This game is great, although...

(Haigen64) #1

This is just my opinion, of course anyone reading this will have a different one.
After participating in many betas, as well as alphas and watching a lot of games grow from those stages into final F2P games, my biggest fear about this game, is that since it’s in beta there’s still time for things to go horribly wrong.

I’m sure that the developers won’t be the ones pushing the button on this, but I feel like since this game has such a good F2P model currently, it might not make enough money, so a push for less free/in-game currency items will become a thing.
The model as it is now is pretty good, the amount of credits earned in each match could use an increase, that or up the mission amounts a tad. But otherwise, being able to purchase almost anything with in-game currency is great. Especially everything that’s affected by gameplay. Of course, it makes sense that having the elite cases which grant a higher chance of cosmetic items only not purchasable by credits, but so long as it’s only ever cosmetic.

What I guess I’m getting at is that I’d hate to see this game ever introduce mercs or loadouts which are only ever purchasable with real world currency and not in-game currency. I believe that would probably end up ruining a lot of what you guys have going for you.

tl;dr:

  • Credit system is great, could use a little boost
  • Having 100% of gameplay affecting stuff purchasable with credits is perfect
  • Keep up the great work.

p.s. Some sort of trading system via steam inventory might be cool for loadouts, I can see it being abused though.

(fraggyb) #2

I was told long ago by one of the devs that every merc/loadout will always be accessible with in game credits.

(Haigen64) #3

If that is true, then this game shouldn’t ever worry about being labelled p2w. The amount of cases I keep getting is really good, better than I thought it would be.

Another thing I should add is that I don’t want to see cases being “locked” (see: tf2, dota2, cs:go etc) where you have to buy keys to unlock them. I’m not implying that they are going to do that but I hope that it never happens.

(eucalyptusSwordfish) #4

I completely disagree. This game’s model is frankly one of the absolute worst in F2P games.

Loadout cards that drop randomly from cases which can be for classes you don’t own
Low credits/game
30-50 000 credits for one merc, or up to $10

I mean, I just don’t see how this could be seen as a good business model. I understand that everything can be unlocked for in game credits, but at what real cost? You’re looking at several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards, or dozens of cases (at an 80% lead, 15% iron, 3% bronze drop rate) with no guarantee that the random cards, of which there are plenty, will be the one you want, or even one you can use PLUS the fee to trade them up for another RANDOM card.

There’s simply no point to lead/iron because bronze is objectively better, so until you’re able to grind for long enough to trade up/get lucky gambling then you’re objectively worse than other players.

I mean, you could also spend $10 on a merc and $5 on a single case to roll for a card that you might be able to use, but that sort of cost is just appalling. I don’t understand how that sort of cost is justified - not even only by Dirty Bomb, cause there are other offenders out there too.

The absolute best F2P model on the market right now is Heroes of Newerth. All heroes are free and there’s no way to affect gameplay in any way whatsoever outside of a match. The prices for skins are still outrageous (around $10 for one) but at least it doesn’t actually matter. Loadouts are vital to performing optimally and to put them behind both a grindwall and a chancewall is just reprehensible.

Of course, I know plenty of people will disagree with me, saying things like “$10 isn’t a lot of money” or “But everything can be bought with credits” because they don’t understand the value of their own money or time.

Please, spend your money and time on anything other than a Nexon game.

(Haigen64) #5

I think that’s a bit extreme considering there are far worse ones out there. But okay. Opinions are opinions.

Yeah but eventually you can just trade them up? I don’t see a problem with that.
You can also just go get the exact bronze card you want. So what if you don’t get a silver/gold/cobalt skin?

I’ve stated myself that mercs are a tad expensive and the amount players get per match should be increased. Still, this game is only in beta. It’s a good time to get this info out there. Changes can and should be made to make this more beneficial for all.

Several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards? What. You do realize you get random card drops? If you’ve saved up for a merc, chances are you’ve found at least ONE lead card for them…
Even if you end up with dozens of cases who cares? The conversion rate is pretty cheap IMO considering that you can actually pick and choose which merc you want to get an upgrade for. At least it’s not completely random and a waste of credits.

Not really, I suggest taking a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkwjsYcJ6U

Not the best example if you’re comparing levels, but really, those who play longer and get better will beat people who don’t put much time into it at all.
Which is how nearly every video game works…

Manages to do really well with all default loadouts. It’s a matter of skill, the augments you get and weapons etc are only a small assist, it doesn’t affect it as much as you’d like to think. Most of the time it’s just nifty handy things that can help improve sections of gameplay but nothing stupidly over the top so that you’ll never do well without a loadout.

Or even better, don’t spend money on the game at all anyway? I’ve not spent a cent and I’ve got both the merc I like, and I’m just about to get enough for the bronze card I like (already have a random silver for the merc) and I’m only halfway to level 8. It’s not that bad.

(Amerika) #6

I have spent $40 I believe so far. All of which I did to support the devs and not because I felt as though I had to. I currently have every merc unlocked (but only play about 5), every bronze loadout I want for each one, 40 cases just sitting there and 110k in credits. I do not feel as though this game is ripping me off in any way or forcing me to pay. If I didn’t put in one cent I’d still have everything I want.

(Gi.Am) #7

Ok I do the opposite voice :wink: I have spend not a single € sofar.
The merc packs are not of interest for me, since I’m not interested enough in any of them. I bought Arty with the level up credits, and bought Bushwhacker, Nader and Kira with grind money (and already 80k in the bank again since there is no merc that peaks my interest for now).
I traded up a few cards just to see how it works and to get smg loadouts for proxy and aura faster. I was thinking of buying a bronze for kira but decided that trading up a few cards with a bit of help from RNGuses would be cheaper. It was. Got a Dreiss loadout on my second try not the one I wanted but servicable.

Elitecases I don’t miss blue is not my color the original gold is to tacky admitably the new gold looks nice as does silver. but not good enough for now to spend money on it.

most my cards I use are iron I think some are lead some are bronze. I do have silver and gold cards but I decide on weapons first and have no problems choosing a lead loadout over a gold one.

Don’t get me wrong every F2P I like will see some money from me sooner or later (and DB allready earned it in my book) but for now I hold it off waiting for more interesting cosmetics/custom stuff.

I spend nothing (except time) and I don’t feel like the game forces me to anything or that I’m not competive in anyway (except for my lack in skill)

(triteTongs) #8

So you want a game where you don’t have to pay a single penny and get everything for free the second you start the game?

Well, not even paid games do that.

  • Evolve? Characters behind a grind to unlock wall.
  • BF4? Behind an achievement to unlock wall. Also behind a kill/score to unlock wall.
  • Payday 2? Behind an achievement to unlock wall. And behind a 5 dollar DLC wall.
  • GTA Online? Behind a grind for cash to unlock wall. 60 dollar game, still have to grind to get a house to play heists.
  • Borderlands? Grind to level up. Farm for legendary.
  • Killing floor? Grind to level up. Being a higher level lets you do higher difficulties.
    -Dungeon Defenders? Grind to level up. Higher difficulties required you to sit AFK in other players games to farm for gear that could help you.
(Ghosthree3) #9

Lmao, what? I had to pay $100 for that.

(Serious Sam) #10

You’re looking at several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards, or dozens of cases (at an 80% lead, 15% iron, 3% bronze drop rate) with no guarantee that the random cards, of which there are plenty, will be the one you want, or even one you can use PLUS the fee to trade them up for another RANDOM card.
[/quote]

I have no idea why you would think it would take very long at all to unlock things.

-3 missions per 3 hours w/ minimum reward of 500 credits each
-Daily mission bonus of 250 each for first win, stopwatch game, and objective game
-Random case drops that are more than plentiful enough to give you an acceptable loadout

Or you can pay ~12k for a bronze loadout of your choice from the store, for the preferred loadout.

I have 12 hours in this game so far, and have unlocked one merc and three bronze loadouts plus some extra random cards without the use of real money

So, if you’re being efficient but incredibly unlucky with your missions, you get
3 missions x 500 credits = 1500 / 3 hours * 12 hours of play, lets say = 6000 credits
If that were 3 hours a day
750/day * 4 days = 3000 more credits
9000 credits in four days, assuming only one set of missions per day and the minimum reward for those missions every time. That’s almost 16k per week, which is a merc every two-three weeks (24-36 hours of play, much less than some people and not unreasonable for a semi-dedicated casual player)

Don’t forget that cases drop plentifully, randomly, and for free.
500 per lead tradeup = 1500 per iron
1000 per iron tradeup = 3 x 1500 + 1000 = 5500 per bronze loadout
Or 12k from the store.
That’s less than a day’s worth of playing (or four hours of playing for the one from the store, assuming 3 hours / day), and it would take longer than a day to get that many cases. Again, it’s also assuming you have terrible luck and only get lead cards.

This is also disregarding the 24k credits you get for getting to level 4.

I like math, math likes me. And today, math says that the credit/loadout system in the game is just fine.

(watsyurdeal) #11

Are you a car bro? Cause you just got wrecked

(Amerika) #12

You’re looking at several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards, or dozens of cases (at an 80% lead, 15% iron, 3% bronze drop rate) with no guarantee that the random cards, of which there are plenty, will be the one you want, or even one you can use PLUS the fee to trade them up for another RANDOM card.
[/quote]

I have no idea why you would think it would take very long at all to unlock things.

-3 missions per 3 hours w/ minimum reward of 500 credits each
-Daily mission bonus of 250 each for first win, stopwatch game, and objective game
-Random case drops that are more than plentiful enough to give you an acceptable loadout

Or you can pay ~12k for a bronze loadout of your choice from the store, for the preferred loadout.

I have 12 hours in this game so far, and have unlocked one merc and three bronze loadouts plus some extra random cards without the use of real money

So, if you’re being efficient but incredibly unlucky with your missions, you get
3 missions x 500 credits = 1500 / 3 hours * 12 hours of play, lets say = 6000 credits
If that were 3 hours a day
750/day * 4 days = 3000 more credits
9000 credits in four days, assuming only one set of missions per day and the minimum reward for those missions every time. That’s almost 16k per week, which is a merc every two-three weeks (24-36 hours of play, much less than some people and not unreasonable for a semi-dedicated casual player)

Don’t forget that cases drop plentifully, randomly, and for free.
500 per lead tradeup = 1500 per iron
1000 per iron tradeup = 3 x 1500 + 1000 = 5500 per bronze loadout
Or 12k from the store.
That’s less than a day’s worth of playing (or four hours of playing for the one from the store, assuming 3 hours / day), and it would take longer than a day to get that many cases. Again, it’s also assuming you have terrible luck and only get lead cards.

This is also disregarding the 24k credits you get for getting to level 4.

I like math, math likes me. And today, math says that the credit/loadout system in the game is just fine.[/quote]

What is funny about this is that I typically get missions done sometimes within an hour or an hour and a half at most (FU broken Waterboy). Combine that with credits from playing, credits from missions, the daily “first” credits and you end up with a ton pretty quickly. So if you play for an hour and then come back in another couple hours and play another hour or hour and a half with new missions you’re making some serious bank in a relatively short amount of time.

But hopefully people are playing because they are having fun. Not because they want to grind for unlocks. I have no need to play for a while and I’d still have my next few mercs covered…but I still do because the game is fun.

(triteTongs) #13

Lmao, what? I had to pay $100 for that.[/quote]

You need a 10 car garage to do heists, those houses can get pretty expensive.
Not to mention you have to progress through the gta online story to do it.

My point is this.
Even when you pay for something it’s not immediately available.
Just like Dirty Bomb Mercs. If they handed out all the mercs at once, I’d honestly be pretty bored after the first month.

(Ghosthree3) #14

[quote=“triteTongs;26178”]You need a 10 car garage to do heists, those houses can get pretty expensive.
Not to mention you have to progress through the gta online story to do it.[/quote]

No I mean the game cost me $100 on steam.

(Szakalot) #15

You’re looking at several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards, or dozens of cases (at an 80% lead, 15% iron, 3% bronze drop rate) with no guarantee that the random cards, of which there are plenty, will be the one you want, or even one you can use PLUS the fee to trade them up for another RANDOM card.
[/quote]

I have no idea why you would think it would take very long at all to unlock things.

-3 missions per 3 hours w/ minimum reward of 500 credits each
-Daily mission bonus of 250 each for first win, stopwatch game, and objective game
-Random case drops that are more than plentiful enough to give you an acceptable loadout

Or you can pay ~12k for a bronze loadout of your choice from the store, for the preferred loadout.

I have 12 hours in this game so far, and have unlocked one merc and three bronze loadouts plus some extra random cards without the use of real money

So, if you’re being efficient but incredibly unlucky with your missions, you get
3 missions x 500 credits = 1500 / 3 hours * 12 hours of play, lets say = 6000 credits
If that were 3 hours a day
750/day * 4 days = 3000 more credits
9000 credits in four days, assuming only one set of missions per day and the minimum reward for those missions every time. That’s almost 16k per week, which is a merc every two-three weeks (24-36 hours of play, much less than some people and not unreasonable for a semi-dedicated casual player)

Don’t forget that cases drop plentifully, randomly, and for free.
500 per lead tradeup = 1500 per iron
1000 per iron tradeup = 3 x 1500 + 1000 = 5500 per bronze loadout
Or 12k from the store.
That’s less than a day’s worth of playing (or four hours of playing for the one from the store, assuming 3 hours / day), and it would take longer than a day to get that many cases. Again, it’s also assuming you have terrible luck and only get lead cards.

This is also disregarding the 24k credits you get for getting to level 4.

I like math, math likes me. And today, math says that the credit/loadout system in the game is just fine.[/quote]

good post and you didn’t even include base fee of 12$/min

(Nail) #16

lol, Heroes of Newerth had over 500,00 paid accounts for 2 years before it went F2P

(Serious Sam) #17

You’re looking at several hours of gameplay for a single merc with no loadout cards, or dozens of cases (at an 80% lead, 15% iron, 3% bronze drop rate) with no guarantee that the random cards, of which there are plenty, will be the one you want, or even one you can use PLUS the fee to trade them up for another RANDOM card.
[/quote]

I have no idea why you would think it would take very long at all to unlock things.

-3 missions per 3 hours w/ minimum reward of 500 credits each
-Daily mission bonus of 250 each for first win, stopwatch game, and objective game
-Random case drops that are more than plentiful enough to give you an acceptable loadout

Or you can pay ~12k for a bronze loadout of your choice from the store, for the preferred loadout.

I have 12 hours in this game so far, and have unlocked one merc and three bronze loadouts plus some extra random cards without the use of real money

So, if you’re being efficient but incredibly unlucky with your missions, you get
3 missions x 500 credits = 1500 / 3 hours * 12 hours of play, lets say = 6000 credits
If that were 3 hours a day
750/day * 4 days = 3000 more credits
9000 credits in four days, assuming only one set of missions per day and the minimum reward for those missions every time. That’s almost 16k per week, which is a merc every two-three weeks (24-36 hours of play, much less than some people and not unreasonable for a semi-dedicated casual player)

Don’t forget that cases drop plentifully, randomly, and for free.
500 per lead tradeup = 1500 per iron
1000 per iron tradeup = 3 x 1500 + 1000 = 5500 per bronze loadout
Or 12k from the store.
That’s less than a day’s worth of playing (or four hours of playing for the one from the store, assuming 3 hours / day), and it would take longer than a day to get that many cases. Again, it’s also assuming you have terrible luck and only get lead cards.

This is also disregarding the 24k credits you get for getting to level 4.

I like math, math likes me. And today, math says that the credit/loadout system in the game is just fine.[/quote]

good post and you didn’t even include base fee of 12$/min

[/quote]

What can I say? Math doesn’t lie.

(triteTongs) #18

[quote=“Nail;26225”][quote=“eucalyptusSwordfish;25227”]
The absolute best F2P model on the market right now is Heroes of Newerth. All heroes are free and there’s no way to affect gameplay in any way whatsoever outside of a match. The prices for skins are still outrageous (around $10 for one) but at least it doesn’t actually matter. Loadouts are vital to performing optimally and to put them behind both a grindwall and a chancewall is just reprehensible.

[/quote]

lol, Heroes of Newerth had over 500,00 paid accounts for 2 years before it went F2P[/quote]

Didn’t know that about HoN.
TF2 also had paid accounts way before it went F2P.

Sort of invalidates both games for “F2P” models.

I may shamelessly steal this to post on the steam forums if you don’t mind. This argument feels rock solid enough to copypaste in the countless “CREDITS ARE HARD TO GET” threads, yeah?

(Nail) #19

[quote=“triteTongs;26262”][quote=“Nail;26225”][quote=“eucalyptusSwordfish;25227”]
The absolute best F2P model on the market right now is Heroes of Newerth. All heroes are free and there’s no way to affect gameplay in any way whatsoever outside of a match. The prices for skins are still outrageous (around $10 for one) but at least it doesn’t actually matter. Loadouts are vital to performing optimally and to put them behind both a grindwall and a chancewall is just reprehensible.

[/quote]

lol, Heroes of Newerth had over 500,00 paid accounts for 2 years before it went F2P[/quote]

Didn’t know that about HoN.
TF2 also had paid accounts way before it went F2P.

Sort of invalidates both games for “F2P” models.

[/quote]

yep but they’re the 2 most touted for how F2P should be

(Szakalot) #20

[quote=“triteTongs;26262”][quote=“Nail;26225”][quote=“eucalyptusSwordfish;25227”]
The absolute best F2P model on the market right now is Heroes of Newerth. All heroes are free and there’s no way to affect gameplay in any way whatsoever outside of a match. The prices for skins are still outrageous (around $10 for one) but at least it doesn’t actually matter. Loadouts are vital to performing optimally and to put them behind both a grindwall and a chancewall is just reprehensible.

[/quote]

lol, Heroes of Newerth had over 500,00 paid accounts for 2 years before it went F2P[/quote]

Didn’t know that about HoN.
TF2 also had paid accounts way before it went F2P.

Sort of invalidates both games for “F2P” models.

I may shamelessly steal this to post on the steam forums if you don’t mind. This argument feels rock solid enough to copypaste in the countless “CREDITS ARE HARD TO GET” threads, yeah?

[/quote]

please include the 12$/min base fee into the calculations, as it decreases the grind for each merc by many hours.