They added in more rng so sniping this patch! Sniping is now even harder and even less viable!

(bumbertyr) #41

I’ll need to find the list again, however vassili landed himself at number 7 for easiest snipers to use of 2015. So good that they’re making him harder to use.

(Zenity) #42

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;16282”][quote=“Zenity;16281”][quote=“chickenNwaffles;16278”]
So explain to me how grenades, revive invincibility, overpowered lmgs, and airstrikes offer “fair” counterplay that is less frustrating than getting shot in the head by a sniper[/quote]

No big difference, all of these things could be dropping out of the meta at any time and the game wouldn’t necessarily be worse off for it (aside from revive invincibility, no idea why you dropped that in there). It would be foolish for any competitive player to become overly attached to any of those mechanics, especially considering that the available merc pool is going to grow continuously.[/quote]

There you are wrong, these will not be dropping out of the meta anytime soon, however, Vassili will be. His instagib ability takes far more skill than any fragger nade could ever, but fro some reason people are intent on removing all the skill from sniping, while things like fragger nades are somehow “ok”.[/quote]

People complain about Fragger’s nades at least as much as they complain about snipers. I’m not saying it’s going to happen anytime soon, but it can happen any time. If you get too hung up on these things, it will only cause you grief.

(etherealJar) #43

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;16278”]

So explain to me how grenades, revive invincibility, overpowered lmgs, and airstrikes offer “fair” counterplay that is less frustrating than getting shot in the head by a sniper, because you had poor movement and gamesense. It takes a lot of skill to snipe, more than any of those “fair” abilities combined. The only real counterplay to a sniper is not being bad at the game. Learning how to abuse mechanics like aimpunch, crouch spamming, and frag nades are the reasons why sniping is too weak in this game. The only thing that kept Vassili even remotely viable in the competitive scene was the fact that he instagibbed on a headshot.[/quote]

Yep, because its sure as hell easy to counterplay a Vasili who is only peeking :^). Nades and strikes have cooldowns, not sure why you would even compare these to snipers rifles that shoot every second or so.

However, it requires too much effort to make Vassili a half worthwhile choice in a organized 5v5, as you can just play Fragger and have half of the skill, but still perform better than a Vassili. Afterall, the only thing Vassili provides is killing potential, and it takes a whole lot more effort to kill things as Vassili than it does why say, Fragger/nader/sky/aura/any fucking merc…

Get gud.

Things like jump-sniping and aggressive sniping kept the skill and effectiveness in sniping. However, with this patch, the skill ceiling for Vassili has been lowered tremendously, to the point where he is just not a viable pick. Please don’t post your ignorant opinions about competitive sniping when all of you have NEVER sniped in a high level, organized 5v5 before.

First of all, you are misusing the term skill ceiling. Secondly, nobody cares about your “high level competitive” sniping. You are butthurt and ignorant. The reason why Vasili won’t be viable in competitive is because he is really only good at killing. It’s just like TF2 Sniper, where he is a situational pick in competitive but that’s about it.

(citronJet) #44

Its very easy for a rifler to contest a sniper, even at long ranges. If your nade/strike is on cooldown its still viable to spam them down in between shots. If they miss that first shot and dont return to cover, youll most likely kill them.

First of all, you are misusing the term skill ceiling. Secondly, nobody cares about your “high level competitive” sniping. You are butthurt and ignorant. The reason why Vasili won’t be viable in competitive is because he is really only good at killing. It’s just like TF2 Sniper, where he is a situational pick in competitive but that’s about it.

The point of threads like this is to point out when something is imbalanced, and having a discussion about it. As of now Vasilli seems too weak when compared to any other pure slaying class. Saying shit like “butthurt and ignorant” really just makes you look stupid.

(adeto) #45

You would be right, if imbalanced was equal to useless… But it isn’t. Vassili(and most snipers) is just useless in a gamemode(SW) with respawn cycles, he can kill a dude with all the high damage rifles in the world but 2 seconds later that person will respawn, snipers simply can’t keep up with the speed of the game atm. Thats why he is such an effective situational merc as when he is defending a plant and can take out a Proxy when killing that Proxy is 100% crucial, but the rest of the game getting that 1 specific frag isn’t as significant. Now when Execution comes and there are CS like rounds where you don’t respawn, there Vassili might be a really strong pick because gibbed kills would mean so much more. Which is why AWPing in CS is so useful, it actually means something significant when you take someone out of the round.

tl;dr when Execution mode comes, all the sniper only heroes will piss off to that gamemode and everyone will be happy

(etherealJar) #46

The point is to provide constructive criticism. Do you actually believe that OP was being reasonable with his posts? They are biased, filled with bad grammar and, yep, butthurt. You are the stupid one if you think that SD is looking for feedback like this. You can’t expect them to balance a game by focusing on your favorite Merc. Vasilli never was and never will be a “pure slaying class”. He is there to spot enemies and deal with tanks.

(chickenNwaffles) #47

[quote=“Choowkee;16583”][quote=“Lunacide;16292”]

The point of threads like this is to point out when something is imbalanced, and having a discussion about it. As of now Vasilli seems too weak when compared to any other pure slaying class. Saying shit like “butthurt and ignorant” really just makes you look stupid.
[/quote]

The point is to provide constructive criticism. Do you actually believe that OP was being reasonable with his posts? They are biased, filled with bad grammar and, yep, butthurt. You are the stupid one if you think that SD is looking for feedback like this. You can’t expect them to balance a game by focusing on your favorite Merc. Vasilli never was and never will be a “pure slaying class”. He is there to spot enemies and deal with tanks. [/quote]

Spotting and dealing with tanks? Are we playing some moba version of eye spy?

Vassilli will always be a pure slaying class that revolves around his ability to instagib. Simple as that. There is no “spotting” role to fill. Everyone spots on your team. And it’s pretty dam easy to spot, so the hearbeat’s usefulness is pretty minimal. Because if Vassili’s very limited capabilities, he is more of a situational merc - a merc that is too crappy to be played all the time, but not that crappy (Vas, sky, arty, nader).

Am I really being that unreasonable with my simple request that scope-sway should be removed? Let’s be real for a minute. Have you ever sniped in anything but a pub? If so, against who? I can’t imagine that you are a very competent sniper, to say the least, so your opinion about sniping can be taken with literally a grain of salt.

With that being said, the added scope-sway was simply a change that only limits the skill ceiling of Vassili. To be quite honest, this change really only affects good players - ones who can actually move while shoot; players in pubs are relatively unaffected by the nerf. Limiting things like jump-sniping only makes not only less skillful, but less viable. Vassili was already barely viable in competitive play, so this nerf almost put the nail in the coffin for our sniper friend.

Personally I would think twice about nerfing the class that takes the most skill to instabig with. Just a thought.

(athleticInspiration) #48

  1. ChickenNWaffles, More people would take you seriously if you stopped using Ad hominems(Attacking the person) instead of the argument.

  2. Just because a person does not play against you or your friends in PUGS does not mean that they don’t have the skill or aim to do so, therefore your argument is invalid as currently this community is too small to think that your group of friends are the only talented group in the game. People also play games with these very same “good players” you continue to address and do just fine. So my question to you is why do you use personal attacks on skill to justify your argument? Its invalid, move on and come up with arguments that address the issues, not your ego.

  3. I agree that the sway nerf should be removed, however, I believe your ego as well as your arguments should be addressed and changed. If you don’t begin to be able to formulate arguments that address the issues and not the people most individuals will not listen to your opinion no matter how “good” at the game you believe you are.

(chickenNwaffles) #49

[quote=“athleticInspiration;16726”]1. ChickenNWaffles, More people would take you seriously if you stopped using Ad hominems(Attacking the person) instead of the argument.

  1. Just because a person does not play against you or your friends in PUGS does not mean that they don’t have the skill or aim to do so, therefore your argument is invalid as currently this community is too small to think that your group of friends are the only talented group in the game. People also play games with these very same “good players” you continue to address and do just fine. So my question to you is why do you use personal attacks on skill to justify your argument? Its invalid, move on and come up with arguments that address the issues, not your ego.

  2. I agree that the sway nerf should be removed, however, I believe your ego as well as your arguments should be addressed and changed. If you don’t begin to be able to formulate arguments that address the issues and not the people most individuals will not listen to your opinion no matter how “good” at the game you believe you are.
    [/quote]

You are entirely right, but when people seem to overlook my actual arguments and just say that I am butthurt and move on, I get a little upset. I almost never use personal attacks to justify arguments unless there is an ounce of truth involved. It may sound egotistical, but when people on the forums say "I have only sniped in pubs. ", “I am not a good sniper”, and “Sniping is easy (when they only have sniped in pubs)” and then try to justify that this nerf was fine, it just sounds insane to me. I feel like I have a pretty good perspective on Vassili’s current state as I have played the living hell out of him in both pubs, pugs, and scrims (not something everyone here can say they have).

I formulate all of my arguments based on my experience as a player, and not through personal attacks. But I still will defend myself when people try to insinuate an argument by calling me unreasonable, biased, and butthurt.

(yakcyll) #50

The best thing you can do is not argue on public forums to be honest. It’s a painful experience and pretty sure that there has been quite a lot of heat being brought up about sniping that the devs are aware of it. I would sure as hell rather they spent more time finding an appropriate adjustment to the whole idea of sniping than just move on and keep it as it is though, but it’s entirely up to them.

chickenNwaffles, you gotta understand that being sniped feels inherently cheap to slower players. You did (seemingly) nothing wrong and you suddenly are dead. You realize you got sniped, so you try to find him, but you still get to get shot before you can shoot back a few times. You try sneaking up, but your target either moves between places or is just outright faster than you, so you can’t really do anything. Current maps on certain stages make it painful for newer players to move forward against snipers in pubs, hence the outrage. The solution they prepared for me feels like a band-aid for something potentially disastrous, so I doubt they’ll just leave it like that. Sure it sucks right now, but unless more people voice their desire for a better adjustment, then I don’t think it’s gonna be a priority.

I should be calling everyone a nub-l2p-ster to be honest, 'cause I just can’t fucking stand how some people just cry before trying to solve the issue with adjustments to their own play, but won’t really help the matter in the long run; too many good games died before because the casual scene didn’t develop at all.

(Nail) #51

While this may not apply to you, and I certainly apologize if it does, I find most snipers whine about nerfs because they’re bloody useless at anything else

(Kroad) #52

it’s certainly possible that snipers aren’t as good with other mercs as snipers require twitch aim while most of the others require tracking. Likewise, people that are good at tracking could also be not as good with sniper.

It makes sense for twitch aimers to not be happy when the one merc that requires twitch aim is nerfed. If there was only one merc requiring tracking, and that got nerfed, its users would also complain.

Although chicken is also good at tracking so this isn’t relevant here.

(shroudedBypass) #53

Impeding aim in a movement based shooter like DB is just retarded, sway shouldn’t be there in the first place. If anything, reduce the damage - vasili in his current form is even campier than usual with the requirement he be standing still to shoot. He plays better as a quake-like railgunner, the game is designed around jumping off objects and quick shooting.

In his current form he promotes a very negative campy style of ‘standing at the farthest possible region of the map and pick off people who cant see you’. This is annoying to play against and frankly not that fun to play as - give him back the mobility and reduce the damage output to the body perhaps, increasing the skill ceiling and putting more of a focus on headshots.

Remember, with good map design a seemingly overpowered class such as sniper will only ever be a situational option, in the extraction gamemode perhaps he will come into his own, provided the above is addressed.

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(amberHarp) #54

Huh? Thats pretty big nerf if you ask me. I think that they should leave vassili as he is. Of course he is very deadly but you need to have dem skillz. For me it havent changed much, might be cuz im a stationary turret when i snipe :smiley:

(arcane) #55

I’ve just started playing DirtyBomb and Sniping is by far my favourite class so far, the sway is a little annoying but I didn’t know the game before it was implemented so cannot really comment. But I would prefer it without if I am perfectly honest.