory thing every play session, else people won’t come back.[/quote]

You get a completely free game. A game that we all want to do well and that means that the devs need an income. playing a game for 2hours a day for 25 days is not what i would consider outrageuos to unlock content for free.

I do understand your perspective that there are better things to monetize than playable toons (Dota does it really well) but for me it just doesnt seem like that big of a deal.
But then again I intend to spend real money on the stuff i want anyways.